OT: Jonah Keri on Fister trade

Submitted by Steve Lorenz on

I found this today and wanted to post it because it's pretty much exactly how I felt about the trade. I am still in semi-disbelief that one of the "perks" of this trade was that Fister is under team control until 2015. What does it matter if a guy is under contract for four more years if he's not that good? Just thought you might find this interesting as Keri is very well respected in the baseball community. 

 

EDIT: Chance Ruffin was the last player added into the deal. As long as it wasn't Smyly, I felt like it was defensible. Fister makes his first start tonight against the Mighty Morphin Texas Rangers. 

 

 

I have this theory that raw park effects and defense-independent stats don't always tell the whole story on a particular player. Imagine you're a pitcher in Petco Park. You know that hitters are far less likely to hit the ball out of the park. Couldn't that change the way you pitch? Isn't it conceivable that you could throw more strikes without the fear of an Earl Weaver Special in the back of your mind, thus improving your strikeout rate, your walk rate, and your overall statistical profile?

I think Doug Fister may have benefited from that effect while pitching for the Mariners. The combination of Safeco Field and an excellent defense behind him may have made Fister feel more secure in throwing strikes. That in turn may have led to some microscopic walk rates (career 1.9 BB/9 IP) which contributed greatly to Fister's success. There are a couple of other more tangible statistical indicators that suggest Fister has had luck on his side, notably a very low home run-per-fly ball rate of 4.4 percent this season. But batting average on balls in play, strand rate, and other oft-cited luck markers don't necessarily suggest a fluke, or a pitcher ripe for regression.

I wish I could properly test my theory to see if there's something to it, but there are too many variables in play, and self-reported data such as "how confident was I when I pitched at Safeco Field" is rarely reliable. But the Tigers' trade for Fister and fellow strikeout-challenged right-hander David Pauley depends largely on whether this effect is real, and if the new guys can adapt to conditions less favorable to pitchers. The good news for the Tigers? They might win a very weak AL Central anyway, even if Fister and Pauley (and recently acquired third baseman Wilson Betemit) fizzle out.

colin

August 3rd, 2011 at 2:54 PM ^

I don't buy Keri's theory, but there's also nothing to suspect he's special in terms of BABIP or HR/FB.  He's probably an average-ish pitcher unless his command abandons him and then he'll suck.  Still way better than what the Tigers were throwing out there.

Also I think everybody can get behind having a guy named Fister on your team.  That's just golden.

joeysos33

August 3rd, 2011 at 4:28 PM ^

A Pitchers Record isn't really telling in baseball especially when you play for the Mariners. 3.33 era is great, and a 1.17 whip which is good as well. 3 complete games this year, and he is a fly ball pitcher, pitching in the spaciest outfield in the country. So yea hes good and yea he is a perfect fit for this team and ballpark. 2 years down the road when our rotation is JV-Turner-Scherzer-Porcello-Fister im sure you wont be complaining.

Blue boy johnson

August 3rd, 2011 at 5:33 PM ^

I like the trade for Fister. Talent wise he is our 5th best starter IMO, If Fister can give us  6-7 innings a start I will be happy with the trade. Any wins he gets are a bonus, something I wouldn't have expected out of our previous 5th starters this season.

I don't think Fister is as good as his numbers this year indicate,(he doesn't have that type of talent), but he instills a helluva lot more confidence at this point, than the guys he replaced.

mdm87

August 3rd, 2011 at 7:24 PM ^

Fister has a 3.55 FIP away from Safeco this season (2.91 at home), which is still VERY good for a #3 pitcher. His .274 BABIP on the road is a tad low, but not unusually low. He's actually walking less hitters away from Safeco (4.8%) than he is at home (5.8%). He should be fine going forward. He'll probably give up a few more home runs, but should still be a very solid #3 guy for the next few years.

Sambojangles

August 3rd, 2011 at 8:45 PM ^

He traded a bad offense and good defense in Seattle for a mediocre offense (as Cabrera grounds into a double play) for an awful defense (2 run-costing errors tonight).

Fister himself looks good so far, and I like the trade. I think anytime you can get a solid, proven starter without having to give up a top prospect, you've done pretty well.

Steve Lorenz

August 4th, 2011 at 1:00 AM ^

Wells hit a GW HR last night and had two RBIs and a stolen base tonight. Furbush pitched 5 solid innings and got the win for Seattle. What's your point? If you're really that myopic, then Seattle has won this trade so far. 

EDIT: And of course I was comparing Petco to US Cellular. US Cellular is a bandbox compared to Petco and it's easy to see that it's one of the primary reasons why he hasn't been the same since he left San Diego. 

Steve Lorenz

August 4th, 2011 at 10:16 AM ^

I never said it couldn't work out for both teams. However, I really feel like Fister is being overvalued and that we gave up more than we should have for a pitcher of his caliber. Most of the time, I feel like Dombrowski has been pretty shrewd in his decision making but this is one I strongly disagreed with. Again (and I have never denied this), I could be completely wrong. 

Yes he fills a much needed void in the rotation His skill set is the absolute worst for a team like Detroit's (which is why I think Porcello is a better pitcher than his numbers indicate) because they play such poor infield defense. There's no way he'll continue to get away with pitching seven innings without striking out one batter without getting into major trouble. 

ChasingRabbits

August 4th, 2011 at 8:12 AM ^

We BOTH won, how is that "Seattle has won this trade so far"?  Looks even so far to me.  I am no baseball stat guy, but Detroit needed a starting pitcher, and you don't get those for free.  We could have offered up some big time prospects to get a front end rotation guy, but we have a couple of those already.  We got a back end guy and gave up pieces that were not in our near term plans.  Wells time will be taken by Kelly and Furbush by Pauley.   In a year you can grade this and call it a loss if thats what it looks like, but right now, we got what we need THIS YEAR and gave up nothing that was going to help us THIS YEAR.  That is a win when you are in a divisional race.