Josh Smith has agreed to a four-year, $56 million deal with the Detroit Pistons league sources told Yahoo! Sports.
Pefect pick-up for Joe D! An athletic big guy who can't shoot to play along side 2 other athletic big men who can't shoot!
EDIT: supposed to be in response to bdsisme
to name a few people who are worth a tens of millions(if not hundreds over a career) to a team.
I can damn well say that Miggy is to the Tigers.
Kobe makes a shit ton of money for the Lakers and you could argue paying LeBron anything short of one hundred million dollars a season is a massive bargain considering the value of Miami's franchise now.
You guys should all quit your jobs and be an NBA GM.
You don't have to be a genius to know that Josh Smith is only a value at the 4 or at the 3 when you have bugs who can shoot. He's a bad fit for the Pistons.
I agree, but the team as it is is not necessarily the same team that will suit up on opening night. Even if this team does stay as it is today, at least the Pistons have something that can be considered a strength.
Is everyone forgetting how horrible Iverson was when he came to the Pistons? I love the Pistons and I wanted Smith since last year's trade deadline, so I do hope that he does well, but I am not going to assume that he will do well because of past years
When youre using the abbreviation NBA, you use "an" because the letter "n" starts with a vowel sound, ie, "en". If you actually say national basketball association, you use "a".
Who are your other 2 other athletic bigs?
$14M/year. He's worth it, right? Right? RIGHT?!?
Well...at least Joe D is going out in a blaze of glory. KCP better shoot about 45% from 3pt land as he will be the only guy with range beyond 15 ft.
You dont watch the Pistons do you??? Brandon knight,Charlie V, Singler....
supposed to make us feel better?
No, speaking the truth
Except the league average is 35% which is what Charlie's been around his whole career
Charlie V has been a Piston his whole career? I guess I just missed him!
He lost me at "Do you even watch the Pistons?"
No, we don't watch the Pistons... but we would've if they'd drafted Trey!!!
It's been a week and a half and...yep they're still dead to me.
This would have been decent news a mere 10 days ago. Now it's barely a blip on my radar. Just like how GS signed Iguodala. Like "I wonder how they're fans feel about that move.."
I'm glad that they finally did something....
He doesn't make us a contender.
No one player would make us a contender, aside from LeBron, or a time machine that can give us 1992 MJ.
Exactly. Which is why you build a young nucleus (Trey) and let them grow together without burning cap space trying to become a team that'll lose in the 1st round of the playoffs.
This is just so dumb on so many levels. If there's any year to go young and sacrifice meaningless wins it's this year. The 2014 draft is loaded at the top - not like we have any chance at beating the Heat, Pacers, Knicks, Nets, Bulls, etc.
Whats the point Joe? Go young and build for the future. So stupid
Well, if the Pistons weren't a business determined to make money waiting around and hoping to win a lottery (that the Pistons seem to never fare well in) would be an ok idea. Not saying these moves guarantee sell outs but the team should be more competitive which should translate to selling more tickets.
Also, they have young talent that they are developing and Josh Smith is only 27.
This year, we should've had the 7th pick but we pulled the 8th in the lottery. And guess who went 7th? A guard that I think is much better than KCP. I never liked the lottery for that reason.
That's great, but we aren't going to have a draft pick in 2014.
That's pretty young. And Brandon Knight is 21, just a year older than Trey. I'm not saying this is a top 4 team out East, but this is turning into a team that's expected to contend for a playoff spot. Let's see what they do with Stuckey and Charlie V's contract before teabagging Joe D after he made a reasonably good decision.
I just.... don't understand. I guess we are just going to stay trapped in that fringe playoff team bubble.
Not too enthusiastic about this signing. Seems to me he was better known for his dunks
So many GMs are terrible at rebuilding. If you're going to rebuild, commit to rebuilding. Signing a guy who will maybe help you steal an 8th seed or get a terrible lottery pick is just a waste of money. Just accept that you'll need to suck for a while before you can be good again.
Joe D is under pressure to make the playoffs. You might think it's better to be a lottery pick team again, his boss thinks it's better to make the playoffs.
are generally those made by GMs fighting to save their jobs. "We need to make the playoffs this year" is not a good reason to sign a guy. It's the definition of short-sighted decision-making.
You are the Pistons GM
It has been made known to you, you need to make the playoffs or you are fired.
Do you follow your own advice and "make the team awful so it can stockpile top 5 picks" for the next GM knowing the decisions you advocate on this board will cost you your job but MAYBE make the team better in 5 years? Or do you save your own skin, make decisions that get you the #7 or #8 seed and keep your cushy well paid job that you love?
If you can look in the mirror and say the former you are in the tiny minority.
Honestly if your management thinks that a #8 seed and quick exit is a goal worth striving for and won't commit to a rebuild, I'd think most competitive people would leave for a new job.
Exactly. At that point, it becomes your job to explain to management why rebuilding is a necessity. If you can't successfully do that then maybe you shouldn't be a GM in the first place.
Can you imagine the press conference? "We had a philosophical difference. I believed in building a team the right way; ownership wanted to be the 8 seed in the playoffs, future be damned."
But that's giving Joe too much credit. He's shown time and time again he'd rather put a team out there just over .500 than a sucky one to ger the pieces that win a championship.
"We had a philosophical difference. I believed in building a team the right way; ownership wanted to be the 8 seed in the playoffs, future be damned."
Name me one GM who has resigned and said words even within 80% of what you are saying an honorable GM would have done....in any major U.S. sport. Not sure what planet you guys live in other than the one called Idealism....
Have inherited new ownership that either hasn't pushed them out for their own guy or just left them to continue their good work? Bad GM's don't say it because they don't know if they'll get another job. Good owners don't make ultimatums to GM's doing a good job.
p.s. grats on your nearly 40k mgopoints - wow! Is that 40K individual posts or was there a system in the distant past that garnered some points in faster fashion. Thats 10K a year, what a pace.
Used to be when you upvoted or down voted, and it went to infinity, those points would go to you point total. So mods didn't have to -999999 people, the masses could just neg them to Bolivia. I think you also got points for people posting in your thread, (though I could never confirm that) and I created a lot of open threads with record posts (hockey overtime Tourney game, bowl games, etc). There was also the time where the site crashed and you could only post threads from the App and I was one of the test guys so we'd just have open threads all day long or a week or two.
Then I just kinda lucked out that the system when points started disappearing after a year stopped just as some of my big threads were going to disappear, but not before guys like jmblue, Shoe, Magnus, etc lost enough points to fall behind, evn though they had a big head start.
Seems most competitive people who are GMs in the NBA disagree with you. First, you don't have to completely rebuild by tanking. The best player to serve what your team needs isn't always going to be the #1 pick. The best player, as far as career performance, is rarely the #1 pick. So, why you guys think having a higher pick guarantees something is beyond me.
If this team becomes competitive and reaches the point of 6-8 seed in the East, then they are reasonably one player away from competing for the conference and competing for an NBA title.
Also, your best chance as GM at accomplishing your job is 1st keeping your job.
Your last sentence is the key. Anyone who believes in the "tanking for 7 years" philosophy does not get the chance to finish the job unless you are Elgin Baylor or Matt Millen. And those two doofus' didn't finish anything except destroying franchises.
I am not playing devil's advocate out of spite, I am simply shaking my head at what some people advocate.
Owner: Joe, you've now had 2 years under me and 5 years since you blew this thing up, I think it is time we make the playoffs.
Joe D: Mr. Gores, you don't understand how to build a franchise. I want us to continue to tank for another 3 years so we can continue to add pieces. Because I am not competent enough to find high end talent anywhere but in the top 6 picks. And on that note, I resign and wish to have a press conference explaining that we had a philosophical difference and you wanted to win, and I wanted to tank.
Owner: Sounds great.
If they'd stop winning games at the end of every season when no one else is maybe they wouldn't have to. They've sucked for years and years because they win just enough to not be horrible, but are never good. Now they're making moves to be average, but never great. I guess that's progress.
You mean like the Celtics who just traded away everything to start rebuilding? Or San Antonio, who took the opportunity to suck when they could to get Duncan then fire their oath and have the GM take over? Who are these competitive GM's who try to win as much as possible every season?
Every tem is one player away from competing for the title if that one guy's name is LeBron. Who is this one guy an 8 seeded Pistons squad is going to acquire and how?
So you imply either Joe D is not competitive or one of the few competitive people happy to make management content with its dream of an 8 seed. Otherwise he would have resigned in an "honorable" way out of principle.
Interesting viewpoint people. I am trying to think of any GM in the history of GMs who has taken the stance espoused on this thread by the dreamers.
Especially considering the guys that are going to be in the 2014 Draft, management should realize that doing bad this year really wouldn't be horrible.
He provides everything aside from shooting. He gives you rebounds, blocks, steals and assists at SF/PF position. He is an underrated defensive player. Dumars is valuing athleticism and wants the team to run based on his recent off-season.
I think that they're planning on moving Moose and Knight or Stuckey and someone else for a good PG. Rondo could be a target.
Trading moose LOL
Rondo is not going to be a Piston. Let's let that pipe dream die right now.
friends. Rondo wants to be traded. It could very well happen. Not a pipe dream if Celtics are literally trading everybody away..... If Pistons can package Monroe, Stuckey(expiring contract) and Knight for Rondo, I would be happy with the trade.
Who would run the point?
but PF/C position is overcrowded with Smith, Monroe, Drummond and a few other players like Mitchell, Jerekbo, etc. If they want a quality PG, they're better of trading either Monroe or Drummond to get one. I prefer them trading Monroe over Drummond if I have to choose.
of personnel assessment because of his potential. If he can get his head right, he will be an useful player for the Pistons. There is a reason why he's projected as a lottery pick a year ago. Players like Mitchell don't grow on tree and they got a big time steal at 2nd round.
My bet is Dumar is looking to trade for a PG. Remember, 17-18 million will be off the book by 2014 season thanks to Charlie V, Stuckey and Kratsov expriing contracts. They can amnesty Knight, taking an additional 4-5 mil off the book.
I believe the contract had to be signed pre-lockout in order for it to be amnesty eligible.
Weird that your comments make the most sense, yet they are negatively rated. The Pistons have already expressed interest in Rondo so you are correct that they are clearly looking for a PG.
for reasons to dislike the Pistons or are a hater. They can't handle the actual truth of what Joe D have done in terms of rebuilding the Pistons. The young core is very good and should contend once they mature. They'll be singing in a different turne once Pistons becomes a contender within a year. I'm willing to bet that they will make the playoff next season.
I saw something on ESPN where they had players over the past 8 yrs who averaged 17 PPG, 8 rebounds and 4 assists. Lebron did it last year, Smith did it, Kevin Garnett did it twice, and Gasol did it once.
That is not bad company. Yes he checks out of games mentally but aside from Drummond he instantly becomes the most athletic Piston and that is something the team sorely lacks. They also lack scoring. To me is a poor man's Garnett (at his prime) which is ok for this team.
The thing I think alot of people are forgetting is that we have to spend 90% of the salary cap as part of the new CBA.
Will Bynum could've gotten a 1 year 17 million dollar deal.
I wouldn't doubt there are situations where this makes perfect sense.
You take on expiring contracts for draft picks.
That's a pretty strong opinion of a guy who brought more than one NBA Championships to Detroit as a player. Maybe you don't like him as an owner, but honestly ease up on the severity of your opinions. I'm thinking you're too young to remember him as anything but an owner.
I think you shouldn't take his post so seriously. I'm sure he means sports hate.
I strongly dislike Joe Dumars (he's not the owner by the way) for what he has done to this organization the past 5 years. Yes hate is a tad strong, but don't take everything so seriously either, this is indeed a case of a jaded pistons fan.
and my bad for the "owner" label. President of Operations is indeed what I meant. And I understand the jaded Piston's fan mindset. I truly do.
Well they(Pistons) are definitely better with him (Smith)than without him that much is certain.
being better is a net negative. All it does is get them a worse draft pick in a loaded draft. There is no benefit in the NBA to being mediocre.
...they're not going to get to the ECF in one year.
down the road if they keep drafting awesome young talent. This signing makes it less likely that they will do so.
But they owe Charlotte their 2014 pick if its not top 8. So they'd either have to tank and not improve the roster at all and hope they land top8 (which isn't guaranteed since there will be a lot of tankers this year and the threshold will be lower), or they could accelerate their timeline. They chose the latter and this all stems from the bobcats ben Gordon + 1st for magnetite trade that necessitated they use the cap space they paid to create. I don't agree with that move, but a big FA signing was long in the works. I think the bigger issues are with it and leadership. Smith brings spacing concerns and needs to be surrounded with shooters and needs a be presence around to reign in his shot selection. I'm lukewarm on this overall.
for them to tank. The fact that their pick is only top 8 protected makes this decision far worse in my mind, not better.
But this might be owner mandated. These things tend to be more complicated than we see. Good ownership that allows patience and process to prevail and that is often underrated
I have no idea whether this is coming from Dumars, from ownership, or from both.
But wherever it's coming from, it reflects a lack of commitment to a strategy. The Pistons have been surprisingly successful the last few years in the draft, and have actually built a young core of legit talent, that, in a few years, might be really good. Especially if they can add a couple more pieces through the draft. Signing Josh Smith now is the classic bad management two-step of (1) committing to rebuilding, then (2) deciding that losing sucks, and making a panic move to get back to the gray area between rebuilding and competing. There are very, very few instances where that has worked in either the short term or the long term.
I agree with your thoughts. Problem is Joe D now has a sword hanging over his head. Plus they are mandated to spend 90% of the cap. So what would you do with the money to preserve the Pistons "suckyness" to stockpile high draftpicks?
The Piston's brass (Joe and Owner Guy) has already stated the plan is to win. So there's no lack of commitment to their strategy. Josh Smith, in their eyes, will make them a better team that is closer to competing in the East. Whether that's true or not is up for debate. Also, keep in mind the season doesn't start until late October, there are still moves on the table... potentially.
They don't have a draft pick in that loaded draft unless it is in the top 8. Otherwise it goes to Charlotte. And if they're picking in the top 8, Dumars is fired. So you're basically saying he should quit his job.
If he can't convince them that rebuilding is the quickest path to success then he shouldn't have a job
I don't understand this mindset of "don't get better so you can possibly get a high draft pick and draft a player that can maybe make a really bad team slightly better". What's up with that?
you aren't a loser...
The people on this board, or all around the world, who would tank a whole season for a shot at a draft pick are the same people who wanted GRIII to be ok but not great this year so he stays for next year.
They are also the same people who want Gardner to be good this year but not great so he returns in 2014.
I think those people are lame. To get mad at the pistons (or lions some times) for winning games after they are out of it is to deny the whole heart and soul of sports; it isn't about draft picks or next year; it is about right here right now.
Dumars is trying to get better and not tank and people like Omar are willing to throw him out of town...
you play the game to win, plain and simple.
ps. outside of a few misses (darko, rodney white) the pistons have drafted very well for their draft position the last ten years. I know you don't want to believe me but go look at some other teams drafts in the same time period and tell me how they compare.
edited for language... I actually believe calling someone is a pussy is misogynistic...
The Pistons are now one solid player away from having a good team. Not a great team... But a good team. It's been awhile.
Now go get Rondo Joe D...
Considering Tiago Splitter got 9 million a year, Calderon got over 7 million a year tyreke evens got 11 million a year it was going to take high number to get Smith
I understand Im not the biggest fan of the signing but considering we had to spend the money (to be over the required 90% of salary cap spent) he was out best option once we missed out of Andre Iguodala
Splitter and Calderon(who is an underrated PG but can't play defense). 14 mil is kind of a steal for a player in his caliber.
Calderon at 7 million for 4 years is a bad deal. The guy can't guard anyone. Splitter might be a center, but that's about all you can say about him. The Heat killed him in the final and as far as Smith being a name, well so is Splitter. With him people always look at his potential, well at some point you have to deliver and Splitter hasn't.
And we're still a team without a point guard. And everyone that people kept saying were going to play point guard are going elsewhere.
None of the four in this convo are really worth that money. Such is life, shitty deals, etc
Actually he's not even top 30 salary. Hoopshype.com
isn't among the top 30 most expensive contract. They're paying him as a top 40-45 player which he is. If you look at production, it's right in line where he should be paid. He averaged 17.5 ppg, over 8 rpg, 5 apg, 2 spg, 1 bpg last season. That is a monster stat for anybody. His defense is underrated since he allowed less than 1 PPP in iso, pick and roll situation, etc. He brings stat stuffing and elite defense to the team.
I swear I've heard this story before...
Slow your roll buddy. McHale re-established the Celtics as a power franchise just a few short years ago.
That was Ainge.
No, Ainge just happened to be there when McHale gave up on Minny. It was a joke that clearly missed the mark.
Larry Bird?? The pacers aren't one solid pg away from the NBA finals or anything, and they did have Danny Granger vs the Heat
I seem to remember Larry Bird won coach of the year (and actually deserved it) and manager of the year (and again deserved it.) Unless I'm remembering this wrong he's one of the better front office guys in the NBA.
Larry Bird has been quite successful kind sir.
If the job of a gm is to put together a winning product then Joe is a proven top 5 gm.
He has 1 league championship. 2 conference championships and 6 division championships.
Only kupchak 4/6/7, Buford 3/4/8 and Riley 2/3/3 have a better track record. Danny Ange is also tied with Joe at 1/2/6.
This is a simplistic way of looking at things but what really means more than winning in professional sports?
So the 04 championship now means nothing? He just sucks despite putting that team together? Thomas and Jordan truly suck as executives - Joe put together a championship which is more than can be said for 25+ NBA execs in similar positions.
Not a defense of the past 5 years or so but 3 of those years he was hamstrung without ownership. And unless you draft a superstar you won't have one coming to Detroit.
List of winners the past 15 years: Lakers, Spurs, Pistons, Heat, Celtics, Mavericks. That is it - 6 teams. And he did it without a superstar unlike all those other teams.
How are we going to draft a superstar when our position is consistently 8-15? Oh, that NBA title was nearly a decade ago.
Yes, Joe struck lightning in a bottle in '04 with underappreciated talent like Chauncey, Sheed, Rip and Ben. That was a great team but it was also the exception to the rule. Free Agents like Ben Gordon, Charlie V and Josh Smith aren't going to get it done especially without a real PG on the team like Chauncey.
in Drummond at #9 pick. Drummond is on his way to superstardom and should be the top C in the league when all is said and done.
There's superstar to be had at mid to late 1st round. Just need to find one and develop them properly.
But it really isn't a bad thing. Team will be very athletic and fun to watch at the very least. We can all complain about none of our bigs having range, but realistically how often do you think all three of them will be on the court at once? We have 96 minutes to spread between the 4 and 5 spots and 3 really talented guys to take them. IMHO Drummond will not start. Smith will start at the 4 and Monroe at the 5. Drummond will sub in for one of them. Figure 35 minutes a game for Smith and Monroe and 30 a game for Drummond and you only have 4 minutes where all three need to be on the floor. That will be four minutes of suffocating D and (hopefully) lob city east.
Assuming KCP turns out okay we are realistically one solid PG (Teague?) and a decent shooting SF from being really good. If we could somehow sign Teague with our remaining cap space and trade Knight for a SF we would be in good shape.
There, I have convinced myself.
Nothing makes you guys happy. Bitch because they suck. Make a move, bitch because now they won't have as high of a draft pick.
What is the point in making a move just to make a move? This is Ben Gordon and Charlie V part II. Overspending on mediocre players that won't win you a title but will prevent you from having the chance to draft someone who will is bad policy. You end up with the Pistons of the last few years.
No one enjoys that.
Maybe the new CBA???
Josh Smith isn't mediocre.
averaged 17 ppg, 8 rpg, 4 apg, 1 bpg, 1 spg for the season and is mediocre, I'd like to know who else is mediocre...
If we're not competing for titles then whats the point?
Trying to get better so that maybe in a year or two you are competing. Unless you think teams always go worst to first.
Do you not expect us to bitch about our teams?
hell yeah. I am rooting for a 10 win season. gets us a top 3 pick and more than likely Joe D will be tossed to the curb.
Well, we're gonna dominate the paint for the foreseeable future, but passing on Burke is making less sense to me, now. We essentially have 3 bigs starting who all play in the paint, Burke couldve set them all up nicely, we could've easily gone with a small backcourt, plus Burkes additions on defence we'd suddenly be one of the better all around defending teams in the NBA. We really could use a class facilitator with this lineup. It's Knight or nothing to make this team go...
I remember a couple weeks ago when I was a lifelong Pistons fan...feels good not to care. Go Bobcats! (If you're going to dump your favorite team, you have to start at the bottom #onlyright).
I'm sure Joe D is not interested in a building a championship team thru the draft strategy at this point. Not with his butt blistering so much from the heat coming from his seat these days. Besides this is not a terrible move as it makes the front court one of the more imposing with Air Georgia's shot blocking ability to match what Drummond brings. It's gone be no fly zone nights at the Palace indeed!
Petway to the Pistons?!?
I don't love it but I don't hate this like everyone else. At least the pistons will be back in the playoffs. Hopefully we go sing Teague and billups now!
You think this automatically puts them in the playoffs??
With Boston tanking, Yea I think we are at least the 7 seed.
It doesn't automatically put them into the playoffs, but Atlanta, Milwaukee, and
Boston all got significantly worse this offseason. Detroit got better, and has the potential to still get even better yet. Washington is definitely going to make the playoffs next year, and Cleveland will probably improve a great deal. It will be a battle, but they should get in.
Awesome. Let's make the playoffs and give the Heat a run for their money.
This isn't college Bball where you can build on your success via recruiting. This is the NBA that's built for parity - why doesn't anyone understand this?
Thank you. Felt like I was taking crazy pills. I know I'm a homer but would have been awesome to see Burke with Drummond and Monroe with a stud coming via draft next year (Parker, Wiggins, GR3, etc).
Can't the Pistons sign Dave Bing again? He'll be looking for work soon.
Didnt Joe D trade our pick away for the 2014 draft with that Ben Gordon deal/contract last year? If so he had to sign someone because that was the reason he did it to clear cap space for this free agency.
P.s. If someone knows more about it and could help out it would be appriciated
only if we are outside the top 8, then the pick goes to the bobcats
Gotcha Well then that was kinda a tough spot to be in I guess cause they would have had to totally tank or get lucky in the lottery not to lose the pick. I dont really like the pick either I definatly see a trade for a PG coming...........
hoping this is a sign and trade with houston for asik and lin
than we can deal them and Jerebko and Middleton
another piss poor signing
But doesn't fit in Detroit. They have Drummond and Monroe taking all the mins at the 5. And Lin is overplayed.
Give me Smith over Lin and Osik any day.
Interesting fact: Only two players averaged 17 points, 8 rebounds, and 4 assist for the whole season last year.. One was Lebron James and the other was, you guessed it Josh Smith! The Pistons will be solid and that is better than being the league punching bag! I don't think I could have survived another season like last year's.
I couldn't believe that he is only 27 when I was looking up his age, as it seems he's been in the league forever. He is a very consistent player at least, in you know what you're going to get from him the next 4 years. If they can get someone to stand out in the PG position, I think they'll make the playoffs next year as a 6-8 seed.
CBSSports has a short writeup on some of the reasoning behind the deal (LINK).
Matt Moore had this to say:
"The Pistons reportedly want to play Smith at small forward alongside Gregg Monroe and Andre Drummond, which would avoid a concern about a logjam in the frontcourt. The concern here is that it leads to Smith as more of a perimeter option, which leads to his dreaded jumpshot."
It also mentions that Josh Smith had been a popular Plan B in the Dwight Howard sweepstakes supposedly, so this is Dumars' way of making something of a splash, it would seem.
But we're tying up our salary cap flexibility long term for a guy who is out of position at small forward, is best at the same position as our best player, can't shoot but jacks up threes anyway even though we were "in desperate need of outside shooting", has been a problem player who doesn't go all out all the time and is the poster boy for everything people complain about the NBA,, and has never been an All-Star. Uhm, yay?
7 seed for the next 5 years, here we come! But we'll probably have a new owner before we have a new banner.
Who or what are the pistons?
But if you're then basically just replacing the younger Monroe with Smith how much better have you made your team?
Well, considering before he got hurt, Rondo was one of the 10 best players i the league, and that he's on an amazing contract, a lot better.
Landing Rondo would make Pistons a legitimate top 5 team in the conference. Throw in the fact that LBJ might leave Miami after 2013 season to the Western Conference team, the Eastern Conference got weaker.
Look at Memphis and Indiana, they have big time spacing issues with lack of shooter on the roster. They are still fine. Although, their defense is at an elite level which helps. Pistons have 2 frontcourt players who can defend the paint in Drummond and Smith. If they trade Moose for Rondo, Rondo is another quality perimeter defender. KCP is another potential quality defender based on his athleticism. Joe Dumars is trying to make his team younger and more athletic this off-season and he accomplished it. I bet Mo Cheeks will let them loose with a bit of a run and gun style which fits the roster well.
For misconceptions and just utter wrongness. Congratulations!
Yeah. I'm going to go ahead and say you don't know anything about the NBA.
Let's see...Miami, Indiana, NY, Brooklyn, Chicago. Maybe we compete with Cleveland or Milwaukee for a playoff spot? Sweet long term strategy!
So what would be your plan? Let's hear it.
Go young, sacrifice a couple years when we wont contend anyway and build through the draft. Detroit isn't attracting any LeBrons or Durants.
NBA is unique in that one guy can completely turn your franchise around - there are only 5 guys on the court at one time which makes it so much more reliant on stars. We may not like it but that's the deal.,
Monroe and and Drummond are great pieces. Why not be patient and build around them especially when LeBrons going to have his way in the East for a few years?
We aren't bad enough to tank, even without Smith. Monroe, Drummond, and Knight are all solid players, and if we drafted Burke over KCP, who you seem to be claiming will be a borderline all star caliber player, there's no chance we'll be in position to get any blue chip caliber prospects in the draft. We also traded away our 2014 draft pick (top 8 protected), so that blows a hole in your plan right off the bat.
If you tank, you risk losing your good young pieces. If we tanked this year, do you think Monroe would want to re-sign with us? Or would Drummond in a few years? The young core has been built through the draft, now you gotta build around them. CV and BG signings were awful and set us back years. We're out from under that next year and the Smith contract isn't as devastating as people are making it out to be. It'll be a movable piece in a few years if it doesn't work out.
NY and NJ are relying on two of the oldest rosters in the league. If you think they'll be healthy come playoff time, I'll take that bet. The Pistons could be a top 4 team in the East with some luck.
are Miami(who may be broken apart after 2013 season anyway with Bosh's albatross contract[amnesty option] and LBJ may opt out of his contract) and Indiana.
NYK, Brooklyn and Chicago are solid but have flaws that prevents them from winning the NBA. They're not good enough to reach elite status but could be bad enough if breaks aren't in their way that lower tier teams could steal the playoff spot from them.
Eastern Conference is bad that Pistons can make the playoff with the current roster and still improve into the top tier conference.
But he's close enough that it's not worth arguing. "When he was healthy" is kind of a big point to gloss over. Won't know if he's healthy till probably well into the season with some games under his belt. If you were talking Smith for Rondo it's less of a risk because of the years. You're giving up 5 good years of a player's career. Or if you could somehow keep Monroe now you're talking. But significantly better? Is being a 5 or 6 seed that much better than a 7 or 8? You're the one who said there were so many point guards out there they're not as valuable (even though none are signing here....but there's still 8 million left to play with). But it's still not a championship team (unless you really believe Drummond is going to be a top ten player in the League); and there won't be flexibility to add anyone. Though it may be the worst shooting playoff team of all time.
There are a lot of quality point guards (think Mike Conley, Jrue Holiday, Brandon Jennings, Jeff Teague, Goran Dragic), but that doesn't mean you shouldn't get one of the elite point guards (CP3, Rondo, Westbrook, Rose) when you have the opportunity. Especially one who is a great defeder, rebounder, and facilitator like Rondo.
We could basically build our team in the mold of Indiana. A monsterous defense and rebounding club, that grinds you out, and wears you down. That seems to be the direction we're going regardless of whether we land Rondo or not.
As far as the championship talk. Let's be realistic. We first have to actually make the playoffs consistently before we can talk about championships. That is aside from the fact that any given season there are only 2 or 3 teams capable of winning a championship. As Dork Elvis says, the key to building a championship caliber team is to gather as much silver as possible and eventually trade that silver in for gold. That seems to be what the Pistons are doing. Josh Smith is another silver piece to go along with the ones we already have.
It takes time to build a championship caliber team in the NBA, and the Pistons are far too good to tank, even without Josh Smith. Unless you're advocating trading Monroe and Knight for picks and just completely starting over, this was a good move. As I've pointed out before, tanking doesn't work any better than building a team through trades and free agency. Even when you hit, it still might not work out. Just ask Orlando (Shaq, Howard), or Cleveland (LeBron).
If you can get Rondo you pull the trigger. But I'm not sure a line up of Rondo, Smith, Drummond is attracting any "gold" free agents. And you're a team without a small forward again. (And don't really have te parts to trade for a gold player either). I'm just saying a guy like Teague and keeping Monroe sounds better than giving up Monroe, who you'd certainly trade for Rondo...but I'm not sure I'd trade him for Smith.
So if you've tied your hands in free agency and trade pieces, all you have is the draft. I'm not so sure they're all that great that they can't be in the bottom 8; take their end of season annual worthless win streak and they were a lot closer to the top of the lottery than the playoffs. And they're certainly due a lucky bounce. You keep saying "Knight" like him at point makes this team better, not worse. And for the second time it looks like we're going to get nothing out of the most talent rich draft in a decade.
It's not a horrible move; it just gets us squarely into NBA purgatory. You gradually build when you have something to build around. You don't get all the parts then go find a centerpiece.
That is Joe Bumfeeler's opinion, not that of a journalist.
I hate Joe D more than any GM in sports outside of Mayhew who is actually worse. no man has ever milked a championship more than Joe. he should have been fired at least one season ago.
Uh, Mayhew has actually drafted well and made some good free agent signings. Not really sure how you can lump them together in anything other than lack of championships in the last 5 years.
He's not milking anything. He had one bad run with free agents a couple of years ago. He also drafted Moose and Drummond, two steals given their location, and has tried to keep a team with no marquee attractions and appeal relevant. This is an okay signing, and while I don't love Smith, he was the only likely FA they could have gotten.
go Jazz and fire Dumars
He's a bad fit, but the Pistons had to do something with all of the big name players coming off the board. If Joe D didn't land Iggy, Howard, Paul, or Smith, it would have been a massive failure.
Collect blue chip players and worry about the fit later.
If he manages a Monroe for Rondo trade, then no one will be worrying about fit.
I am however, not looking forward to watching Josh Smith jack up a bunch of long twos.
Think about it like this, this give us lots of felxibility in front court. We can play Dre and Smith vs teams that are athletic as hell. We can go small and play Monroe and Smith. We can go big and play all three. This also opens it up to trade Monroe for a lets say Rondo.
Remember this isnt CV or Ben Gorden, this is an all star, which neither of them have ever been. He is a 18-8-4 guy, and is easily best player on team now. The only bad part of his game is his 3pt shooting and sometimes not really putting in full effort sometimes, still is a plus defender though.
This isnt a perfect move, but it isnt a bad one either.
1- he isn't an all star
2- since when did an 18-8-4 guy become a thing or metric. The old metric was a 20-10 guy. Color me still unimpressed with Josh Smith
So this move makes it understandable why they passed on Trey who many are projecting to be Rookie of the Year. Amirite?
Let it go..
Can everyone let the Burke issue go? He's going to be fine in Utah, and yet that doesn't mean Dumars screwed up not drafting him. I love this blog, but the circle jerks that break out here sometimes are infuriating.
I'm with you. I really like KCP and I think most would too if they weren't so obsessed with the Pistons not taking Burke. Both parties will be happy with how things turned out IMO.
if this blog isn't a Michigan blog, people would be happy with the pick. Every non-Michigan Pistons fans are high on KCP.
The best part about these NBA threads is that it reminds me to update the list of people I block on MGoBlog.
Interesting debates. I don't agree with the loser strategy of tanking the season and hoping on hope that you become a contender through the draft when A) having a higher pick makes zero guarantees that the player drafted will be any more successful and B) with good scouting and about the same amount of luck an impact player can be drafted at a lower position while your team is not as far away from competing. Why would you choose to start from 0 when you have to enter a lottery and hope to get a pick and a player that works?
I'm glad the Pistons aren't following Disney movie dreams and betting on a savior through the draft. Competitive teams build with smart drafting, FA pick ups and developing talent.
$14/year in the NBA is in the low 20s as far as contracts are concerned. And Smith's numbers fit nicely with his pay. Also, keep in mind the roster is not set.
But you're not "scouting your way" to a superstar draft pick. And that's how championship teams are built.
Yes and no. Rondo was a later draft pick, as was Tony Parker and guys like Drummond and Monroe who were later picks than usual. You can't just stink and hope you get lucky; look at the draft this year as proof of mediocre choices in a draft.
The Celtics are a bit of an anomaly because they traded for Garnett and that doesn't happen often (and the Pistons failed in acquiring him, so I'm not sure why I'd believe they can get Garnett 2.0). But they got the guy they put those two around in the draft; Pierce, though much lower. (Right in front of the Pistons in fact. Sigh). But Parker was a part they got after getting Duncan by tanking, so I don't think that's a great example. Foreign scouting is a lot different now than it was then so that's not as likely to happen either.
The Spurs didn't tank they had a crappy season b/c IIRC David Robinson was injured. Even when the Pistons have been "accidentally" bad they haven't gotten a high lottery pick. The only pick was Darko and that was acquired via trade. The thing is even if the Pistons get a great player through the draft, they'll still need other pieces. Why not set yourself up to be a piece or two away from competing when that piece could come from the draft, free agency or via trade instead of just banking on the draft?
I find it interesting that while some are questioning Joe D's ability to do his job you and a few others want him to hope luck does the job for him.
They made sure they would suck as much as possible. Then Pop fired his coach and took the job himself so he could be the guy coaching Robinson AND Duncan.
They've never been puposefully bad under Joe, they annually go on win streaks that mean nothing, and certainly haven't begotten any more winning, when everyone else is positioning themselves for the lottery.
The piece? Can't come from the draft. They not drat high enough, and stupidly gave away their draft pick for the best draft in a decade? Free agency? This is the biggest signing they've ever had. And he's never even been an All-Star. Who or how are they going to get a superstar to want to sign here? And the grand total of guys traded for a chsmpionship is what....Garnett and Shaq? Before that, what, Kareem?
I don't think your last point is that strange. When all the good moves a guy has made in 8 years is due to luck you hope for a lot of luck.
I don't recall them sucking as much as possible by choice. Popovich inserting himself as coach seems to have been a great move. Also, they already had a very good team, injuries put them in the lottery. You're saying the Pistons shouldn't get better and purposely become a bottom-feeder on the off chance they get a great player. Next year is a deep draft, but none of those players are guaranteed to fall to the Pistons and none of them are guaranteed to work out as some superstars have.
I didn't say the key piece cannot come from the draft but if it does you'll still need additional pieces and no championship team has gotten them all from the draft. If you wait on the draft all your eggs are in a basket with significant structural issues, while if you don't depend on the draft you could still benefit from it, albeit from a lower pick, while having the opportunity to take the final few steps through other means, free agency and trades.
Smith not being an All-Star is hardly a knock on his game as there are maybe 8 front court positions and 3 of those go to pure centers, then there's Lebron and Carmelo who are pretty much guaranteed a spot. So there are maybe 3 spots and Smith was 7th in votes in the East.
(Dang this is getting long) Also, there are many more trades that have benefitted a champion, Kobe was traded to the Lakers, Sheed to the Pistons.
M-Wolverine is right, that the Spurs tanked, but it was a weird season for them. They probably shouldn't have gotten the number 1 pick, and the Cs were more in line for it, but tanking almost never works. You can argue it does, but I'd like to see the evidence. Guys being picked 8, 9, 10, 13, are not evidence that tanking works, those aren't picks you tank for.
Like I said with the silver and gold thing, you might not be able to sign any marquee free agents due to signing Smith, but you can definitely trade for a superstar with a guy like Smith. Someone who otherwise might be not willing to go to the Pistons might consider it thanks to the roster we have now.
Edit: Just to be clear, I love talking NBA with you, so grazie, friend.
I like the fact that Joe D has made a big move that gets the Pistons closer to competing. A piece or two more through any means could get the Pistons (close) to the top of the East. No one has a frontcourt like the Pistons potentially have (since Drummond and Monroe still need to develop).
Also, I hate the draft lottery b/c the Pistons always get screwed. They always stay where they are or drop (like this year) while Cleveland wins 3 lotteries in about a decade.
So there was bound to be one thing we differ on. (Though not as much as either of us thinks because I'm probably just frustrated and you're enjoying playing devil's advocate a bit more).
Even I wonder how all this would look if Burke was acquired before signing Smith. (Or if they had hired a coach that wasn't the poster boy or NBA retreads).
For the most part I think guys like Cool and ll made this a much more logical discussion than the last couple of NBA spats. Not to get it all fired up again, but just to both of you, I think trading for a superstar is really hard. Drafting them in a town like Detroit is your best bet. Signing is tough too, but a possibility. I hate to say it, but unless you're getting a trade for something spectacular, the most valuable thing the Pistons might have right now are Stuckey and Charlie V. Because all the salary would come off the books next year and give than almost the same money to attract a free agent. Likely to get one? I don't know that a premiere guy is looking to come to the 7 seed, but it's about the oly hope they have now.
And I didn't mean loser strategy as in you guys are losers. Just thought of how that can come off jerkish. Just the losing on purpose strategy itself bugs me.
This thread is more than twice as long as any other currently available on the app. Football season cannot come soon enough. I'm going to go dream about 10-win seasons for the foreseeable future now
The nba has really lost its luster lately. As great as Jordan was, he was the player that changed the nba for the worse. The nba realized that creating superstars makes them a shitload of money. Sorry for the off topic bitching, but college ball is where it's at.
Your first Point is correct. The rest is nonsense.
The NBA gained all its luster first with Magic/Bird and then Jordan.
It lost its luster with Kobe.
To make matters worse, it's Kobe who made it "cool" for athletes to aspire to become both a professional athlete and to brake the law/stay above the law.