...yet another first round choice that flopped.
alternate headline: man does job
...yet another first round choice that flopped.
Not so much flopped as "didn't fit." The current Lions management would not have taken Sims. He fit perfectly into Marinelli's scheme; Schwartz's, not so much.
seems strange to give up Sims for a backup tight end. Seems like we should be getting a draft pick.
At many times, he was their best player albeit on a horrible defense. And by best I don't mean the least horrible, but actually a good NFL player.
For the Lions, he's won about 6 games in his tenure. And drafting him netted the Lions a decent backup tight end.
It was another pick that didn't help the Lions. He was a better player than Mike Williams, Charles Rogers, etc. But unfortunately he did nothing to help fix the franchise.
The ghost of Matt Millen strikes again!
Could be 2 1st round draft picks that flopped - what does that say about Pettigrew? That he is still injured or that he isn't the answer at TE?
I think it more has to do with Pettigrew being injured and recovering slower than anticipated. I think Scheffler has some value as a blocker and receiver but Pettigrew had a really good first year, so I'm not worried about busting.
Isn't the knock on Scheffler that he's always hurt as well? While Sims may not have been an ideal fit, I think I'd much rather have him that Scheffler and we could at least move Sims around to make use of him, possibly at another OLB spot. I remember hearing that he can play the other outside backer position opposite Peterson.
If I'm not mistaken he was highly looked at as a LB and RB coming out of High School. There was no doubt he was an athletic freak.
Now, I don't actually think that is a possibility in this case, but it would have been sweet to see. I don't like the trade either way.
i'm not an nfl actuary, but it may be possible that they could be clearing some cap space and use the $ to sign a LB that fits the scheme a bit better.
however, i for one, hoped for a lot more out of sims.
Scheffler is a receiving TE.
Pettigrew is a block TE.
Plus they get something back for Sims, rather than letting him walk in free agency next year.
That is all.
It says "holy crap we didn't think Fitzsimmons was going to retire."
This trade seems....crappy.
According to Chris Mortensen, it's a move designed to give Pettigrew time to fully heal as opposed to rushing him back.
I think that this trade has less to say about Pettigrew and more to say about getting something of value out of Sims. Remember Casey Fitzsimmons has had to retire due to concussion issues. What the Lions add is a quality TE for backup and 2 TE purposes, get something of value of Sims, and insurance in case of Pettigrew's injury status. They get rid of someone who they werent going to resign and he didnt really fit their system. Still wish the Lions would have made an effort to resign Larry Foote as this leaves a hole at LB unless the Lions like Dizon or Follet enough.
Pettigrew is widely one of the best picks in his draft.
have a higher value than that.
Philly sends 5th rounder to Denver. Detroit also gets a 7th rounder. Can't wait til late Saturday when the Lions have 4 worthless 7th round picks.
Would all like a word with you... At any rate though I'll agree that the success rate of a seventh round pick isnt very good, at least in regards to star potential In a draft that is probably the deepest in history, why not grab as many picks as you can get?
and I have more faith in the current staff in selecting players than I did the previous administration, but Sims was a starter, and a productive one to boot; I think we could/should of received more in exchange for him.
I wasn't ever a big fan of Sims. I think he basically has good speed, but not a good blitzer and not great for the current defense under Schwartz. Obviously he was hurt for parts, but he had no sacks, forced fumbles, or interceptions last season. So he basically had 49 tackles in in 9 games played. Is 5 tackles per game really that productive? I don't think it's an awesome trade, but I'm perfectly fine with it.
As you said, the success rate isn't high, you are probably just as likely to spurt off a list of non-drafted players.
I'm sure they acquired this pick so they could draft Zoltan!
I think I saw a stat last year that every 2009 draft pick the lions made ended up making a roster (We cut 7th rounder Lydon Murtha and he ended up making the Dolphins I think).
So if they use them for drafting or trade bait, I'm confident either way.
We also got a 7th round pick in the deal. I think that gives us 4 now for the draft.
that the lions are going to draft Brandon Spikes or Navarro Bowman.
since Spikes is going to fall hard because of his really slow 40s. I normally don't take too much stock in 40s but running over 5 seconds is really really really slow for a QB. Maybe Mr. Irrelevant?
Bowman is a solid LB but apparently he has off-field issues. I don't think that the Lions are willing to take on prospects with that kind of off-field issue. They would take that risk if they are actually a good team, but since they're not. They can't afford this kind of risk.
No matter what they do, I actually have faith in this staff. They did such a good job last (I know it's one year but it's all the evidence we have) that I am sure they can get us several starters with the first 3 picks. Especially with the deep draft this year. I almost expect 3 starters with the first three picks.
I beg to differ. 2 TE and 2 RS on a team with very little talent. Throw in a small college project DT in the fourth round and I see a lot of waste. The Oline and Dline were basically forgotten by a coach who came from a team that won in the trenches.
He should be a solid starter for years. Two TE's is about right and Scheffler is a good receiving TE. Your complaint doesn't make much sense.
Do you follow Lions football? If not you probably shouldn't be posting things like that on it. That project DT you're talking about is no project at all. He was a starter for us last year as a rookie. And we actually had good DT play. No, we weren't outstanding on the D-line, but for a fourth round pick, he's turned out to be high value. That gives us four rounds, including two picks in the first and third round, of starters last year. Deandre Levy, in the third round, Sammie Lee Hill in the fourth, Louis Delmas in the second, and Stafford and Pettigrew in the first give us a lot of good starters. I don't know about you, but going four rounds deep into the draft and pulling out starters is a pretty good job. And you can't make the argument that they're starters replacing Lion's players either. They were all solid and will remain starters for years.
Sammie Lee Hill. Dude did a dead-jump out of a pool, show some respect.
is Julian Peterson from last year? So, we are going to have a stellar front 4 and a draft-dependent back 7? Great googaly-moogaly...
Deandre Levy is a very solid linebacker. The whole reason the Lions let Foote go was b/c they had Levy. I still disagree with the decision to let Foote go, as Levy could then provide actual depth which the Lions haven't had in years, but oh well. He's still solid. But we do have a glaring hole at Sim's spot now which needs to somehow be filled. I was hoping that we could get a RB and a corner with our second and third round picks, but it's almost assured now that one of them has to be spent on a linebacker.
This is why I'm glad I'm not a Lions fan.
of reasons why you should be glad not to be a Lions fan, I think this rates around #2,374,925.
I think everyone has Sims' rookie season too fresh in their mind. He has been subpar for two full seasons now and doesn't fit the scheme at all. The only question I have about the deal is that we trade him and let Foote go leaving only Levy and Peterson from last year with no real solid replacements. Either they found a 2nd/3rd round player they really really like or they aren't done in free agency.
I don't think it's that bad of a trade. Scheffler is one of the better pass catching tight ends in the league. It's easier for young quarterbacks to throw to tight ends, so having two very competent ones (in a system that actually utilizes them) could be very beneficial. It would have been nice to have the starting linebackers set, but the fact is Sims didn't fit. We got a starting caliber tight end who does fit for a starting caliber linebacker who doesn't. I assume this means Mayhew will draft a larger sized linebacker better suited for the scheme, and hold an open competition for the starting job. Probably won't be better than Sims right away, but down the road it should work out.
And having four seventh round picks (three tradable ones) can be useful in 2 ways:
1. It's pretty random who ends up panning out once you get to the seventh round, so having more picks increases the chance you'll at least get one competent player.
2. You can trade the picks to move up
I gotta stand by my boy Mayhew cus hope in him is all I've got left.
has a nice write up about the trade.
Basically, Sims was not in the future plans of the organization so they got a good player to help out Stafford with Pettigrew recovers.
Isn't it obvious? The Lions are going to use that seventh round pick to draft Stevie Brown to replace Ernie Sims!
I think Scheffler grew up around Ann Arbor and played college ball somewhere in Michigan (MAC school). The details escape me, but I remember reading about him.
I think he went to Chelsea High and he played for Western Michigan.
He was a wide receiver at Chelsea (go Bulldogs), and Western converted him to a tight end. The Broncos took him in the second round, giving little old Chelsea its first-ever NFL draft pick. Even D1 talent isn't an everyday find here (we get one every once in a while), so his being a draft pick was a big deal.
He's been good about maintaining ties with CHS football, and I appreciate that. In 2008 Denver played a Thursday night game in Cleveland, and the next night Scheffler showed up at Chelsea's first-round playoff game (and spoke briefly to the team after the victory). I like it when a guy remembers where he came from.
I kind of like this trade. This allows us to run the double TE set and have two effective TE's in there, instead of just one in Pettigrew. Forcing defenses to cover both TE's and double team Calvin Johnson. Also Sims didn't really fit all that well into our defense.
This trade should help out the lions in their 2TE running game due to the increased ability for play action passing.
Having those two tight ends should be pretty sweet for our offense, especially since Pettigrew is recovering slowly from injury, but who are we going to replace Sims with? It doesn't matter that he didn't fit our defense, there's nobody else to play linebacker there now. That means we have to use the 2nd or 3rd round to draft someone to replace him where we really could have used those picks at other positions, or pick up some other subpar LB in free agency.
trade a starting LB, and get in return an offensive player. Hmm.
This trade made sense for all 3 teams. Sims didn't fit the defensive scheme in Detroit. Josh McDaniels has very little use for pass-catching TE's in his offensive scheme in Denver. Philly needed a speedy LB. And Detroit and Denver can sure use the draft picks. I say good job to all teams involved.
I thought Sims was pretty good, albeit injury prone. In hindsight, he is still a much better pick than Matt Leinart would have been.
for cap room.
This could be part of it. I think the new TE is making just over a million for one year. What was Sims at?
Also, I think this is getting some value out of a LB who they don't feel they'll be keeping around for the longhaul.
2010 is an uncapped year for the NFL, after the failure to reach a new Collective Bargaining Agreement.
I don't mind the trade in theory. Don't know the TE but if it lets Pettigrew take his time getting back then that's fine by me - kid showed some promise before getting hurt.
I am very interested to know what their plans are for Linebacker though. You have Peterson and Levy. Who is their third starter? Are they drafting someone, trading for someone else or planning to use a Dizon or a Campbell (provided the Army lets him play) at that open spot?
If the coaching staff uses him correctly. He's not the blocker Pettigrew is, but he is a very talented pass catching tight end, and he has versatility, he can be moved around sort of like an H-back type player, lining up opposite of Pettigrew in double TE formations, playing some in the backfield as a pass catching fullback or wingback type player, and can even lineup in a slot type roll in spread formation. His mix of size and speed means he can stretch the D from any position in the field, and gives the Lions the ability to put out 5 skill position players who are a legitimate threat to make a play in the passing game.
If the Lions manage to get a nice LB in the 2nd round of a draft, maybe a Spikes or Bowman, I think this could be a very nice trade for them. They might not break .500 next year, but they have assembled the type of passing attack that will make them dangerous against any team they play, and could have filled some major holes in the D. You can see the foundation for a good team taking shape, and a blueprint for a team that could compete soon.
So no one wants to see the linebackers next year as Peterson, levy, and the pain train Zack follett ?!???! :P