OT: Kevin Love to Cavs
Cleveland will find a way to screw the pooch on this one.
Not difficult. They probably won't win this year. They'll struggle to sign Love next summer with cap space tied up in James, Irving and Thompson.
Fast forward to 2016, when we're looking at a depleted Cavs, after one trip to the Finals where they lost in 5 and one 2nd round exit. Waiters has left to get paid, Love is in LA, Irving's knees are failing him, and there's no cap space because they overpaid Thompson (has James' agent) to reward James. James is 32 and declining and Wiggins is playing at Paul George' 1st half of the 2013-14 season-level.
Yes, there's plenty of room for the Cavs to mess this up. I hope they don't. Cleveland deserves a championship.
said that Love has already agreed to opt out next summer and re-sign for the max. So they'll likely have him for the next six years. Also, I really doubt Wiggins reaches Paul George level within the next two years. We'll see, but he's got some serious work to do. On top of all that, you can't just assume they won't win this year. This Cavs roster is arguably more talented than what LeBron dragged to the FInals this past season. Love is Bosh++ and Irving's style fits LeBron's game better because he can shoot. Not to mention, they actually have a real C on the roster in Varejao, when healthy. X-Factors will be signing Ray Allen and Shawn Marion to provide veteran depth.
I certainly hope they have some sort of commitment from Love to give up two #1 overall picks for him, he's not good enough to pay that for a one year rental. My response wasn't a "this is what I think will happen" - it was a scenario where everything has gone tits up.
If you disagree that the probable outcome is that the Cavs don't win the title, I encourage you to lay a wager down next time you're in a suitable establishment.
"in anticipation of the move, Cleveland had its odds to win the 2014-15 NBA title reduced from 7-to-2 to 3-to-1 at the LVH SuperBook."
I always found looking down on a pair of nice tits a good outcome.
Varejao's missed mote than half his teams games the past three seasons. There's no way they can expect him to give them substantial minutes. Bulls, then Cavs, then Raptors, then junk. That's the east this year.
in my comment, I understand the risk there, but he actually saw the floor in 65 games last season. Played 28 minutes per game too. I'll bet he plays at least 55 games this year and they nurse him into the playoffs. As for the East, I think the Bobcats challenge for that 3 seed with the Wizards. After that, junk.
If (and it's a big IF) Rose stays healthy the Bulls are better at the point.
Cavs are better on the wing because LeBron is a beast and will play 40 playoff minutes.
Bulls still have better bigs, even with Love. Besides Love the Cavs don't have talent or depth.
How are the Cavs going to guard anyone? (besides who LBJ guards)
Should be fun...
your statement that the Cavs don't have any depth?
I'll take a core who has played together and with the same (great, driven, freaking crazy, his goal is to go 82-0) coach for years over a couple of talented guys and a 1st time NBA coach (who I really want to succeed, but I wont put him over Thibs yet)
How about a friendly wager on this one? I watched Lebron drag the lifeless corpse of Ben Wallace, Wally Szerbieeakrakrachrkkkk, Mo "I don't know defense" Williams, an injured Anderson Varejo and the nutjob with guns who may have slept with Lebron's mom Gloria Delonte West to 60 wins and #1 seed in the East.
You don't think with actual real-life players with talent he cant do better?
How about a 6 pack of Great Lakes vs. a sixer from Goose Island (I'll get you a good local one, not the 312 that they now make in New York)
Are you thinking higher regular season win total or farther in the playoffs?
Great bet Jeepin. You're on!
Either one - you choose.
How about 1 six pack each (season and playoffs) - if we split, we each pay up. We'll stimulate our local economies. Logistics to be determined in... June or so?
a major injury for the 2nd time.
As an anti-anything Ohio fan, I also say dammit.
Well, this is how we gonna do this...
F*ck Kevin Love.
F*ck the Cavs as a team, Cleveland as a city and Ohio as a state.
And if you wanna be down with the Cavs, then f*ck you too.
Dan Gilbert, f*ck you too.
~ Bulls in six
How did Love for with Gasol and Noah? you have to start all three and neither is a SF.
not the best fit IMO. I'd even take gasol over love in their system.
A 25 year old stretch 4 who has already played in 3 all star games and can shoot the 3.
Yea, he's said some douchy things, but, outside of Ilitch, he's probably doing/done more for the City of Detroit than just about anyone.
Such an absurd narrative. Illitch and Gilbert are in business for THEMSELVES. Gilbert is the chief voice behind the privatization of services in Detroit, which will lead to 40% of households having their water shutoff. He doesn't want Detroit to run itself as a city anymore - just a partner is his downtown development quest.
My four four make sure all your kids don't grow...
As a Bulls fan, I agree. However, the Bulls still have a good shot of coming out of the East. Even with Love, the Cavs can be beaten if we stay healthy. I know, a big "if," however the Bulls can do this.
Sucks for Wiggins. He's been in two of the worst places to play already and he hasn't played a single game.
Congrats to Kevin Love on experiencing his 1st minute of playoff basketball in 2015.
Smoke and fire with this one for a while. Good for the Cavs, I guess, but giving up alot it seems.
I'm actually a little worried. It's been 50 years since Cleveland has won a championship, I don't think we'll know how to handle it if it happens.
I was kinda rooting for the Indians to beat the Marlins so this would happen.
I am not sure I can root for the Cavs though. I'll just have fun rooting for the Michigan guys in the NBA.
was the worst day of my professional sports fandom. Thanks so much for bringing that up again. Want to kick my dog while you're at it?
I hate you, Jose Mesa. And I still cant forgive Hargrove for bringing on Charlie Nagy in relief. he was the king of letting up runs early in his starts before he settled into a groove. The choice to put him in as a reliever is still inexplicable.
My parents love to tell the story of 4 year old me, upon being told that Jaret Wright was starting game seven, bursting into tears.
I'm sorry, but that's funny.
No need to apologize, it's definitely funny.
I still have, Lord willing, 50 or 60 years on this planet. Thanks to 1997 and 2007, I've already given up hope that the Tribe will ever win the Series.
Good deal for Cleveland. They'll just get another #1 pick in the lottery this year anyway, so they really didn't lose much.
The new rivalry in the East. Interesting.
And with Paul George out, there is literally no one else in the East worth watching.
I think the Bulls will be very fun to watch. Rose appears healthy (fingers crossed). With Gasol, McDermott and Mirotic added and Boozer subtracted, I think they have to be co-favorites with the Cavs.
Lebron and Love are obvious superstars. Though I like Irving, he's a bit overrated to me (as a role player, he's great though). You can't be considered an elite player if you couldn't take your team to the playoffs in the East last year. That's how bad the conference was.
to sound very odd, but Charlotte and Toronto should both be very fun to watch. Hornets play incredible defense and added Lance Stephenson on top of really solid depth in the draft. Could see them maybe even challenging for the 3 seed. Same goes for Toronto and even Washington.
You're probably right but I like Washington. Wall, Beal, Ariza, NeNe and Gortat could be good enough for the 3 seed and probably the 4th.
Not a good deal for the Wolves. Wiggins looked just average his freshman year (given his hype) and didn't look very good in the Summer League, which are bad signs in my opinion. On the other hand, Love is a top ten player in the league.
But Kevin Love wasn't going to resign with Minnesota. Got something for nothing
Are you kidding me? As a Wolves fan this is better than any deal I could have imagined when it became apparent that we needed to trade Love. Usually trades involving players like Love on a contract year are super lopsided against the team giving him away. I can't remember a trade like this where a lot of the fanbase on the receiving side wishes they hadn't done the deal.
Bad move by Cleveland. If they waiting for this offseason they would have been able to keep all those assets and still sign Love or another superstar. I am now a Lebron hater ( I rooted for Miami but I refuse to root for anything ohio) so I'm glad they did it this way. Wiggins will be a top 10 player in 4 years.
I agree about Wiggins being a star. Worst case scenario, that kid is a defensive stopper who you could put on the other team's best 1-4 player instead of LeBron and allowed LeBron to use less energy and extend his career. I really feel like in 3-4 years, they're going to wish they had Wiggins.
But in 6-7 years, LeBron will be on the verge of retirement.
That's what's relevant here: maximizing the window that the best player in the league has left.
Much like Peyton Manning, LeBron is the centerpiece of the effort. The Cavs are trying to win right now.
Agreed on Cav's strategy. Wiggins is not guaranteed to be anything in the league, and I don't have the same confidence that he'll end up a star as I was when I first watched Kobe and Lebron at similar ages.
if he ends up a smidge below LeBron and Kobe, I think the Timberwolves will be okay with that.
who could maybe be a top-5 player in the NBA for a guy who already is, and is only 25 years old. Don't see anything wrong with that.
Love is a top five player in the NBA? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!
Go ahead and name five better. KD, CP3 and LeBron are obvious, I'd argue anybody else you say is more talented than him. Curry? Also doesn't play D. Kobe? Old, injured. Westbrook? Can't shoot, turnover prone. Harden/Dwight? Nah. Melo? Great scorer, does nothing else. Anthony Davis isn't there yet, but looks like he will be. Rose? Been three years since he really played. I stand by Love being a top 5 player.
and keep all those assets, they had to trade for Love to get his Bird Rights which allows them to go over the cap to sign him.
No they wouldn't have. They wouldn't have had the cap space to sign him without giving up the exact same assets they gave up.
It probably would have taken given up Haywood, Wiggins or Waiters, Bennett in the offseason. The only real pro is seeing whihc player you like better of Waiters/Wiggins
I'm probably in the minority, but if there was anyway Cleveland could've swung this trade for Love without giving up Kyrie, Wiggins, or Thompson (EDIT: or LeBron, obv), LeBron would've surpassed Jordan in titles.
Lebron may pass Jordan in titles simply because he jumps ship when he sees adversity and then tries to stack the deck. He's a phenomenal talent and will be considered a top five player of all time when it's all said and done. I would put him below Jordan (who was pyschopathic as a player). Lebron is also below Kobe (who I absolutely hate) in terms of overall career, but he'll pass Kobe in the future.
Seriously? He went to Cleveland because they're on the verge of a title?
He would have never left Miami if he felt the window hadn't closed. With its complementary pieces, Cleveland is much better situated for future titles with Lebron than Miami was (he basically gave up at halftime in his Finals game). There was a reason why he didn't mention the previous two No. 1's in his letter. He's the smartest player in the league, and he knew Miami's time was up as it was constructed.
Giving up: 31 points, 10 rebounds and 5 assists in game 5?
Some people (mostly MJ superfans) hate him. Its like how people sent death threats to Maris in the run up to breaking Ruth's record. It isn't logical, and you can't reason with them.
I actually respect Lebron quite a bit, but if you actually watched the game, you could tell he quit at the beginning of the third quarter.
"I'm probably in the minority, but if there was anyway Cleveland could've swung this trade for Love without giving up Kyrie, Wiggins, or Thompson"
That would have been impossible.
Bennett, Waiters, and 2 #1s is still way, way better of an offer than anything Minnesota reportedly had coming from anyone else.
I would rather hold on to Love and wait it out a bit longer. With Wiggins and Bennett, they are still just a lottery team. According to reports, Flip wants to at least be competitive right away. The Wolves are not going to be competitive with Wiggins in the near future.
Are you a Wolves fan? Have you seen the other offers they were receiving for Love? They werent even close to the return that this Cavs deal brings. Not even remotely sure what you would be waiting on, the Warriors to give up Klay Thompson? With Love Minnesota is competing for a 7th or 8th seed and the right to get blasted in a 1st round series.
Now Minnesota has a really talented young core of players. This actually gives them a solid future outlook with multiple kids with the potential to become really good players. I would take that 10 times out of 10 compared to competing for a low playoff seed.
Which is also a reason being a Pistons fan is so frustrating -- the way they seem to strive for mediocrity.
Minnesota knew they had what the Cavs and Lebron wanted. Therefore, they raised their prices for Love accordingly. They weren't going to trade for anything less than Wiggins or Irving.
There were other teams in play for Love too, most notably Golden State.
Golden State's package was less impressive than Waiters, Bennett + 2 1s, imho.
Minnesota wasn't letting Love leave for nothing. It may have been at the trade deadline instead off the off-season, but he wasn't finishing that contract there no matter how paltry the offers were.
not sure why Klay Thompson became virtually untouchable. I'll take Wiggins upside to Thompson everyday.
Maybe it's because we are on a recruiting web site that people feel this way, but unless he's a sure thing, I would rather take guaranteed all stars if I were the GM. Wiggins has serious bust potential. I wouldn't risk my job over someone who looked just average against summer league competition, and yes, I actually watched some of the games. The athleticism is there but not much else.
one would always take the lesser but known quality over the potential upside. I appreciate it is always a judgment call but sometimes the upside is worth risk. And yea, I don't think Thompson is a guaranteed All-Star--if I thought otherwise, I might feel differently about the comparison. And Wiggins will be a better defender than Thompson from day 1.
And I didn't miss your patronizing "recruiting web site" shot.
It wasn't patronizing. I actually think a lot of fans think this way. I think you're taking this too seriously. We just have a difference in opinion on Thompson.
Here's NBC's piece on the subject - (LINK)
Per Adrian Wojnarowski - "Cleveland is making the deal with Minnesota with a firm agreement Love will opt out of his contract in 2015 and re-sign with the Cavaliers on a five-year, $120 million-plus contract extension, league sources told Yahoo Sports."
The value of a max contract, per the article, will not be officially known until we actually know the salary cap figures for the 2015-16 season, but per projections, it is about $108 million.
Cavs are the East favorite now, but I still see big flaws in this team in year 1. They will play no defense at all (no rim protector) and lack any kind of depth on the wing.
The more they make LeBron do in the regular season, the tougher it'll be on him later. Nobody else (except a couple bit role players) has ANY playoff experience and that matters a lot in the NBA.
Basketball is the one sport where a superstar (or two) can make all the difference. Cavs have a lot of attractive complementary pieces. Injuries may be an issue, but that's the same with every team including the Bulls who are probably the Cav's primary competition in the East.
How are Love, Irving, and LeBron along with the rest of the Cavs not at least as good as this past year's Heat team with Overrated Bosh, LeBron, injured Wade and a bunch of bullshit? They may not win the championship but how are they not the easy favorite in the East?
After George injury, Bulls are only ones close. Will come down to health of D Rose and how good Irving really is. The Bobcats, bullets and raptors will remain young and interesting but I don't think they make cf this year. Nets will be interesting with Lopez back but they don't have enough just like Knicks and hawks. The rat have no chance.
Would love to see Cavs v thunder and have MCGary breakout in finals.
We'll find out if Irving's actually a good player now. He's literally never played in a high pressure game in college or the pros.
I think a superstar can get you to the playoffs and maybe the ECF, but this team is relying on LeBron to turn Irving and Love into much better all-around players than they've shown so far in their careers, and I'm dubious he'll be able to do it.
can't just trade their 2015 draft choice. They had to "protect" it in case they miss the playoffs and win the lottery again.
I think the pick had to be "protected" because they had already traded away their 2016 pick to get rid of Jack, which means that they can't trade their unprotected 2015 pick unless they have another guaranteed 2015 first round pick, which they don't. They had to add some level of "protection" that deals with the consequences of not being able to trade their 2015 pick.
They own 3 draft picks ... they gave up the pick the got from Miami back when LeBron left in 2010.
If I were Minny, I would've taken the Bulls offer. It included Mrcic, McDermott, Butler, and a pick.
The best offer I heard reported was Taj, Mirotic, and Butler, but that was apparently a fake offer leaked by the Wolves.
Think it was supposedly McDermott not Butler. Butler is a good player, but I wouldn't think of Taj, Mirotic and Butler as equal value for Love if I were the Wolves' GM.
That's a good trade for Minny. Love is a great offensive player with mediocre defensive game. I know people keep looking at the stats with him and they are impressive, but who on that team other than LeBron and Varejao are even average defenders? I mean, Kyrie could be a good defender but hasn't shown it, and maybe Waiters if he can get his head out of his butt. But that team isn't going to slow people down with Love at the 4/5, and they've basically traded away any good young players who could turn into solid defenders down the line.
I know LeBron wants to win now, but the Cavs look like a regular season team that will win 50+ games and then flame out in the playoffs when they can't stop good offenses.
The Cavs are a lock for the ECF.
look out for my Pacers this year! With our starting line up, it's not unreasonable to think that we could average 82-85 PPG this year. Who can top that?!
Now all the Heat bandwagon passengers are gonna jump on the Cavs. For the record, Lebron will not surpass Kobe, let alone MJ, for championship rings.
Gave up too much. Won't work out. LOL, Cleveland.
How do you figure?
They essentially swapped Bennett for Kevin Love. All they gave up was Wiggins. I mean, if you figure Love isn't worth Wiggins potential then I can see that and they still have 2 first round picks in next years draft.
The eastern conference is still boring to watch. Their best team is #5 in the west at best.
I agree, and I watch more Eastern conference. I have doubts that any teams other than Miami and Indy would make the playoffs in the Western conference last year.
Cleveland wins at most 1 title with this team, and in 5 years they are really going to wish they kept Wiggins.
I don't think you know Cleveland fans very well. If in 5 years we win championship, that will still be one championship more than the last 50 years for any team in any major sport in NE Ohio. Fans that have spent lifetimes devoted to failure will take what they can get.
Right with you there, albeit younger. In the first ten years of my existence the Indians lost two World Series, the Browns moved to Baltimore and the Cavs were too miserable to even be on my radar until ~99. The Cleveland fan in me still feels that they'll find a way to fumble this shot away in a choke for the record books. So yeah, 1 would be just fine for me. The only title in any sport I've ever experienced was OSU in 2003, and I very much enjoyed that feeling so I'd like to feel if again.
1 is all I need.
Bold prediction for a collection of wayward talent like the cavs. I think they make it to the ECF, but lose to the Bulls
I think it's a toss up assuming Rose is healthy. Lebron is an all time great. To me, he ends up being top five all time. If you have two superstars, you really just need complementary players around them.
So Cleveland gave up 2, #1 overall picks plus another first round draft pick for a player who could have signed with them next year as a free agent? Minnesota needs to give their GM a raise.
It seems like you don't
Who cares where they were picked if they aren't good players? Bennett was actually okay with going to the D-League last year.
The pistons don't finish higher than 4th in the Central for the foreseeable future
That's too bad. I'm primarily a Bulls fan but enjoyed watching the Pistons with Grant Hill at the Palace when I was in school. I wish he didn't get injured. He could have had a special career.
pull a SF out of their ass, I really don't see them being better than Detroit this year. There's literally no scoring on that team outside of David West now that they won't have Lance and PG. Took two of the three best options away from the league's 22nd-best offense. Defense will definitely suffer too without Stephenson and George. Stuckey and Chris Copeland aren't exactly Bruce Bowen. It would be a bad, bad sign if the Pistons aren't better than Indy this year.
Kevin Love is a player I really like but he hasn't played in a big game since college. And I think UCLA was blown out of the NCAA tourney. Irving is similar. Will the guys from 2-8 be able to make plays defensively and offensively in big games?