WDIV just reported that Joe Dumars is resigining. Not exactly a shock.
there would have to be some to wash away
Excellent news to start the day. Any ideas on who they might get to replace him?
"You a-hole, don't give them any ideas," you say.
"Trust me, that idea was already front and center."
hiring IT would be just that. I appreciate the rumors are out there, but with his considerable baggage, I can't believe IT would be a serious candidate. Give me almost anyone associated with OKC, or better yet San Antonio.
Wrote a little on that a while back:
Obviously not even close to a comprehensive list, but has a few names the casual basketball fan might not be aware of. I'd prefer one of the OKC/POR guys because they've functioned in a similar market.
No, but I'll bet a certain coach in EL is already talking to Tom Gores.
Too bad he couldn't finish his GM career as well as he started it. His detractors willfully ignore a lot of good things he did. Dumars has always been one of the really good guys of the game and doesn't deserve the vitriol. The team's record in the past five or so years speaks for itself, though.
Dumars was my favorite player growing up, and I was really excited when he started off so well as a GM. Outside of basketball, he's also a very good guy and a very good representative of the community. And on the court he was just as good of a representation. I mean, the sportmanship award in the NBA is named the "Joe Dumars Trophy".
I hope he continues to be successful at many of the other things he does around and for Detroit, and I wish the end of his GM reign ended better.
Dumars is a classy guy and a great drafter. He just was completely clueless about the financial side of the game. Pretty much every contract and free agency decision he has made after 2007 has been an epic disaster:
letting Amir Johnson and Arron Afflalo get away without getting a single thing in return.
It's time for a change, but I for one am thankful for the great job he did early in his career. The 2004 championship team featured some of the best GM work in NBA history. Best of luck to Joe D in his future endeavors!
and the people if Michigan rejoiced. Thanks for the Bad Boys and 2004, Joe.
Dumars has told multiple sources within the NBA that he plans to resign — possibly as soon as this week — after a busy offseason that included the signings of high-priced free agents Josh Smith and Brandon Jennings and led to an underachieving 2013-14 season. The Pistons, who many experts picked to return to the playoffs in the Eastern Conference, are 28-49 and out of playoff contention.
From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140408/SPORTS0102/304080018#ixzz2yI...
that Gores will pick the best candidate. I hope he does and has the common sense to get out of the way. If he continues to meddle, I have my doubts that the Pistons have reached bottom.
This is our concern dude. With Gores meddling, they might actually get worse.
This team is already screwed for years to come so it doesn't really matter.
Of course it matters. At least it means he won't be screwing it up even more.
Can't get the poop back in that baby...
I've ever heard it put in that way. Very eloquent. An android +1 for you.
think they have to be screwed for years to come. There are some peices there that could work if they were put together correctly. There are some things that simply have to be done:
1. Rodney Stuckey needs to not be on the team anymore. I don't know the current status of his contract, I think it is expiring. But it does not matter, and I don't care if you just have to buy him out and cut him. It has never worked with him here. He was a bad draft pick that has played like 10 years of poor basketball. When I think Rodney Stuckey I think Pistons losing.
2. Will Bynum needs to not be on the team anymore. It is cool once in a while to see a 6'0 dude throw down a big man, but come on, Will Bynum? What does he do? Why is he still playing? What kind of team is Will Bynum leading? Are you running offense through him? No. Is he a good distributor? No. Is he an effective shooter? No. You see what I am getting at.
3. They need to sort our their bigs. They have the potential to have a formidable front court, but there is no chemistry or cohesion because they have too much of a good thing. For better or worse, J. Smith is ours. He needs to play the four. Monroe's contract is expiring. I like him but he needs to go.
4. They need a knockdown shooter. I would search the landscape both in the draft and through free agency. They need somebody that can snipe with regularity. There is this one guy from Canada that I have heard is a pretty good shooter. May not be a bad idea depending on where they draft.
While I think he catches more flack than he deserves, it's a shame that he couldn't have resigned last year to make way for a replacement who would draft Trey.
Please rip your dick off so you don't procreate.
I think he's had it with the DUMARS SUX/KCP SUX/TREY GOAT circle jerk that has permeated literally (and I mean literally) every NBA thread on the board this season.
He may be tired of it and it may be a "circle-jerk" but what part of the first two aren't true and I dont think anybody has put Trey in the GOAT category. A lot of fans were rightly pissed off that Dumars constructed a team of misfit toys and let somebody from Michigan they could actually....i dunno...use go elsewhere. And from the looks of the attendance figures (the Pistons are dead freaking last in % of paid attendance to arena size) I'm guessing the circle-jerkers on this board arent alone.
28-49 will do that for you.
just for attendance purpose and to drive up ticket sales, you're going to get fired pretty soon. You take the player who will win you games for the next 5-10 years. Not saying KCP and Trey are the answer, but to declare that a player should be drafted to drive up revenues should be shot figuratively that is.
It's like people are saying Jacksonville Jaguars should draft Tim Tebow at 1st round to drive up attendance when in reality Tebow is a terrible QB. Just saying it as an example.
Based on what I've seen this year KCP isn't even going to be in the league in 5 years, let alone winnning anyone games for the next 5-10 years. Maybe Trey wouldn't have made them a better team this year, but I suspect he is going to contribue more positives in his overall career than KCP is. Maybe he should have taken someone else other than either KCP OR Trey. All I know is that he CLEARLY shouldn't have taken KCP.
on their 1st year. /hyperbole
There is a reason why you don't judge a player until it's their 3rd year in the league whether they can be a significant contributor.
To me, KCP will become a really solid player who can support a team as a key role player as a 3 & D type player.
Hey Allan Houston sucked his first year, so I guess it is possible. However, Allan Houston had quite a bit better numbers in college, and even his sucky numbers his first year were better than KCP's numbers. Anything is possible, but I wouldn't be betting any money that you need for anything important on KCP's success.
so he can ball.....
Trey Burke would not have a significant long term impact on attendance and TV ratings. Fact is, the Pistons would be a little worse with Burke instead of Jennings if you look at any advanced metrics. We'd still suck. Winning will put butts in the seats and eyes on the TV in the long term. Not a PG from a school that only half the state roots for.
Attendance is so bad at the Palace because the product sucks (and still would with Trey running the point) and because it's in the most god awful location. I refuse to go to the games because it's a big annoyance to get there and leave. If the Pistons were actually in Detroit, attendance might not be great but it wouldn't be as dismal as it is IMO.
Based on Trey Burke's play I doubt they would have driven up ticket sales, at least it wouldn't have worked out any better than signing Chauncey Billups drove up ticket sales (as in, an extremely small amount for a brief period of time).
Drafting people based on their ability to sell tickets is probably a bad idea in general.
Also, every single argument I've rehashed over and over and over in every single one of these threads. Stuff about how Burke and Brandon Knight would make for maybe the worst defensive back court in the league. As much of a chucker as Jennings has been, Trey has been worse. The Pistons goal was to make the playoffs this year, and so going with a veteran point guard over a rookie point guard was a safer move toward furthering that goal (even though the Pistons have sucked, Jennings has backed that up posting a WS of 4.2 vs. Burke's .8). The relative lack of depth at shooting guard versus the extreme depth at point guard, making it so even if KCP isn't as good of a player he could still have more value.
KCP and Burke have both been pretty sucky, if we're being frank.
The bottom line is that a lot of people are just fed up with people being dicks about it. Burke's play has in no way shape or form justified the level of outrage, and KCP doesn't deserve any of the vitriol directed his way by people from this board. He didn't draft himself.
It also speaks volumes how when Burke has had good games this year (which has been pretty infrequient) the chirpers come flocking out of the woodwork, but when he's gone vast stretches of time with poor play it's crickets. All you need to do is compare the two Jazz-Pistons game threads for proof of that (the game where Burke played well was "LOLOLOL BURKE! FUCK DUMARS! FUCK KCP!" while the game where Burke played poorly was silence).
It's just so incredibly tired and played out as a meme. Dumars is going to be gone. It's time to move on.
FWIW I agree with virtually all the points you just made. My contention on drafting Trey v KCP as it relates to attendance is simply that if all things are equal it certainly wouldnt hurt attendance to have the local boy in town. I used to be a Cavs season ticket holder and I can tell you the jump from pre-Lebron to post-Lebron was unbelievable (and just to be clear I'm not putting Trey and LeBron in the same category of player) and the Cavs didnt make the playoffs for the first two years he was in Cleveland. But it was sellout city baby as Northern Ohio came out to cheer on it's own.
Would Trey have filled the seats? Probably not. Would he have helped attendance and interest? I think he would have.
Just my opnion.
Trey Burke is not a 'local boy'. He played two years at of U of M and he has a fucking Columbus tattoo on his forearm. This narrative needs to stop. It's not like he was Steve Alford, who grew up in Indiana and played for the premeire blue-blood program in the state.
believe Ohio State did not recruit him.
They were set with the premiere point guard in Big Ten, nay college basketball, history.
I don't think your opinion is based on much. It's not like we had people banging on the doors of Crisler days before games to get tickets to watch Trey play at Michigan. Why would a significant amount of Michigan fans be going to the middle of nowhere to watch a rookie play inconsistently on a crappy team? Any miniscule bump that the Pistons would have initially received would have disappeared when their record kept creeping farther away from .500.
If they had drafted Burke they wouldn't have had to sign Jennings. No matter how many novels you write in the comments, Dumars simply made a bad mistake not drafting Trey. The fact that their goal to make the playoffs has been missed badly just adds to the insanity of it all. Burke has a ceiling he hasn't come close to hitting, Jennings is who he is. Get over people calling a spade a spade.
If Dumars drafts Burke he never gets to see his ceiling, they still don't make the playoffs, and he still gets fired. It doesn't work out any differently for Joe.
If they draft Burke, Knight becomes harder to move.
Thing is, do you really think Burke changes that number too much outside of the first month or so? I know people around here love Burke, but he's an average-ish rookie with a decent-if-unspectacular upside. Fans wouldn't be out in droves to watch him throw up a 12-5-3 with mediocre shooting numbers, and LOTS of Pistons fans are MSU fans, so who knows if they would want to cheer a guy who pwned their team for years.
cuz he didn't decide to crudely comment until Trey's name showed up in the thread---not to any of the earlier negative comments about Dumars--and KCP was never mentioned.
I think my opinion has always been a lot more nuanced than that. Basically, KCP can be a worse player but due to the relative strengths of their positions have more value than Burke. Also, earlier in the season KCP was playing better than Burke and the advanced stats bore it out. Then KCP's minutes started getting yoyoed and his play became equially as sporadic.
Also, despite all of that, KCP still has a higher WS/48 than Burke (.55 to .18) and more WS on the season (1.7 to .8), and that's with Burke playing 600 more minutes (WS are compiled over time).
Please stop throwing around Win Shares like it's some magical stat from heaven. It's not.
Offensive win shares is pretty good, but defensive win shares is crap. Judging a player's defensive value by how many points they allow is highly dependent on the players around them, which for Burke, are crap. Give Burke KCP's teammates (ex. Andre Drummond) and his defensive win share rating would skyrocket. A stat heavily based on your teammates is pretty much crap. It's like the Pitcher Win in baseball. +/- in hockey. Your teammates can ruin in/ save it for you. Both crappy stats, as is defensive win shares.
If you think KCP's defense makes him a better play than Burke, great. But don't throw Win Shares around like that "proves it" or anything.
Win Shares are not entirely without value, and considering most scouts agree KCP is a relatively good defender, while Burke is a very poor defender, they may not be without merit in this instance.
Give KCP Burke's minutes, FGA per game, stick him onto a team where he is the number 1 or 2 option offensively, and his raw offensive numbers would greatly improve. It's all relative.
Also, seeing as you've brought up OWS being a good stat, KCP's OWS is higher than Burkes (.9 to .7) despite Burke having played 600 more minutes.
Dude you did it again. Used 1 stat. Win shares. That's all you have. And win shares isn't that good.
What about PER? Burke wins. 3 point percentage? Burke wins. I could go on and on.
But there's no point in arguing with you. All you do is shit on Burke and defend the Pistons. That's your thing on mgoblog. I get it.
You seem a little too emotionally invested in this argument.