MaizeAndBlueWahoo

December 30th, 2013 at 1:52 PM ^

Pryor was a third-round pick, just like Foles and Wilson.  In the supplemental draft, but it came down to using a third-round pick all the same.  Plus you're rewriting history.  Freeman was considered a great pick.  So was, for that matter, Blaine Gabbert, another first-round bust.

But what does it really matter?  You lumped all young quarterbacks into one category.  You told me that a young quarterback was the recipe for success by providing anecdotal evidence of some that succeeded, regardless of draft position.  I gave you twice as many young quarterbacks that busted out.  I'll promise you right now that everyone reading this debate is going "you can't be serious" at your arguments, not mine.

Joined: 07/02/2008

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ghost

December 30th, 2013 at 2:34 PM ^

Freeman was never considered a great pick.  You are rewriting history by saying that.  He underachieved at K-State and the Bucs reached when they picked him.

I didn't say receipe to success.  I said you can win with young QBs.  Did you miss the 49ers in the Super Bowl or the fact that the top 3 seeds in the NFC are all young QBs.

Stating Matt McGloin and Weeden as examples of young QBs that didn't work out is a joke.  

Also no one considered Gabbert a good pick either.  Don't know where you could possibly get that from.  

Do you honestly believe the Lions are closer to a Super Bowl than the Texans?  I don't see how some one can rationally argue that they are.

Joined: 09/02/2011

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MaizeAndBlueWahoo

December 30th, 2013 at 3:11 PM ^

Hmm, let's see where I might get that Gabbert info:

"The Jaguars hit the lottery when Blaine Gabbert slipped slightly and they were able to trade up to the No. 10 spot to get him."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=6464611

Gabbert was the top-rated QB that year.

The real joke is claiming that your examples make your case and then dismissing examples that don't fit your silly narrative.  The other real joke is saying an unproven rookie has a better chance of becoming a franchise quarterback than does an actual franchise quarterback.

Did you miss that many of the playoff teams have "old" quarterbacks?  Hmm, Rodgers, Brees, Manning, Brady, Rivers, and Alex Smith, the guy who wasn't good enough in SF.  Looks like you can win with young QBs.  Looks like you can win with old QBs.  You can lose with young QBs.  (Pretending that examples of this don't exist is disingenuous.)  You can even lose with old QBs. 

The correlation you're trying to make is worthless and the overall point you're trying to make - that Houston is better off with a rookie than the Lions are with Stafford - is bullshit.  Yes, I'm going to make the totally crazy point that a 7-9 team is closer to the Super Bowl than a 2-14 team.  What a wild and wacky idea.

Joined: 07/02/2008

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SalvatoreQuattro

December 30th, 2013 at 12:41 PM ^

are game managers. They are not elite QBs as of yet.

I cannot agree with your assertion about Bridgewater. The guy played against crappy teams in college and you want to anoint him better than Stafford who played in the SEC. I want to see Bridgewater play against some decent competition before I make any comparison to Stafford or any other QB.

Joined: 11/30/2010

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thisisme08

December 30th, 2013 at 1:03 PM ^

I understand the point your trying to make but that is just asine statement.  To be drafted high in the NFL you have at least had to be somewhat productive in college.  Now, in the NBA sure, those idiots just look at a 7'3 guy and say he's the #1 pick despite the fact his knees are made out of sugar cubes.

That said, I'm still not sold on Bridgewater as a #1 pick purely based on the level of competition he's faced throughout his career.  Top #10 player, sure, just maybe not #1 overall.       

Joined: 12/02/2008

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Trebor

December 30th, 2013 at 12:58 PM ^

He may not be a complete unknown, but he also didn't play against much top competition. He's the best bet amongst QBs in this year's draft, but that doesn't mean he's any sort of guarantee.

Also, the bust rate hasn't exactly been stellar lately. The list of 1st round QBs recently:

2010 - Sam Bradford and Tim Tebow. Tebow is a joke and everyone knew it was a terrible pick. Bradford has been ok when healthy.

2011 - Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder. Newton is a very good QB, but the other three are anything but.

2012 - Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin III, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden. Tough call since they only just completed their second seasons, but Luck is 18th in passer rating, RGIII is 22nd, Tannehill is 24th, Weeden is 34th. Weeden looks bad, RGIII can't stay healthy, and Tannehill looks mediocre. Only Luck looks like a long-term starter in the NFL at this point.

2013 - EJ Manuel. Probably too young to tell at this point, but finished 29th in the NFL in passer rating on a pretty bad team.

Joined: 06/30/2008

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ghost

December 30th, 2013 at 1:24 PM ^

Tannehill does not look mediocore.  I am assuming you must not have seen him play.  The fact that he won 8 games behind that disasterous offensive line and with no running game. The o-line and running game weren't as bad as Michigan's were this year, but they were close.  Tannehill is the long term solution in Miami. You really can't blame RGIII for Shanahan's disaster.  Weeden, well everyone except Cleveland knew that was a bad idea.

Joined: 09/02/2011

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Trebor

December 30th, 2013 at 1:45 PM ^

I'm not blaming RGIII for whatever Shanahan did, but he's now had two significant knee injuries (once at Baylor, once in the NFL). If you take away his ability to run the ball via injuries, he'll be out of the league very quickly because he's not good enough through the air alone.

From what I saw of Tannehill, I think mediocre is pretty accurate. Granted, he's young and fairly raw as a QB, so he could very well turn into something approaching good. But at this point, I haven't seen enough out of him to think he's a future long-term starter in Miami.

Joined: 06/30/2008

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MJ14

December 30th, 2013 at 12:38 PM ^

Yeah that solid line is also very young and I'm sure they'll go after the eventual center replacement in the draft this year. The secondary is really only missing one player, if they could stay healthy. I didn't get a chance to really pay attention to Slay this year, but did anyone see how he did?

The Lions need a C, WR, and Secondary players in the draft and they're fine. Which is not normally the case. Usually there's like 5 positions of need. The center wouldn't even be a starter right now, so a good WR and DB. The rest your building depth with, which is a strange thing to say about the Lions. 

I wouldn't mind if the Lions traded up a few spots to get Watkins. Get a DB in the second round, and go from there. That's just one guys thoughts though. I'm no expert. 

Joined: 01/09/2011

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MJ14

December 30th, 2013 at 1:57 PM ^

I kind of assumed when they picked him that he would never really be a starter. Like you said though, it's early so he could become starter material. Hopefully they can find a starting DB this year though from the draft or free agency. 

Joined: 01/09/2011

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MaizeAndBlueWahoo

December 30th, 2013 at 2:22 PM ^

I thought Slay was pretty good this year.  I agree we need more CB action in the draft, but I think on balance Slay had more good games than bad.

For the record I'd be happy with either Dennard from Sparty or perhaps Sammy Watkins or Marqise Lee in the draft.  It's going to feel weird for a long time to say "the Lions should draft a WR" but they could use one....we've seen what the offense looks like without Calvin.

Joined: 07/02/2008

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MJ14

December 30th, 2013 at 12:28 PM ^

The Texans don't have a QB. The best receiver they have isn't as good as Calvin, which duh obvious. But Andre is already 32 and he's not getting any younger. Foster seems to get hurt quite a bit. The defense isn't elite.

On the other hand, the Lions have a very young lines on both sides. One side is probably one of the best lines in the country. The other side was very good this year and they'll soon replace the center. The Lions still have a young QB, who can be very good. They have the best receiver in the game and a tight end who came on strong at the end of the year. They have a fantastic running back duo in Bell and Bush. The defense had a linebacker who lead the league in interceptions. 

Out of all the job openings, it's pretty easy to see the Lions job is the best. They're the only team that has the talent right now to get to the playoffs, out of the teams needing a coach. You add in a couple good draft picks and maybe a free agent or two, and they're looking very good. Just need better coaching.

Joined: 01/09/2011

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MJ14

December 30th, 2013 at 2:01 PM ^

If they bring in a top quality coach, it isn't about rebuilding or anything like that anymore. The problem for a long time was the Lions didn't have the players or the coaching. Thus every coach they brought in had to rebuild. Now the Lions have some depth, the best WR in the game, two great lines, and some very good players. They are built to win now, as others have suggested. With Xander there, they should have another good draft and free agency period. If they can just get 2 or 3 players there are even decent starters, they are a playoff team. 

So yes, they have had years of bad teams. Years of losing and never amounting to much. But, they have a ton going for them right now and a great coach wouldn't screw that up. It's not the same old Lions that need rebuilt or need a ton of pieces. They're a good coach away from making the playoffs. 2 or 3 good players and a good coach from winning in the playoffs. 

The Texans need a lot more help as do the Bucs. No coach can go in and win right now without a lot of moves being made. Both of those teams need a QB, among a lot of other things. 

Joined: 01/09/2011

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umumum

December 31st, 2013 at 1:01 PM ^

Not so sure about your QB analysis.  Glennon looks like he may well be a steal for the Bucs.  As for Stafford..... well the jury has to still be out on him.  I appreciate that the hope (and his upside) is Favre, but  a comparison to Cutler is starting to look equally (or more) realistic.  His bad plays are killer bad plays--and he's had enough reps at this point, that it may simply be who he is--I suspect coaches have told him on more than one occasion to stop with the sidearm throws under pressure.

Joined: 01/06/2011

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LSAClassOf2000

December 30th, 2013 at 12:27 PM ^

Seeing this, I had a feeling it was entirely probable that Mayhew would not be going anywhere, but is there anyone else that see Mayhew's seat as GM at least a little warm? Perhaps a lot can be addressed with just a coaching change, but it seems to me that the next hire and what that person brings could put Mayhew on watch as well. I credit Martin Mayhew with getting Detroit the talent to compete regularly on Sunday, but I think the coaching search / hire is vital to his future. I am not saying that he should or should not go, just that there could be telling moments ahead in the front office.  

Joined: 01/07/2011

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BlueCube

December 30th, 2013 at 12:45 PM ^

I can't say how much Xander had an effect on the last draft, but my guess it was substantial. They did much better not only with draft picks but free agents also. Mayhew wasted too many draft picks in the past on reaches that other teams were avoiding because of health concerns.

If Mayhew is on a "we will see how he does this year" basis as it sounds, it could impact who is willing to come to coach since a new GM will want his own coach. I'm also concerned Xander will get hired away by another team as the GM. Mayhew wasted too many draft picks in the past on reaches that other teams were avoiding because of health concerns.

My hope was that Mayhew would be gone, Xander hired as GM and would then hire the coach.

Joined: 12/12/2013

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Prince Lover

December 30th, 2013 at 12:20 PM ^

Lions have a top notch dline, solid linebackers, they're very solid against the run, they have the best player in the league in Calvin, they have a young qb to work with who can make all the throws needed, they have a decent tandem rbs. All they need is to shore up the secondary and find 1 or 2 more wrs. The cabinet is not bare.

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