#Pistons coach John kuester fired today
Dumars: “Decisions like this are difficult to make. I want to thank John for his hard work and dedication to the organization over
the last two years, however, at this time we have decided to make a change.”
the coach/players never openly criticized each other even when missing games. They asked Rip point blank and he brushed it off and said it was a misunderstanding. Kuester simply said that players who make the team practice get the nod at starting. Even though things were ugly I was surprised to see how they kept it clean, and dealt with it in house instead of "motivating a player by bashing him in the press" like Zen-master-Phil.
Any doubt I had about this happening was gone as soon as I heard Gores mispronouncing Kuester's name in his press conference.
Not a surprise. He'll probably wind up in LA and reunite with Brown, which is probably a better fit. Always felt like an assistant coach to me anyway.
Wish him luck. Joe D has to get a better fit for this team, preferably someone with a defensive philosophy and/or offensive approach not predicated on having Lebron James around.
I don't think they should be looking to get a coach that fits this team. This team is short on building blocks for the future and has too many overpaid role players. Rip is on the decline, and I have a hard timing seeing anyone making an All-Star team anytime soon.
I would much rather have a coach for the future and start bringing in players to fit that guy's team then try to fit a coach to the underachieving team currently playing at the Palace.
He probably had to go, but at some point this revolving door has to stop. Is Chuck Daly the last Piston coach to last more than three seasons?
Ron Rothstein 1 year
Don Chaney 2 years
Doug Collins 2 years
Alvin Gentry 1 year
George Irvine 1 year
Rick Carlisle 2 years
Larry Brown 2 years
Flip Saunders 3 years
Michael Curry 1 year
John Kuester 2 years
That is 10 coaches in 17 years.
While I love Larry Brown and what he did with the team, I was very sad when we let Carlisle go. He is a great coach, and his teams always have wonderful chemistry together.
Yep. and Stuckey's had three coaches during his four NBA seasons. I am by no means a Stuckey fanboy, or even a Stuckey apologist, but I'm willing to delay his condemnation until he has a) a defined role, b) a competent coach, and c) minutes. His development has clearly been stunted, but he isn't close to a finished product.
Joe was instructed to go for cheap hires. We had gone through so many coaches so quickly that we were paying multiple coaches simultaneously. I believe in Kuester's first season we were still putting up cash for Flip Saunders and Michael Curry.
Rick Carlisle was fired because Bill Davidson had beef with him. Not Joe's fault.
Larry Brown was fired because he publicly flirted with other franchises. Brown's fault. He was a HOF coach that hasn't had success since his stop with the Pistons.
Flip Saunders averaged 59 wins when with the Pistons. The vet players tuned him out. I suppose you will blame Dumars for acquiring those players? However, Chauncey was promptly moved, Rasheed and McDyess weren't brought back, and Ben was already gone. Hm...
Anybody could have told you that there were better coaching options out there than Michael Curry and John Kuester. You knew it, I knew it, Joe knew it. The difference was, he wasn't allowed to go ahead and hire the #1 prospect.
What do you mean after we fired him and hired Brown we won the championship how could you ever say that?
I don't agree. Give Rasheed Wallace to Rick Carlisle in the playoffs, and he would have won the championship too. Carlisle probably would have won the championship again in 2005, instead of flirting with Cleveland during the playoffs like Larry Brown did.
Also, please use sentences. I had to read your comment three times to understand what you were saying.
Larry Brown has a knack for handling the most "difficult" players (i.e. Allen Iverson, Sheed) and getting them to play to their potential while also being valuable teammates. Carlisle is a good coach, but it's so hard to go against Larry Brown.
Rick is known as a choke artist.
I know. He's only coaching the Mavericks to a 1-1 series tie, not a 2-0 lead in the Finals. What a horrible coach.
Agreed. 'Sheed was that x-factor that got them over the hump. I thought Carlisle was a hell of a coach, and I really questioned Joe D when he let him go.
at least according to everything I heard at the time. It was Bill Davidson who insisted on the move. And it wasn't based on his record.
Me and my buddy were just saying the same thing he needs his shot.
My guess is Mike Woodson. Would love to see Adleman, but I doubt he would come here without a gigantic salary.
He was a good WNBA coach, at least. At this point I don't see why not.
Agreed. Bringing in Bill Laimbeer parallels giving the UM job to Brady Hoke. He's a Piston through and through, and the players will respect him for his passion about the team and the sport.
As opposed to Kuester, who only played three professional seasons, Laimbeer has two championships and four all-star appearances to his name. He coached the Shock to three titles, turning the group of girls into Bad Boys. His work with Minnesota can't be discounted, as he has overseen Kevin Love lead the league in rebounds, Darko Milicic finish in the top 10 in blocks, and seen Michael Beasley completely shed the bust label (he's now averaging 19/6).
Kuester was a guard and could not develop Rodney Stuckey any further and mismanaged all three of Rip Hamilton, Ben Gordon, and Tracy McGrady. I believe that Bill Laimbeer, who played alongside Isiah Thomas and Vinnie Johnson and Joe Dumars, will employ the three-guard lineup that Joe envisioned whilst developing our bigs (Jerebko, Villanueva, Monroe, and the rookie we hopefully draft).
Aren't we rumored to be trading Rip along with our first round pick? Or did that fade away?
It's up to Cleveland/Minnesota to sweeten the pot. Joe D wants to get players back. I'm not against using the #8 pick of a weak draft to a) trade a malcontent, b) balance the roster, c) improve our cap situation in light of a CBA change...but if we could get Jonny Flynn or Anthony Randolph from Minny, or Ramon Sessions from Cleveland, I'd be thrilled with Joe playing hardball.
I'd take Flynn in a heart-beat and then move Stuckey to the 2, where he makes more sense. I'm not sold on Sessions or Randolph, but letting Rip go and start over would be better than taking a bench guy at 8.
Yeah, I have no idea why Minnesota reached for Flynn at #6, watched him prove himself, and then cut 10 minutes out of his PT the next season. He's a good player.
Sessions is a reasonably tall PG at 6'2" without shoes. PER36 minutes he puts up 18/7/4, better than Stuckey across the board. He's not a sexy player by any means, but he quietly gets the job done. He'd be a good complement to Stuckey and Gordon for the money.
Randolph is an extremely versatile player, spending time anywhere from SF to C. He reminds me an awful lot of Chris Bosh, who would be my dream partner for Greg Monroe. Here's his highlight vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z85vHk5cc98
I'd make the trade on draft day if Biyombo and Kanter were off the board. Those are the only two reasonable targets I want out of this draft.
near the very bottom of the Eastern Conference and end up with a top 3 pick (knock on wood) and draft Harrison Barnes and move Stuckey to the 2.
There were five teams worse than us in the EC last season. The way I see it, we can only get better.
The ideal situation for Rodney Stuckey is a combo guard off the bench with starters' minutes.
He has just as many weaknesses at SG as he does at PG. He isn't a shooting threat and he hasn't been able to finish consistently at the rim when guarded by taller players.
I would be delighted to land Harrison Barnes. Austin Daye isn't a starter in this league.
They might want Cleveland's #1 next year.
"and the players will respect him..."
I have heard this so many times... and 2 years later the Pistons have a different coach again.
I wasn't a huge fan of his coaching style, but I have to agree that he'd be an upgrade over a retread and would help bring an identity to the team. This team has some parts that could be successful, but there was little real leadership under Kuester and Laimbeer exudes that. Would be interesting.
As a long time Pistons fan, I hope we hire Rick Adelman now.
That's a relief.
If Joe D is going to make up for recent bad decisions, it starts now. Due some serious homework & research and bring us a winner.
He was primed to make moves via free-agency last offseason but Mr. Davidson died and his wife took a whole year trying to sell the team. He still got McGrady for nothing which isn't half bad.
Izzo to the Pistons?
And it probably won't happen...but how funny would it be to lose the two top thorns in the side, Tressel and Izzo, in s couple of months?
I would start hanging out around Schembechler Hall's bathrooms to really start looking for gold.
As long as Tom Izzo gets an interview, and everybody finds out about it, I don't care who they hire.
This next hire is pretty important IMO. I'd like to see some continuity in this organization. Although not sure what a coach can do with all the combo guards on the roster.
We're in the middle of a golden age of point guards. We have Derrick Rose, John Wall, Rajon Rondo, Deron Williams, Dwyane Wade (spends about half his minutes at the 1), and many more to worry about in the Eastern Conference alone. These are tall, athletic players, and conveniently Joe is amassing similar talents.
Both Stuckey and Terrico White are 6'5" in shoes and graded out as top 10 athletes in their drafts. Ben Gordon can hold his own against SGs with his strength (12 bench reps) and wingspan (6'9"). Will Bynum graded out as the 2nd best athlete in his draft, and is useful against the speedier guards. Hamilton, if he remains on the roster, is quite adept at defending smaller players with his height advantage.
I actually like what Joe has done in assembling our backcourt. There are ways to get the most out of our big money players. If Hamilton ever spent time at the SF position in small-ball lineups, there would be enough minutes for all. Assuming no moves are made, a backcourt of
would get the job done. It helps that three of our bigs, Monroe/Villanueva/Jerebko, do well on the perimeter and are playmakers relative to their positions.
Yeah, those players did real well against the great PGs in the league this past year. And it's not like they're young and have potential either. The only one we haven't seen is White and I doubt he becomes more than a 6th man. Stuckey is one dimensional. Should be a combo guard off the bench for a good team, not a starting point guard. Gordon is a good 6th man. Hamilton is going to be shipped out, and even if he's not, I think he needs a good PG to help him out (which we don't have). I love Bynum as a backup PG, but he's never going to be a starter. Villenueva is garbage. Jump shooter, that's it. Love Jerebko and and Monroe. I think the core of the team should be Jerebko, Monroe, and Daye. Everybody else has a price and we should be willing to listen to offers.
I don't know how you think that the lineup you listed "would get the job done." It didn't last year. Or the year before. And won't this year.
Stuckey's 25. Gordon just turned 28. White is 21. Bynum is 28, but hasn't even played three season's worth of games yet. The best indicator of age in the NBA is minutes played, and only Gordon has racked up a lot of minutes.
For all intents and purposes, they are young or just beginning their prime. I'd agree that Gordon's potential is limited at this point (although I'd like to see him improve his ball-handling), but he doesn't need to be any more than he was with Chicago. We haven't let him play his game or given him minutes, and that's on Kuester.
We never have ran with that lineup. I'm advocating having Hamilton play half of his minutes at the SF position AND going uptempo with it. Michael Curry used to go with small lineups (remember Tayshaun starting at PF?), but never increased the pace of the game (we were actually one of the slowest in the league). Under Kuester, we were one of the worst rebounding teams in the league by every metric. We weren't going to win games in the paint, and thus should have pushed the ball and given our best and highest paid players the chance to win some games for us. Both Hamilton and Gordon were horribly marginalized, and that cost us games.
Daye wasn't a bad #15 pick, but he's nothing special. Best-case scenario he ends up a Rashard Lewis type, and I'm betting against him. My ideal rotation has him as an 11th man utility player, backing up SG/SF/PF.
Stuckey is never going to be anything other than what he is right now. A big guard that can get to the hole, with a broken J and below average decision making. He should be the 6th man. But Gordon is a better 6th man cuz he can actually shoot. On an ideal team, they'd both be fulfilling a similar role and I'd rather have the more balanced option off the bench. We haven't even seen White play at all, so there's no way we can make judgment on him either way.
Hamilton can't hold up playing D at SF for extended periods of time. He can get away with his lack of strength at SG because of his length. At SF, he'd be overmatched IMO.
I've been pretty impressed with Daye when he's gotten playing time. I think he's going to have a big role on this team going forward. He's a good shooter and he can defend with his length.
Jumpers can be fixed. Not that I expect Stuckey to represent the Pistons in the Three Point Shout Out anytime soon, but to say that his J will be anything but broken is a bit extreme.
You can have more than one "sixth man". There are 240 minutes to go around, meaning 8 players could average 30 mpg. Some team shorten their playoff rotations down to 7 men, and you'll rarely see a team that has even 10 regulars.
Daye's overmatched at SF, too. He's about the same weight as Rip despite being 4 inches taller, and has even slower feet. Playing Daye at SF for 20+ minutes will hurt us just as badly as playing Rip there for 16 or less, as I propose. Again, I just want to get our best and highest paid players on the floor. At the very least, we need to get the nearly-ruined trade values of Gordon, Villanueva, and Rip back up.
Daye is not a good defender. He's been a "sensational" player. You'll remember the three pointers and come-from-behind blocks that he gets, but will forget about his missed rotations, poor effort, terrible body language, and general n00bery. He's not ready for starter's minutes. Not even on a bad team.
You can have more than one 6th man, but at the same position? Ideally, Stuckey and Gordon would be in situations where they could come off the bench and if that were to happen in Detroit, I don't think they'd be happy sharing alot of minutes. I don't like rolling both out there because both are players that create for themselves and not others. I've seen minimal improvement in Stuckey's J since he's been in the league. I'll take my chances with Daye considering we haven't seen very much of him and I think he has some unlocked potential. You complain about Daye's attitude, but Stuckey's isn't one to write home about. I can agree that we need to get the trade values of our veterans up, but I'm not sure that's going to happen. Even if Rip plays well, he's still getting older, so his stock isn't going to rise much. And Charlie is trash - no idea why we signed him in the first place. Gordon should be playing alot more minutes than he has the past two seasons. Hopefully a new coach will know how to utilize him.
Joe's trying to recreate the 04 championship team.
Stuckey reminds him of Chauncey, a big strong combo guard playing point. Rip is still Rip, and Gordon's even more versatile as a scorer. Joe's always wanted that three-guard rotation, and I think he envisioned Ben playing some PG. Tayshaun's still here, and Daye is another long, rail-thin SF (although he's not a good defender and is more assertive than Tayshaun offensively). Villanueva is another underachieving perimeter-oriented PF that ignores defensive rebounds, a la Rasheed Wallace. Ben Wallace is still here, as well.
I do believe that Villanueva was conceived as a value signing that could be packaged later. If he was putting up Milwaukee level stats we'd be much better off.
Well if that's what he's trying to do, he's doing a poor job. Stuckey and Billups are very different IMO. Billups is a career 40% shooter from 3. Stuckey, not so much. Stuckey is a bit bigger too and lacks the PG and leadership skills that Chauncey developed (in defense of Stuckey, it took Chauncey a decent amount of time to come into his own). And although Rasheed didn't mix it up on the boards as much as he should have, and spent too much time on the perimeter - he was capable of doing the dirty work and was a very underrated defender. Charlie V is a terrible defender (probably the biggest reason why I have no idea what he is doing on our team) and although he has the skills to be a versatile scorer, he rarely takes advantage of it.
I think you'll see some roster reshuffling around the draft, especially if the proposed #8 pick to Minny/Cleveland deal occurs. The next coach will definitely want to see a couple more bigs, but with Jonas (hopefully) coming back and Monroe in the middle, there are some parts there to work with. I do think they need to figure out how they are going to use Gordon and Stuckey together, but there are headaches for every new coach.
Dumars has gone from one of the best front office execs in pro sports to one of the most questionable in a matter of a few years. There is one decision he can make that can start turning back around his reputation along with returning the Pistons to where they were in the early 2000's. This decision should have been made in 2008, and again should've been made in 2009. Don't screw the pooch on this one Joey D, you know what to do:
...punch Larry Bird in the neck?
(I agree. In both interpretations.)
Well played, sir.
We still have no closer. Watch how many times the Pistons were competitive in games this season and then it comes down to the fourth quarter Stuckey is getting the ball and drives to the lane and either gets blocked or is wildly out of control and turns it over. Yeah sometimes he finishes but more often than not it goes the wrong way.
This team has some decent pieces but it still has no central core.
Don't forget that 2004 Pistons not only got Rasheed Wallace but they had Mehmet Okur as a sixth man. Stacked.
Count me in the "Laimbeer for Coach" club. That guy was a beast with the Bad Boys. He has also been winning with the Shock. It's his time now. Make it happen
According to Dumars, two premlinary candidates for the HC position are Kelvin Sampson (please god no) and former Hawks HC Mike Woodson.
He's constantly texting them
would love Laimbeer to be the head coach!
Coach Bill Laimbeer and assistant Rick Mahorn would bring home some much needed Bad Boys attitude.
Maybe Kuester will head out to L.A. and join his old pal.