They were on their way to a Sparty No! finish, but somehow pulled it out. Joe Webb, what the hell.
FWIW. Michigan doesn't seem inclined to get re-involved.
We caught all the terrible Minn passes in the first half but dropped multiple interceptions in the second. We looked so bad today. Luckily, we were playing the Vikings.
was so obvious. GO lionz
The ball was already fumbled so I think it would have been on the end of the play, still Lions ball. I may be mistaken, though.
This is a Mike Peirera (sp? not important enough to google) moment where we can the argument about possesion semantics. I view possesion as the offense's until the defense actually gains possesion. The definition of a "neutral ball" would create a lot of wierd scenarios I think.
When a player loses possession of the ball it is considered a "loose ball." A forward pass is also considered a loose ball. A loose ball is considered to be in possession of the team it was previously in possession of until the ball is recovered or intercepted by the defending team.
So, if the face mask occured during the loose ball (I believe it did), then the Vikings would retain possession. I'm not sure of the NFL's semantics on previous spot or spot of the foul in regard to where the penalty would be enforced from, but it would be vikings ball, an untimed down b/c time ran out during the play.
Refs missed a facemask on the qb on the last play
There is no way they should have missed that...truly incompetent. We got lucky
a face mask on that last play.
I had that queazy "same old lions" feel in my gut the last 5 minutes and even more so on that last couple plays. Avril jumps offside when they were going to spike it???
Well, considering this is the same team that was fielding its 3rd/4th-string RBs and half of its defense, this doesn't feel as much lucky as just the waxing and waning of the football season working out for the Lions.
Now we just need my lord and personal saviour, Tim Tebow, to beat the Bears to help our playoff chances. Too bad the Falcons came back against the fighting Cam Newtons.
If Suh played in this game, the Lions would've lost. Wouldn't be able to overcome his additional 60 penalty yards.
UM/Illinois shootout last year when our D swamped the Illini QB.
I live in Texas so I don't get to watch my Lions very often. I have the Lions defense for my Fantasy Football league and saw that the game was close. I was getting the nfl updates and once I saw that the Vikings were on the 1 or 2 yard line with a first down I thought it was over. My fantasy team gained 2 points for a fumble recovery and it said the game was over and I just couldn't stop laughing.
Anybody else think that the refs missed an "illegal bat" in addition to the facemask? Tulloch hit the ball like 20 yards upfield... Lions really caught a few breaks
According to the NFL Rulebook:
Whatever man. The Lions get so shafted on calls like last week's phantom PI on Burleson, phantom roughing the passers, phantom everything, fine, I'll take it and call it even. Let's just call the face mask one of those that would've been a five-yarder but is no longer called.
Even if there still was a 5 yd facemask still, the Vikes would have gotten another shot from the 1/2 yd line. I agree with rosedani. Even before the replay where the facemask was obvious, I thought it was coming back for one more play because of the bat.
I realize the Lions are a chippy team and probably DO commit penalties more often than other teams, but the amount of cheap calls that pile up apparently just to make a point is ludicrous.
If you look like you're trying to recover the ball, it's not likely to be called.
Lions really tried to shoot themselves in the foot in the second half, but managed to hold onto the win.
If Webb had done the smart thing and thrown the ball away, the Vikes would have had another chance.
It's scotchy scotch time. This team drives me to drink, every bloody Sunday. I think there's a very good reason the stuff is so expensive at the stadium and last call is early in the 3rd.
Although I will say this is a qualitative improvement over last year, I do still nervously sip from a snifter of Appleton Estates rum during Lions games. The end of today's game was about 1/5 of the bottle.
There is a small part of me that will always miss yelling at the Lions for fucking up in games that don't matter. Yelling at them for fucking up in games with stuff at stake is way more stressful. It'll be fun if they go to the playoffs, but it's a different kind of fun pulling for a bunch of 2-14 screwups.
Was watching highlights of the Panther's game - Cam Newton using the fake QB draw then pass that Denard does so well! Sucked up the Falcon's safeties just like Denard did too. Anyone else see this?
Yeah. I know that it was off topic of this thread but since there was no other NFL discussion I thought I'd bring it up here. I thought it was pretty cool that they were borrowing a bit from Michigan and Denard.
Dude is such a fraud.
He yells and pumps his fist on the sideline like some kind of bad ass, then on any 4th and short, he always takes the passive route instead of trying to put the game away.
His lack of balls almost cost us the game today.
Thanks for all you've done, I want a coach who plays to win, not one who plays not to lose.
Well, we did blitz on the last play of the game when the blitz wasn't working at all, because Webb would just scramble (see: three straight third down scrambling conversions including a 65 yd td). The fact that his team has no discipline should make you angry, not his lack of balls.
dropping 8 into coverage, rushing three guys and using Avril as a spy. They did not blitz on the last three Viking possessions, except for the last play of the game.
Well to be fair, there's not a lot of NFL coaches that make those calls, and when they do and it doesn't work (Mike Smith against NO) they usually get torn a new one about not "playing it safe"
You'd rather have Marinelli? Mariuchi?
Schwartz would probably go for it on those 4th and shorts if we didn't average negative yards with our running game.
I'd like more of it. Not going for short 4/1 near midfield when a punt nets you 20~ yards isn't good game theory.
Three years ago they were 0-13 at this point. Schwartz has the Lions playing important games in December. For that I am thankful.
The Lions have a ways to go as a team, but they have made tremendous strides.he deserves credit.
We're 8-5 and still in the playoff discussion in the middle of December. Geez, how long has it been since we could say that? For quite some time, we've spent December as the scrimmage team for the rest of the league. You're over being competitive in comparison to the last decade? They aren't a complete team, they have a bit of a journey to dominance, but you're over improvement?
It always amazes me - actually it doesn't, when I think about how many Michigan fans on here were trembling like a bunch of hopeless pussies at the thought of "Oh, I hope we can go 7-5 this season, I'd be so happy!" or "Oh, I hope we can go 1-2 over our last 3 games, as long as we beat Ohio!" - that fans do not understand how THINGS CHANGE FROM SEASON TO SEASON. Your satisfaction and expectations shouldn't come from the thought of "Oh, well we've sucked in the past so we should be happy with substandard play from our talented team because it's better than substandard play from our untalented teams from previous seasons".
Has Jim Schwartz done an alright job? Yeah. But I laugh when you name the coaches as the main problem...hmmmm...Would seem to me the main problem lies at the hands of a certain Matt Millen, as he was the constant in all those losing seasons and all those hopelessly terrible drafts.
Now, here we are, with a good team in all phases of the game and people are acting overjoyed because we scraped by a 2-10 team with their back-up quarterback. Sorry I base my expectations on the team that is on the field and not my perception from previous years like the rest of the "woe is us!" crowd.
And what has our main problem been this year? Hmmmm. Oh yeah, Discipline. Whose at fault there? Well it's probably the head coach who claims we "don't have a discipline problem" as his players wrack up countless pointless fouls. But there he is, chest puffed out, screaming after wins over teams with losing records, outrageous fist pumps...and then a meek "field goal" signal when the game is on the line.
Quite frankly, I find your attitude pathetic...and it explains why you would defend Schwartz's inability to put a game away.
Were missing our best two (three? with Leshoure), our secondary's beat up plus not that great to start, and our O-Line is pretty shaky. This team isn't that great. That said, the upswing this team has been on since Schwartz took over is incredibly refreshing.
They were not the problem today. It was the DL's lack of rush and their inability to keep contain. The issues with containment was their bigger issue.
Of the Packers and Saints is just stupid. This was a team that topside should be making the playoffs, and was more likely an 8-8 team. And they've already won 8 games. It's a team that has lost their top Three RBs, still needs to draft some O-linemen, needs help in the back 7 on D, and has their last 2 first round draft picks out (not to mention 2nd), and a QB starting his first full year. This team isn't a Super Bowl contender, and anyone who didn't think their record was overachieving during the weak part of the schedule and the rest of the season was coming back down to earth knows nothing about talent. The fact is, while they still have problems, they are, for the first time in most of our lives, actually smartly building towards something. They're still a couple years away, IF they continue to do things right AND can keep players healthy (and don't have to draft a RB every year). Thinking they should be going toe to toe with the Pack right now is just silly.
That's true. The Lions aren't on THAT level.
However, their lack of discipline cost them any shot at winning the Thanksgiving game. Did you watch it? You say I can't evaluate talent...please, enlighten me on the difference between the two teams in the first half? I'll tell you: It was our stunning ability to commit a penalty EVERY time we reached their side of the field. In the second half, with the game. When the game was still in the balance and we had them stopped, Suh got that terrible penalty. The next week, we committed over 100 yards of penalties against the Saints, including three incredibly dumb personal fouls. But no you're right, the biggest difference was a "lack of talent". We may not be on the level of Green Bay, but we could have won that game. We are right there with the Saints, but our lack of discipline - led by Jim Schwartz, who is basically the Mark Dantonio of the NFL right now, but hey, Michigan fans who are Lions fans will defend him cause he's got those 8 wins - cost us.
Also, this is not an 8-8 team. Only someone who judges the team based on the jersey (Oh its the Lions, they are always bad!) would say that. This team was ready to make the playoffs. They have as good a front four as anyone. They have one of the best young QBs in the game. They have Calvin Johnson and good supporting WRs. They have some of the best TEs outside of New England. What is it with fans of Michigan football teams that makes us sell our guys short? We can sit here and say "Oh, we're missing so and so", but every team has those problems. It's not like New England has go-to running back. It's not like Green Bay has a guy that you worry about in the backfield.
With that attitude towards personnel, you should have been RR's biggest fan.
This team was beat u defensively. They were without their two best DTs, Cb, and safety. They are on their 5th string RB. What the fuck do you want?
Learn to close? You do realize they went 6-10 last year do you not? You also realize that the Lions were not expected to any better than 9-7 pr maybe 10-6. This is not a Super Bowl team. Intelligent fans know that.
Yes, discipline is an issue, but that can be corrected.Your criticism of Schwartz is over the top.
Why wasn't Suh in the game today?
Oh and please save it...Minnesota is starting a rookie QB and then their back-up comes in the game. NO Adrian Peterson.
So many garbage excuses.
But they were expected to be a playoff team right?
As well they should be.
But the last three weeks they've had two games where they played equally talented teams and had so many stupid penalties that they cost themselves any chance at winning. Then this week, more stupid penalties and terrible decision-making by the coaching staff. We were one play away from being 7-6 and that's real close to being out of the playoff hunt.
So what would your excuse be then, because at 7-6, suddenly expectations aren't being met? Oh right, you probably live in a world where the Lions were supposed to go 4-12 this year, so you're through the moon that they've hit .500.
You're 100% trolling. Anyone who can't enjoy the Lions having a winning record and thinks they should be dominating the league this soon after the Millen Decade is a spoiled whiny five-year-old. Oh no, we were one play away from still having a winning record. But guess what, that play didn't happen. Would you like to go back to being 0-16? Jeezus, you sound like a Cowboys fan. Is it that time of the month or something?
It's not trolling to be disappointed that a team I've supported my whole life FINALLY has the talent to be a successful playoff team and their coming dangerously close to missing out.
On top of this, our coach frustrates me - much like Hoke doesn't - with his 4th down calls and his inability to discipline his team.
But yes, call being honest trolling if it makes you feel better. If anyone on the team or coaching staff had your attitude, this team will surely fall short of its aspirations. I'm sure you'll console yourself by saying "hey, we managed to get to 8 wins though! Swell!".
Please try and provide a valid argument besides "BE HAPPY WITH UNDERACHIEVING BECAUSE ITS BETTER THAN WHAT YOU'VE HAD BEFORE". It'd be refreshing to see some intelligence next to your screen name. I won't hold my breathe.
If you think calling people pathetic and stupid isn't trolling, I hope you never have anyone working for you, and if you do, here's a secret: they hate your guts.
This is called a playoff race. I know we as Lions fans have had a while since we've seen one, but here's a newsflash: teams go through this all the time. I will continue to call you a spoiled whiner if you can't be happy with a WIN (we WON this game - that's WIN as in MORE POINTS than the other team) when our top four running backs and top two starters in the secondary are injured and we essentially added no talent through the draft because it all got hurt.
But oh, no, I can hear you saying - if we play like this in the future we will get killed. Minnesota's terrible and the teams next on the schedule are better. If you're worried about that, then I call bullshit on you have ever been a fan of the Lions or the NFL, because anyone who would say that doesn't know how the NFL works. "Any given Sunday" is still true.
How about this for a finisher: Since you were bitching about the field goal call to get to 34 points, remind yourself of this: That forced Minnesota to drive for the touchdown instead of thinking game-tying field goal. If we get stuffed on 4th down and don't get any points, and we still have Millen's offensive line so it's perfectly possible, chances are that game goes into OT. But I guess you preferred to put your nuts on the table and pray the hammer missed, and go for it on fourth, because you're a badass like that.
are just mindless, snivelling drivel. I'd expect that from you.
Your last paragraph reveals exactly why you are okay with being a loser: because you think like one. Let's analyze the play: It's 4th and 1 at the 3/4 yard line. If we get it, get this: The game is OVER! We win. No need for officials to bail us out. If we miss, guess what? They have to drive 97 yards. So we trade three points for 35-40 yards of field position - because we kicked to Percy Harvin - which cancels out the time Minnesota would have needed to kick that hypothetical field goal you're talking about. It was a timid, gutless call by someone who claims to be all about "toughness".
BTW, I love how "Sparty" everyone is defending Schwartz and the Lions on this thread. If Dantonio's team lacked the discipline - oh right they do - everyone would be all over them for being dirty. But here we are as Lions fans in the same position and everyone is conveniently ignoring it and saying Schwartz is a good guy, just be happy we are better than we were before.
I guess that makes us no better than anyone else: As long as someone's winning, we don't care how it gets done.
I dare say that those of us who are pleased with being 8-5 would also say that we're not happy with everything. To say so would be a vast oversimplification, so if you find a textured, measured approached to the expectations some have of the Detroit Lions to be pathetic, then this is your right. The penalties are a drag, the team clearly doesn't have its shit together when it comes to discipline, the injuries blow, and have they performed where we would like them even now? I would think not. Are we happy with Schwartz's calls all the time? Clearly not. That being said, I guess I don't understand the need to be over someone who has taken the team somewhere that seemed far away just a few years ago. If there was ever a team that needed patience and understanding in lieu of building a potential winner (and I do believe we're headed in the right direction), it would be the Detroit Lions.
Patience and understanding don't seem to be in Schwartz's wheelhouse.
I agree with you that Schwartz's team doesn't have discipline, which is a problem. But you didn't complain about that in your orginal post, which is why you got flamed. Claiming he has a lack of balls makes no sense. You wanted us to go for it on fourth and one at the 50 yard line with our terrible short yardage run game, rather than make Minnesota go 80 yards with their backup qb?
And going for the field goal was when we were in the redzone was the right call. If we get the first down we most likely win, but if we don't then the Vikings kick a tying field goal as time expires. The game goes into overtime with our offense not doing too well, and their offense doing great.