I changed my opinion after reading some of the posts below. You are right.
I interpreted it as....
Everything that happened on the island was real. They all survived the plane crash. The only thing that wasn't real was the "flash sideways" in season 6. Christian said to Jack that all of them were dead, some died before you, some died after you. So basically that means they all didnt die in the plane crash.
Kate, Sawyer, Richard, Lepidus, Miles and Claire all made it off of the island and went home and lived their lives until they died.
Hurley and Ben stayed on the island protecting it until they died.
Jack dies in the forest after saving the island.
So the flash sideways was purgatory, not the island. All of their souls went to meet up after they died, but they all had to wait foreveryone to die before they could move on, because they all wanted to move on together.
The island events were all real, and they were all alive, only the flash sideways was purgatory.
Actually, none of it was real. It was a TV show. A good one.
The realization/epiphany was the understanding of where they were (purgatory), and each character had to come to terms with their death on their own before they could move on. So that's why no one explicitly said to another character hey do you remember we were on the island and now we're dead, because each person in order to move on had to come to terms on their own.
Some characters weren't ready to move on yet like Ben, while others refused to move on, like Eloise Hawking, which was why she tried to prevent Desmond from talking to Daniel because she didnt want him to "take her son," because she wasnt ready to move on yet, wanting to stay in purgatory with Daniel.
I have to say as someone who had low expectations coming in, it was well crafted and a good ending, bittersweet, but rewarding. It just sucks because now there's no more Lost.
I really dislike that the producers clamored the whole time that the Losties were not in purgatory...low and behold...they basically were.
I agree- apparently, they WERE in some sort of quasi-reality the entire time. But then that begs the question- what was/is reality on "LOST"? I think they're trying to show that there are/were multiple realities on the show, and by their successes and failures and collectivisim in the one "reality," they got to move on to what we'll call "heaven." You can absolutely make the case that the Island was their "purgatory' reality, and that their entire existences before the island were also their "purgatory" existence, and that the true "reality" was the sideways world, and . . . okay, my head hurts.
So why were they waiting for Jack?
They should've been waiting on whomever died last. That's where I was a little confused.
As his father said there, time didn't really have any meaning "there". Some died before him, some died after him. So, nothing is really taking place before or after something.
"My" speculation would be that they went about their sideways lives, until the last person in the mortal universe died, and then the motions that caused them to come together and remember why they had formed the reunion in the first place started to take place. Who died last? Hurley, Island Guardian? Aaron, baby? Can't say. But it probably doesn't matter.
I don't agree... I think the island was reality and the sideways world was "purgatory".
I was wrong. Island was real; sideways was "purgatory" or "meet-up place to go to heaven." I'd retract my post above, but it won't let me.
Yup, thanks guys for helping me clear my thoughts. It makes more sense now.
When the writers said that they were referring to the island, so technically they weren't lieing. But I believe they also said they weren't going to do anythign as crazy as time travel way back in season 1 or 2, so I guess some of it really is made up on the go. The one thing I don't get, now that we know the flash sideways was purgatory, is Faraday's explanation about how it was an alternate time line. Maybe that was just part of his experience in purgatory?
It was a very good, very unorganized final season.
I loved it, but wanted more!
It should've been a full 20+ season.
Because if I was ever in a Q&A with the producers, my question would be "what would you have done if it had been decided the show would end after season 7...8...10...?" Did they have any other plans?
after season three.
There was never going to be a season 7 +.
But ending in 2010 was arbitrary. They could have said 2011, 4 more seasons. Or 2009, 3. Or whatever. If they had another year, the end would have been the same, but what would they have done with the extra year? Or cut out, if given less time? Did they have plotlines that hit the cutting room floor, because there wasn't enough time? I'm curious.
I think the point was/is that there are all kinds of realities, and they created a utopia that they all get to go to in the end, which was the result of their island experiences and how they, collectively, "came through" or were interconnected by "the light" that they all share (and all of humanity shares) and they got to go to this utopia once they were enlightened in the sideways world.
That being said, there are obviously a lot of questions, but I'm not going to lie- I really liked it. I also thought it was beautifully shot and liked the story arc, and loved the music in this episode. It's kind of interesting, too, how Eloise Hawking/Widmore obviously knew that this was where it was headed and tried to prevent it. So, basically, my take is that the last scene was them all "moving on" into a "heaven" of sorts.
Also, oh my goodness were there some tear-jerking moments tonight. It may have gotten a bit dusty in my living room. When Sawyer and Juliette realized who they were; when Aaron was born; when Charlie realized that it was Claire; when we got to see Desmond and Penny, etc. . . just a lot of good stuff.
The teary moment when Jack told Hurley "I believe in you". I almost lost it
And also, the pure badassery of Jack saying to FLocke, "I'm going to kill you." I like how he just said it. Which took a huge pair, in my opinion, because at that point, Smokey/FLocke was still this utterly terrorizing, evil, and powerful entity that should scare the shit out of any living thing.
What happened to Michael and Walt? We literally saw every character except them I think.
I still enjoyed the show, but that was always in the back of my mind.
Most likely they just couldn't get the actors to agree to appear. It would have been nice to see them, and also Eko, but alas this show is not shot in a bubble and just like any other production, you can't force people to appear onteh show. On hope in my theory though is that Michael did appear on the Jimmy Kimble special, so it seems at the very least he was willing to do SOMETHING for the finale.
on the Jimmy Kimmel special that Walt grew so much they had to kind of write him out of the show because he couldn't pass for a kid anymore.
I didn't see that anyone responded with where Michael is, sorry if I missed it.
Michael is stuck on the island forever as penance for killing Anna Lucia & Libby, and unable to forgive himself / be forgiven for it. He "whispers" to others on the island now. We saw that in a previous episode this season, when he talks to Hurley.
As far as Walt goes, it's an easy explanation that the island didn't mean to him what it meant to everyone else. Maybe he met up with other people from a later time in his life for his "moving on?"
From what I understand:
Flight 815 crashed, and everyone didn't die. Everything that happened in our normal timeline, the island, leaving, the Oceanic 6, going back to the Island, these things all occured. When Jack dies at the end of the finale, he dies, and waits to go to heaven. Meanwhile, the people who escaped, we can assume that they went on to live their lives and will eventually die (Kate, Miles, etc).
This is why Christian Shepard tells Jack that he is dead, along with everyone else in the church and that they died in different times. The last scene in the church, along with the flash-sideways timeline is all from Jack's point of view. It is Jack's heaven, and the church is what Christian said, somewhere for them all to reunite before moving on to the afterlife, because the time they shared on the Island (which was real) was the most important time in their lives.
However, the show did not explain a lot of loose ends, and from I understand, the creators aren't planning to reveal anything in the next couple months, leaving us to debate about the details.
I completely agree with this. From your point I also believe what happened on the island did happen.
I am glad the producers did not answer everything. The show can now live on through debate on the loose ends.
This last episode was beautifully shot and the music was beautiful. I was choking up when Charlie reunited with Claire. Of the Oceanic 815 passengers Charlie was my favorite.
Perfect description. I love this ending. Really do. It will be easy for people that didn't pay attention to some important details to look at the last couple minutes and say "They were in pugatory the whole time." Obviously, that's not the case. The line that cinches it is the one you mentioned: when Christian says something along the lines of "They all died. Some before you, some long, long after".
I think the producers did such an amazing job on the ending that it made me forget about some pressing issues, such as:
wtf is the Island anyways? What is the origin of the Island? The producers seemed to have glossed over some of intricacies of the story, but they crafted a beautiful ending so that we would forget about these details haha
It was a special, mystical, magical island. It had some kind of healing properties. There were many parables to eden, if you'd like to go that route.
What else would you have wanted to be explained? Would you have wanted someone to come out and say "I am God. I created the island. It holds my special powers and I use it to give each of my beings the ultimate test before they can pass through my gates"
I, personally, would have found that tacky.
I think Jacob basically said what the island was...
Every character was flawed, and they were all suffering alone. They were brought to the island to find their purpose and to be together. Kate's name was crossed off of the list of candidates remember, not because she died but because she became a mother (to aaron) and thus fulfilled her purpose.
Jack became a man of faith and through his faith saved the island.
Each character was able to in some way come to terms with their flaw and they all found a purpose through one another and weren't alone anymore. The island healed them, and forced them to solve their problems or come to terms with the skeletons in their closets.
They all became a part of something greater than themselvesand were all ultimately able to find peace together in the afterlife.
It was never a story meant to tell the entire story about The Island. It was just one story about The Island. One of probably many stories that could be told about The Island. This particular story focused on Jack and Co. We learned as much about The Island through them and other periphery characters (Richard, Jacob), but in the end the story was about telling Jack and Co's story, not The Island's.
Speaking of the island...why did we see it at the bottom of the ocean at the beginning of the season yet it seems Jack stopped that from happening?
Are we supposed to assume that all was changed when Jack woke up on the rock?
The island had no business being on the bottom of the ocean in the Sideverse. If the Sideverse only existed as a creation by the people who had lived on the island, then putting the island at the bottom of the ocean seems like a big stretch, as that feature of the Sideverse serves no real purpose or meaning, and it would make far more sense for the island to simply not exist in the Sideverse. If the Sideverse does have tangible significance to others who did not live on the Island, then there aren't any decent explanations for the Island being there.
I understand that a big part of both the Sideverse and everything else on the show has to be taken on faith. But to me, this seemed more like a ploy to mislead us as to what the Sideverse was, rather than a truly integral feature of the Sideverse. The best explanation I can come up with for the Sideverse being at the bottom of the ocean is that the Sideverse was created by the people who lived on the island (Jack, Kate, Sawyer, and co.) as a hypothetical in which the plan to nuke the island to stop anyone from arriving on the island plan was successful. However, this too has logical flaws, such as Benjamin Linus, the Widmores, and others existing in the Sideverse without ever having lived on the Island. Hence, the reason I consider putting the Island at the bottom of the ocean to be a cheap trick by the writers.
But to me, this seemed more like a ploy to mislead us as to what the Sideverse was, rather than a truly integral feature of the Sideverse
What logic is there with the Sideverse? How do we know exactly what it is? We don't. There isn't our normal logical rules in the Sideverse. It is simply the meeting place for the group before they "move on." So, really anything can be anyway in the Sideverse. Sawyer is a cop, Jack married Juliet (which also makes about as much sense as the island being underwater), etc etc.
I think they showed the island underwayer as a bit of a forshadowing element, and yes, a bit of a ploy to the viewers. It wasn't meant to mislead, but rather open debate and forshadow.
It was not a integral part of the sideverse and wasn't meant to be. IME.
Jack married Juliet (which also makes about as much sense as the island being underwater)
I didn't have a problem with this. The sideverse was about characters coping with various aspects of their former lives. Jack and Juliet had a time of mutual attraction, however brief, and Jack manifested that in his sideverse as a divorced relationship.
By putting the island at the bottom of the ocean, the writers gave the impression (at least to me) that the world of the flash-sideways was an alternate universe in which the characters had not had any interaction with the Island/Jacob prior to Oceanic 815. Instead, the whole sideverse seemed only to serve as a ploy to set up emotional reunions/flashbacks/awakenings between every couple that ever got together on the show (Sawyer/Juliet, Jack/Kate, Hurley/Libby, Desmond/Penny, Sun/Jin, Sayid/Boone's sister). The Sideverse didn't serve much purpose for me except as a vehicle to stir up emotion (though admittedly this was done very well).
I thought the on-Island aspects of the finale were very good though. I just wish some mention or explanation would have been given about the Island's impact on the wider world (even if just from the character's perspective guessing what would happen). Other than sinking the Island (with most of the still-living characters safely aboard the plane), I don't really know what the stakes were if the light had remained out. I know the writers like ambiguity, but I think the scene was robbed of some power by the uncertainty.
I loved it... A+... honestly can't say I've ever been so emotionally connected to a show or movie before. I felt like this finale not only answered the big questions and gave closure to the emotional investment I've made to the show over the past 6 seasons... but it also struck an emotional chord with me perosnally. In the end we all have an island, made up of the people/events/connections that really matter from the entirety of our lives... and that's what will never be "lost".
That actually gives some irony to the name. They were all lost before the crash and found themselves on the island.
Jimmy did have a good idea that the island was Jack's test to move on...then he through on some more metaphysical bs...and his theory went downhill quickly....
I know they couldn't answer everything, but this one is going to drive me nuts...Why was he special? Why did things die around him (birds, his mother, his stepfather)? Why did the others feel the need to study his "special" qualities? This is going to drive me nuts, because I know they really didn't have the time to answer everything, but the amount of focus on Walt during season 1 and 2 made it seem like it was a integral part of whatever the island was.
I thought about this as well.
However, something to keep in mind is that during Seasons 1 and 2 there was not a concrete story set yet. It wasn't until Season 3 that producers were given a timeline in which to tell their story. By then Walt and Michael had faded from the main story arc and I think it would have been awkward to bring them in.
I think it's entirely possible, given the structure of TV shows and the uncertainty surrounding their length, that producers simply thought it might be an interesting idea early on to have this special kid, but once they started putting things together they decided it didn't fit.
actually Miles couldn't talk to dead people. He could only read the last few moments of the dead lives. Miles stated he could talk to dead people as a con before he arrived on the island. Hurley is the only one who could talk to dead people.
You know what he meant, and I think you just made his point even clearer with another example of Hurley.
What everyone else said, plus from what I understand the actor who played Walt had a huge growth spurt and the writers didnt know what to do with him and how to explain how Walt got so tall so quickly, thus providing another reason to write he and Michael out of the show.
The writers said that the actor playing Walt was 12 when playing 8 year old Walt at the start of the show. Even a year into production he had grown and was starting to hit puberty. To bring him back now would probably seem odd to viewers (having a grown man as Walt).
They also explained on that Times Talk program that Walt was so "special" that it freaked out the Others and they wanted him off the island ASAP. They seemed to think leaving it at that was a fitting end to the character's story considering the logistical issues involved with bringing back the character on a regular basis.