thought it was going to be ET, phoning us.
OT: Major Space Discovery
In general, meeting an alien race does not end well for mankind, although the species seems to always (sometimes barely) survive insurmountable odds at the end. Personally I'd be quite happy with 0 contact between us and extraterrestrials for the rest of my life.
Correct, if an intelligent alien life has the means and technology to travel the vast reaches of space they will have the means to sweep us away like dirt (*if they so choose).
that came from space after the Big Bang was a bunch of aliens saying: "What was that noise?"
How this comment hasn't generated more upvotes is mine bottling.
what happens when your thoughts get all trapped up like in a bottle.
For all intensive purposes, I was just being a smart alex.
it was still funny.
I was having an acceptable Monday afternoon. Following a less-than-stellar night's sleep, I've recovered pretty well and looking forward to a nice afternoon. BUT, then you remind me of how much I miss Stroh's beer and the whole day is shot.
Thanks a lot, ass.
Fetch me an ice- cold, Fire-Brewed Strohs!
Stop being such a pre-Madonna and accept the correction with grace.
Intents and purposes... Just sayin. Don't make me go Nukular.
which is a kinda 4th-dimensional Möbius Band that passes through itself without the existence of a hole. Or something like that....
You're opinion is moo in this case...
It's a moo point . . .
At least moo points are audible, unlike the popular mute point.
I'd choose "moot", but at this point, the point may be moo.
I could care less what you think.
So you care some?
After we win the National Championship, let's invent the Big (Pos)Bang.
There's no evidence to prove that they don't exist.
Dantonio discovered this 5 years ago on his recruiting trip to Jupiter.
Thought it was Uranus...
All that for a three star that was victorious against us 75% of his time in college.
They can see a radio frequency from 13.8 trillion years ago that originated from who knows how far away but they can't find a 777 plane here on earth.
Yup that certainly changes everything!
It's a thousand times more accurate.
The same people are definitely in charge of both searches
Sorry forgot the /s but then again so did you (I hope)
Jerry Seinfeld: "I can't believe we can land a man on the moon.....and taste my coffee!!"
I was actually quite afraid that we were on the verge of an intergalactic war.
...better name him Ender.
It's St. Patricks Day. We are on the verge of an intergalactice kegger.
Are we hosting the Kegger down here?
Uranus sounds your your anus....get it!
don't get it...
In English what are you saying?
Joking. But no seriously, but us ignorant folks. What does this mean and why is it a big deal?
This doesn't sound like any of the things mentioned in the post from last week.
like we had all this information last week. Last week, it was just an announcement, I think, that THIS announcement was coming today. I compare it to a commercial break early during the prime time evening...."A story that could SAVE YOUR LIFE...tune in at 11."
As I understand it, it means that there was something that happened before the Big Bang. Prior to the BB, a ripple in the space-time continuum (i.e., everything that is) basically caused everything that would become the universe to expand at a mind-bendingly fast rate. Like an electron becoming the size of the galaxy in a space of time so small it could barely be measured with our most precise instruments. That expansion is called "inflation". Only after that inflation did the BB occur.
This has been theorized, but never seen directly. I'm guessing it could have huge ramifications for quantum mechanics, general relativity, dark matter/energy, etc., but what those ramifications are we don't know yet. Now we'll also be able to look at the gravitational waves, make much better calculations of the rate of inflation, and get better ideas on what could have caused it and what that says about the nature of the universe.
No, inflation does not predate the big bang... inflation was a phase that lasted a fraction of a second after the big bang. This discovery appears to be confirmation of the inflation theory and says nothing of what (if anything) lead to the big bang.
I was going off memory of one of the first theories re: inflation. Sorry.
As far as not saying anything as to what lead to the big bang, can we really know that yet? Who knows what discoveries this might ultimately lead to? According to the linked article:
"Most of the hundred or so models that have been spawned by Dr. Guth’s original vision suggest that inflation, once started, is eternal. Even as our own universe settled down to a comfortable homey expansion with atoms, stars and planets, the rest of the cosmos will continue blowing up, spinning off other bubbles here and there endlessly, a concept known as the multiverse."
Wouldn't that be at least some aspect of saying what lead to the big bang?
...if String Theory holds true. Interesting question is whether a theory of branes could be shown as consistent or inconsistent with the findings of gravitational waves found here. Not sure how much String Theory is implicated here.
Hold on...(rustle, rustle)...Okay, found my weed.
This essentially proves the inflation theory of the universe. Which states that the universe, at the big bang, expanded all at once at many time the speed of light. This is why the universe is uniform in terms of temperature and makeup. This lends creedance to the mutli-universe theory, because our universe had to have expanded in something, so it stands to reason that there are other universes also expanding in whatever this void is. So that is kind of a big deal.
This discovery basically confirms the Big Bang theory.
I feel like there is a "second lead" in this story which was buried. The speed of light was exceeded... or theorized to have been exceeded. Symantecs as far as I am considered.
What repurcussions are there within physics if light is no longer considered the universal speed limit?
for particles but not "space"? Whatever that means
So did space not exist before the Big Bang? And does that mean space went from 0 to infinity, at faster than the speed of light, or does space end where matter ends?
I agree . . . "what" exactly went faster than the speed of light?
So i get that a period of expansion such as inflation could result in a more heterogenous universe than we would otherwise expect were we not able to look that far back.
What I don't understand about your comment is how the theory of inflation lends any more credence to the multiverse theory than the knowledge that our universe is currently expanding (regardless of how it expanded in the first trillionth of a trillionth of a trillionth of a second.) Doesn't the same logic apply? It must be expanding into something, therefore possibly a multiverse?
All i'm asking is how this discovery adds to the multiverse theory?
The signal is probably just a disgruntled team member with an electric can opener.
Not quite as cool as I was expecting, though.
Are your serious? This is easily one of the more significant scientific discoveries of modern time.
Did we win?
The aliens took us down.
At least it wasn't the Bug People.
Great video here of Stanford Professor Andrei Linde hearing the news. He is a big name in the "theory" of inflation. Sorry can't imbed.
Not smart enough to know the difference between a champagne glass and a red wine glass though, huh? That's about all I took from that video.
Their brains are filled with too much science.
I'm impressed that his wife knew right away what it meant. She picked up the physics from years of being around him.
If you came to my door and said "We got McDowell!", my wife would be like "Who?"
Uh, she's a physicist.
You're not alone, the part where he says that he wants to believe because it's beautiful was my favorite.
Jesus christ, I know that most of us don't understand the implications of this or even how it works, but damn... this comment section looks more like YahooNews or CSM.
Maybe what we see are the sound waves from when God spoke.
Last week when this was being rumored, it was suggested this would be proof of the "multiverse" theory.
The NYT article suggests that this proves the universe is probably wider than we can see -- we only observe our little area that's 13.77 billion lightyears radius around us. But there could well be stuff beyond that 13.77 billion lightyear line -- frankly, trillions of lightyears or farther -- but we can't see it because it's too far away, light signals haven't had time to get from that stuff to us.
Is what the NYT describes the same thing as "multiverse"? I thought multiverse meant, multiple universes with potentially different laws of physics, sort of in separate 'places.' But the NYT description suggests one set of laws of physics, just something so big you can't see the whole thing.
Anyone who's more geek than me able to explain?
Gravity waves might perhaps be the signature of the "collision" or other interaction of other realities that spawned ours.
The other thing is that the inflation appears to have moved at multiples of light speed, at least for a relatively short time early on. For one thing, the radius of the observable universe is NOT 13.77 billion light-years. The radius is actually around 45 billion light years, so this has been a bit of a puzzle. Confirmation of an inflationary model with faster-than-light speed provides a potential solution to this issue.
I find this exciting because apparently faster-than-light speed is possible, at least under very specific physical conditions, perhaps via the warping of space-time.
How does the observable universe have a radius of 45 billion light years? I thought since the universe is only 13.77 billion years old, we can only see 13.77 billion light years away from us, no?
But it has to do with the nature of electromagnetism and early-universe behavior. The 13.77 billion number applies if only classical physics were at work. But there's more to the story. From Wiki:
Sometimes astrophysicists distinguish between the visible universe, which includes only signals emitted since recombination—and the observable universe, which includes signals since the beginning of the cosmological expansion
"Recombination" having to do with photons, meaning that maybe LIGHT can only be seen from 13.77 billion light-years away, but the comoving distance to the CMB is 45-46-ish billion light-years.
Ahh, thank you for that explanation.
I was just going to post this same exact comment. You beet me to it. Koodoes.
Like I said somewhere in that thread last week, this is something the average person doesn't really care about. The scientists believe it is important and I believe them that it is, but this news is just "meh" for me. I was hoping for something way more interesting.
I kind of agree. Whereas this is plenty interesting, how beneficial is it? What will this discovery do for mankind other than having something else to teach in universities?
Helps increase knowledge of how the universe in which we lived formed? I don't know I think that's pretty valuable.
So let's say we knew exactly how he universe was formed. What does that do for us? How do we use that knowledge in a useful way?
I think having a better understanding of how the universe was formed is useful and interesting in and of itself. From what I gather, you're looking for something that cures cancer in a flash or makes fossil based fuels obsolete or something and those types disocveries are the only ones that are useful.
I think that if we're smart enough to figure things like this out, that's surely a good sign that we can make strides in these more "practical" areas. It's part of the scientific process and the push towards achieiving more knowledge. These types of intellectual curiousocities are what generates interest in science.
It's not that every discovery needs to "cure cancer in a flash" but there is a difference between something that is interesting and something that is useful. Many are both, but to me, this seems of very little use to society. There is lots and lots of science breakthroughs that can help out the human race in a big way. I just don't see that with this.
Nothing is more esoteric and mind-bending than quantum theory. When proposed, it didn't seem very useful. Now we have all sorts of technology based on it. We are on the threshold of quantum computing on a desktop, which will blow your mind. These don't seem like useful discoveries until they become incredibly useful. I have to agree with others, though, that seeking knowledge for its own end is at the core of what makes us worth the real estate we inhabit. Curiosity is at the core of a meaningful, content life.
"Could anything at first sight seem more impractical than a body which is so small that its mass is an insignificant fraction of the mass of an atom of hydrogen?"
-- J.J. Thomson.
From a very practical, nuts-and-bolts, engineering, here-on-the-ground-right-now standpoint, you're right.
What is impossible to know today is what practical discoveries that might be made with this information a century or two from now. When Einstein was initially developing his theories, the notion of harnessing the atom, for good or ill, was far-fetched, and even Albert himself declared in 1934 that “there is not the slightest indication” that atomic energy was possible. Just a decade or so later, he was proven wrong.
This is why it's crazy to cut back funding of basic scientific research: it's impossible to predict just what discovery will lead to what breakthrough engineering achievement.
I'm not saying you're wrong; in fact, id agree that this doesn't produce anything immediately useful for the average person.
Nevertheless, this discovery expedites many more discoveries, many of which can lead to immense benefit! That's kinda the point: discovering nuclear fusion didn't mean anything until the bomb 10 years later, discovering . . . Ok, you get the point.
This discovery re-invents cosmology, which changes physics, which changes our beliefs. I hope that makes sense
Science at its purest form has no practical application. It is just discovery for the purpose of satiating our curiosity.
Passing a wire through a magnetic field resulting in a current used to be a bar trick by Ol' Man Faraday. Its kinda important now.
Engineering is the practical application of science.
I recommend StarTalk with Neil Degrasse Tyson.
When he derived his three laws that remain the bedrock of classical physics, he couldn't have imagined the advances in engineering and science that would follow. In the 280 years or so since he' died, transportation, communication, agriculture and even research itself have all become radically different - based on foundations he laid.
It may not be sexy or cool, it may not even be inspiring. But it is valuable, and it is important, in ways we cannot possibly imagine.
who turn to science for insights into where we came from...pretty cool stuff.
"Knowledge is good."
On a very practical basis, advances in the understanding of physics can and will have multiple and unknown applications. We just don't know what they are as we watch a basketball tournament in 2014. Nuclear medicine? Nuclear fusion as an infinite energy supply? Could be anything. Plus, it's just cool.
But the problem with that is humans DON'T know how the universe was formed (no, some god did not do it). No one will ever know. There are only theories and there is no way to know for sure how it was formed.
There are only theories and there is no way to know for sure how it was formed.
I don't think you understand what theory means in the context of a scientific theory versus layman's use of the term.
Well shit then.
Cool. Maybe now we can land a man on the moon for real.
NO CONSPIRACY THEORIES.
It's not a theory. BigJim24 from Cosmoquest Forum has scientifically proven that the landings were faked.
Apparently my wife subscribes to BigJim24's newsletter as she is in the camp of those who dont believe we've actually gone to the moon.
We have those on the board about the refs during every game.
I SO ALREADY KNEW THAT. DUH!!
I'm not a physicist, but last I heard, the existence of gravitation waves is the last aspect of Einstein's theory of general relativity that remains unconfirmed. So this discovery may have fixed that.
Good summary of the implications of this discovery, in more or less straigh forward language:
Its direct proof about what happened during the big bang and inflation, The Inflationary theory of the Big Bang has been around for ~30 years, and has a good deal of indirect evidence to back it up. This discovery directly confirms our current model as the correct model, and quashes a lot of possible competing theories. Its very similar to the Higgs Boson in that regards.
What this means, is that it limits the possibilities for what a theory of Quantum Gravity and a Theory of Everything look like and further allows theorist to focus their research. It also provides experimental data for those researcher to use to hone their models.
Edit: It also means that Dark Energy is real. Not what it is, only that it exists.
I actually get depressed reading stuff like this because it makes me realize how little I'll ever be able to understand about the mysteries of the universe.
Here, let me direct you to a Kate Upton thread:
That just makes me depressed about how little I'll ever be able to understand about women.
Here, let me point you to a Channing Tatum thread...
On my phone Mags...otherwise you'd be getting yet another up vote from me.
I feel your disappointment. I was hoping they discovered an organic molecule on Ganymede that would reverse male pattern baldness, cure knee arthritis, and make me irresistible to Salma Hayek.
Now, this astrophysics stuff is seriously exciting, perhaps one of the great discoveries, if it survives peer review, many of us will experience in our lifetime.
And while we are all jumping up and down, if Kate Upton walked into the room, big bang would have a very different meaning and direction, and inflation theory would...you know.
If you believe the scientific theories.
It was confirmed to 5-sigma (5 standard deviations) , so there's a 99.9999426697% chance of it being correct. I'll take those odds.
Can someone link to the RCMB thread where this is discussed?
No need for a link. It's just above the "Erections in Spokane" thread and a few below "The Pornstar thread." If you hit "The man with the 132-pound scrotum has died" thread, you've gone too far.
Don't forget about the "Bump when your wife is a b***h" thread.
Kinda what I was thinking. What other passionate sports blog in the country would have this kind of discussion? Yay us!
Next you're going to tell me we evolved from monkeys and mermaids.
In the last series of Star Trek the Next Generation?
As I understand it, this still does not explain why so many people find the show The Big Bang Theory funny. I assume our best minds are still trying to figure that one out.
Can we not go there again? There's lots of shows out there some find funny that others don't and vice versa. This is a dead topic and serves no purpose.
Yea but his comment was pretty funny! (Unlike that damn...oh sorry, nevermind)
I happen to find the show funny. Doesn't mean everyone does, and that's fine. I think I'm regarded as one of the funnier posters on here, but hey...not everyone needs to have the same sense of humor I do. I'm sure there's other comedies out there that some find funny that I don't, and that's fine too.
Its just dumb to have this fight over and over and over....
So not we're just left to answer what, or who, created the Big Bang?
I think that was John Smith. The Mormon guy, not the Pocahontas guy.
Wait, I thought it was John L. Smith. The hot piss he harps about is really a reference to the hot, dense state the universe was in immediately after the Big Bang.
a race of giant space ants is on their way to Earth and will soon enslave us all in their sugar caves.
It's never a bad time to stress that I welcome our new Ant Overlords.
I kid. Pretty cool discovery. Of all the tiny pieces that came from the bang, I'm glad I'm riding on this one.
Simpsons snippets ever!
I don't believe anything about space unless it comes from the mouth of Elon Musk.
I like astrophysics far more than I understand it. Does any know if this discovery could change the age of the universe? I know it was touched on in another post, but what I'm wondering is if this discovery will change how the age of the universe is calculated.
But it depends on what you mean by "age."
As far as we can tell the visible universe is around 14 billion years old. We know that because that's as far as we can see. Since it appears the theory of inflation has been proved and the universe expanded at faster than the speed of light just after the big bang, wouldn't that make the universe younger?
I read that this new discovery speaks to the universe growing faster than the speed of light up to when it was the size of a grapefruit. I don't think that would account for very many fewer light years
The speed of light limits the expansion rate of the universe. As I understand it space itself is expanding. It not about individual stars moving apart at a rate faster than the speed of light. Space has no mass so it can expand at a rate faster than light. This stuff is cool but also very confusing so I could be totally wrong.
I'm not an expert, but I don't think the speed of light limit has anything to do with whether objects have mass. Photons of light obviously travel at the speed of light and can't move faster. As I understand it, space itself, however, isn't moving through space (it IS space), so would not be limited by the speed of light. In other words, you can't travel down the road at faster than 35 mph, but there's no such limit on stretching the road itself.
There's also a theoretical particle called a tacheon that would travel faster than light. It would require additional energy to slow down, and could never slow below the speed of light. Sort of the inverse of our normal particles. There's no direct evidence of its existence, however, so not much relevance to it at this point.
No. Scientists had previously taken into account that the universe had expanded faster than the speed of light during inflation. That's why the observable universe centered around Earth is considered to be 46 billion light years in radius. This discovery doesn't change that.
"There's 70 billion people of Earth. Where are they hiding?"