OT: Junior hockey player facing criminal charges for elbow
Atlanta thrashers draft pick patrice cormier has been suspended and charged with assult for an elbow to the face that sent mikel tam into convulsions on the ice. although i don't agree with the criminal charges he faces up to 18 months if conviced.
I wonder if Tam's age played a role in seeking criminal charges. The severity and intent of the blow is unwarranted upon anyone, but to send an 18-year-old into violent unconscious conniptions, cause brain trauma, and possibly end a career before it even gets started might appear especially objectionable to whichever governing body (the QMJHL, the Quebec City Police Department, I don't know) determined that the hit was vicious enough to prosecute in court.
this is on par with a guy taking a swing at another on a random blacktop basketball court and the victim hitting his head hard on the ground. charges would come from that, no?
um...i guess so? that doesn't sound like complete disagreement
Man he barely even nudged him. I was expecting something a lot bigger.
I don't think that this warrants a charge/conviction and IMO sets a very dangerous precident for hockey.
He barely even nudged him? He intentionally elbowed him to the face causing convulsions.. does it really matter how it "appeared" on a youtube clip? Charging a player who commits such an act is a dangerous precedent but letting him walk is not? That is so ass backwards. Maybe this is why we have to have these discussion every couple months. The respect in sports is down to almost zero. It is sickening and sad that we need to legislate respect, but until we do it will just keep spiraling down.. very sad.
How is this different than ANY OTHER elbowing penalty in the game? So now is every minor penalty going to be scrutinized and every hockey player going to be put in jail for any minor penalty?
Dude had convulsions and that sucks but as I said this sets a very dangerous precedent. This was one of thos "million to one shots" where it seems that he just hit him in the right spot unintentionally. I dont' think that there was any malice in the hit and that he was really trying to hurt the kid just trying to slow him down.
And how in the hell does my opinion not mean that I don't have respect for the sport? How is this different than someone getting boarded from behind (which is IMO worse).
These are athletes who are trying to get paid millions of dollars to play an extremely physical game. If this kid goes to jail this would mean that every penalty would be reviewable by courts for the person to go to jail. This does not mean that I condone major crimes done in sports (I.E. cheap shots to the face/neck with the stick, etc) but this hit opens up Pandora's Box for the "blood sucking lawyers".
I agree with you aboot the precident this sets, but that hit was obviously intentional. I think discipline is warranted, just not through legal channels. It should be handled by the league. The kid definitely should be suspended, that was a blatant elbow to the head, not trying to "slow him down".
I think the precedent was already set by the swinging of the stick to the head od Donald Brashear by Marty Mcsorely. Either way this young man missed the open check and went for the elbow to the face. The size of elbow pads now may as well be gauntlets and when used like this cause serious damage. He deserves what he gets. Hopefully the lesson is learned and they both come back healthy and better players.
Side note : I had an opportunity to play juniors out of high school and chose the Marines instead because I figured it'd be safer. Everyone tries to make a name for themselves and sometimes a little too hard.
INSANE.
My question is what was the penalty on the ice? 2m minor for elbowing?
I wasn't comparing the two merely pointing out the fact that players have already done time for their actions in a sporting event. How about if instead of an elbow thrown to the face he stuck his knee out? This wasn't a brutal collision with one player having his head down and getting knocked out this player intentionally threw out an illegal shot to the face. I'm sure if the player popped up after the hit and was fine to continue it would be a non issue. Unfortunately for both parties that wasn't the case. You reap what you sew.
or a player is hurt you want there to be judicial repercussions? That is crazy.
Why don't we just wrap the players up in bubble wrap and let them play with plastic sticks.
Hockey is a dangerous sport. It has inherent risks. Flying pucks, sticks, and bodies will lead to injuries. Should someone be punished if they made a clean hit in an attempt to disrupt a puck carrier that ultimately leads to injury? Of course not, because the intent was not to injur, it was to make a "hockey play". But what Comrier did was not a hockey play. It wasn't even close.
If hockey ever gets rid of physicality and hitting, I'll be the first one to off the television. I love good, gritty, North American style hockey. But what I want thrown out off the game is the wreckless disregard for an opponent.
There are enough inherent risks with any sport even when played within the rules of the game. Hell Shanahan almost cut the St. Louis goaile's head off with his skate a couple years ago completely by accident. Shit happens all the time. When you intentionally go above the rules with intent to injur or just horrible judgement you risk getting serious consequences. I don't think thats a bad precedent at all.
He was thrown out of the game, and the suspension followed immediately.
To me, this elbow was extremely reckless. This was as dirty as they come. Should things like this be prosecuted? There is some precedent with McSorely, or Bertuzzi. It is a physical game, and you have to have control over yourself on the ice. Just becuase you're playing hockey doesn't mean you can do whatever you want. Obviously, the lines become a little more blurred on the ice, and intentions have to be taken into account. Was there any intention of a "hockey play" in this incident? I don't think so. It was a cheap shot, with an intent to injur (though assuredly not to the degree that actually occured).
If I did that to you randomly on the street, this would be a non-issue. Of course we'd be in court. Since there was no obvious "hockey play" combined with the severity of the incident (regardless of injuries, this was dangerous, plain and simple), to me it at least warrants some criminal investigation.
Thank you to mstier for bringing it up. You and you alone are responsible for your actions and the control of your body and equipment on the ice. You have every right to stick out an elbow into someone's head, just as you have every right to swing wildly with your stick at the puck on the ice with a full sweeping follow through. It's a chance you take when you do it. And you should be willing to take whatever is levelled at you as a punishment if something goes wrong.
This guy made the choice to throw the elbow, knowing he had completely missed anything that could have resembled a legal hit. He made his choice and it was a bad one. He chose not to control himself. This continues to happen because players don't want to take responsibility for their choices, and often times they don't have to because it's all "within the context of a violent sport." The dangerous precedent isn't correcting the problem through a courtroom. The dangerous precedent has already been set by saying that if it happens on the ice, it isn't criminal.
While I agree with you that this is not the same as a stick swinging incident and could set a dangerous precedent because it's "arguably" a hockey play, there is no way that he "just nudged him" or that this is only a 2 minute penalty. It's a certain game misconduct if the ref saw it and it certainly was an intent to injure. You are going way overboard trying to make your point.
2 minute minor penalty?? He got a 5 min elbow major, game misconduct + suspension. The difference is 99% of elbows (of the 2 minute variety) are unintentional, the arm came up while trying to throw a legit body check. this was 100% intent to injure hit a guy who was not paying attention... not to mention it was his third "elbowing incident" in about a week. If you can't see the difference then you are part of the problem.
I don't think Cormier should, either.
Cormier hit the guy who just played the puck. Normally there is a window of opportunity to hit a player who just played the puck. Now, sticking out your elbow was stupid. Totally stupid on his part. But plays like that usually result in a penalty, not a guy going in to convulsions. Cormier is not the first player to throw a elbow out like that carelessly.
Heck, JMFJ threw a VERY cheap elbow at Steve Downie a few years ago at the World Juniors (though many felt it was partly a dive, but that's beside the point), and Downie wasn't even playing the puck, just skating down ice beside him... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sf5SanphHBo. Did Jack face charges over that? No. Why not, because Downie didn't go in to convulsions? It was even more cheap than what Cormier did. Are they going to start charging players for all elbows or just those that send players in to convulsions? Or gives them a concussion? Or knocks out a few teeth? What is the precedent being set here?
Compare those to what Conboy and Tropp did to Kampfer. Those two guys just mugged Kampfer from behind Bertuzzi-style. If that didn't result in charges, then I certainly don't think Cormier's elbow deserves it. At least he was playing the player with the puck.
It was awful what happened to Tam, but had he not gone into convulsions, would we even be having this discussion? Probably not, other than saying it was another cheap elbow and Cormier should be suspended a few games.
What happened certainly highlights the issue, but I still feel, at least in this case (especially when comparing to past incidents like Conboy/Tropp), that this is something that should be left to the league, not the court system.
I'm glad I'm not the only "crazy" person here.
Good post. I agree with this. It was a nasty penalty and deserved a suspension but should not be a criminal battery.