OT: Jalen was advocating for the Fab 5 reunion last night at Mock Rock
Jalen MC'd the Michigan Mock Rock last night at Hill. He made a few comments regarding the Fab 5 returning to Michigan. He said that all of the Fab 5 love Michigan and love the Michigan fans. He said that this team could be good enough to cut down nets and if they do he wants to watch from the seats with the other 4 of the Fab 5.
He was a pretty good MC. He brought out Jimmy King at one point and Hardaway and GRIII for a few seconds. Hoke was there and Jalen thanked him for bringing Michigan football back.
I realize that the Fab 5 are a touchy subject for some Michigan fans but I'm 44 and remember bumping into the Fab 5 at the Spaghetti Bender back in the day! You are old school if you remember the Bender. I'm a fan of all the Fab 5. Even CWebb. I don't get a vote but I say bring em all back. It was over 20 years ago.
February 5th, 2013 at 12:48 PM ^
If they want to do it, fine, but wait until after the tournament. If M wins the title, then I'm all for a reunion. I don't want the focus to be on the Fab Five when it should be on the current team.
February 5th, 2013 at 12:49 PM ^
C Webb should have to give a mea culpa and an apology to the school and the fans before Michigan even thinks of letting him come back. If he does admit responsibility and apologize, it will prove that Webber has developed the integrity to be worthy of the maize and blue again.
It has been twenty years, which means that Webber could admit to anything short of murder and the statute of limitations would apply. All he has to do is admit that what he did is wrong and apologize for it. Otherwise, why should a school like Michigan celebrate Chris Webber? He cost the team five years of victories by making it cool to take Ed Martin's money, and another ten years to dig out of the hole.
And still, after all that, almost everyone at Michigan would welcome him back if he simply apologized for what he did. Webber's ego is the only thing that is keeping him from being welcomed back.
Sometimes, you have to give a little to get a little.
February 5th, 2013 at 1:28 PM ^
He didn't kill anyone (TP was wrong about that). He wasn't, AFAIK, an "evil" guy.
BUT...
Breaking commitments. Lying. Hiding the truth. All of that has to account for something.
You might say, him taking $600,000 after promising not to money (all student-athletes have to do that) was defensible. School was making millions on the Five Timez; he wasn't making a penny. (Ignoring his education, and ignoring the publicity and opportunities he received that led to him being drafted #1 and getting $$$ in advertising, NBA salary, etc.) You can say he came from poverty (he didn't -- that was Jalen). You can say, the rules shouldn't have been the rules, they are bad rules. You can make any excuse you want, but it's just an excuse.
There were rules at the time, its the system he signed up to, and he violently breached them. And it started a cavalcade of problems that screwed the university for years and years, while he was banging Tyra and making a gazillion bucks. And never admitted it.
If he really doesn't have anything to apologize for, how come he hasn't openly admitted it? Doesn't his years of silence show, he knows he did wrong but won't admit it?
So -- seriously, dude -- I don't get why he has nothing to apologize for? I respectfully disagree with your post. Violently disagree.
February 5th, 2013 at 2:33 PM ^
not sure why.
my opinion is the same, you are entitled to your violence.
February 5th, 2013 at 2:16 PM ^
Come on...Really:
He cost the team five years of victories by making it cool to take Ed Martin's money, and another ten years to dig out of the hole.
Who hired Brian Ellerbe? Who neglected the facilities? Did Chris do that? Other schools bounce back quickly from violations when the university makes good decisions. Chris made bad decisions and so did Michigan. This continual harping on Chris for years of shittiness after he left (his sophomore year) is tired and annoying. We get it; folks hate him. Of course, that's how they talk before asking for his autograph as well.
He was the heart of one of the two most entertaining teams in the history of the college game (UNLV being the other), and I loved being a part of that era. Save the hating for Brian Ellerbe and Tommy Amaker's mock turtlenecks.
February 5th, 2013 at 4:09 PM ^
As much as I personally dislike you, I make it a point to note when people I dislike are right.
When you're right, you're right, and in this case, you are absolutely spot on.
February 5th, 2013 at 4:50 PM ^
I agree with your overall point and the parts about Amaker and facilities. Also the UNLV team, great fun to watch them too.
But as far as "Who hired Brian Ellerbe?", that disaster pretty much can be traced back to Fisher/Webber/T(r)aylor/Bullock et al. It's not like Goss/Bollinger just picked Ellerbe from among a pool of great candidates. It was October and everyone else in basketball had a job when the law firm report came down and made it necessary to immediately fire Fisher. There was no choice to hire anyone better or to promote Dutcher who was too close to Fisher to be viable. Effectively, the Martin scandal forced them to hire him on an interim basis.
You can perhaps make an argument that they shouldn't have given Ellerbe more than one year. Obviously in hindsight it seems like a terrible blunder. But at the time people thought that he had done a solid job guiding that 97-98 team to a 25-9 record and #3 seed and we all thought that the NCAA was going to drop the hammer big time and that no one else would want the job until that was resolved and suffered through. That latter part probably was true. So I think you pretty much can lay Ellerbe at the feet of Webber and company as their violations set in motion the circumstances that led to that period.
Now Amaker is a different story and that falls on Bill Martin big time for flubbing the Pitino hire.
February 5th, 2013 at 2:46 PM ^
Hey Chris, Tater from mgoblog says you owe the university an apology. What do you have to say?
February 5th, 2013 at 4:54 PM ^
But if we don't get an apology, how will we feel morally superior?
February 5th, 2013 at 12:52 PM ^
Fab 5 and company beat this year's squad 9 times outta 10 games.
Bring the Fab 5 back.
February 5th, 2013 at 12:53 PM ^
I think the Fab 5 is second only to RichRod when it comes to both inflaming emotions as well as dividing opinion on the board.
But for what it's worth I'm with you. I would love to see the Fab 5 reunite and if you could make that happen say.....for the Illinois game (which i just happen to have tickets for) it would be just fine with me.
February 5th, 2013 at 2:18 PM ^
That's an interesting point you raise. What's a bit weird to me though, is that RichRod really didn't bring anything positive to the football program (record losses, laughing stock, sanctions) whereas Webb and the Fab5 brought tons (shocked the world, (vacated) wins, also sanctions).
The folks here who primarily attack Webb tend to be strong supporters of Rich. Seems like if they can overlook the shortcoming of an adult (without the passage of time), they should at least be as forgiving of the actions of a kid, 20 years later.
February 5th, 2013 at 2:27 PM ^
The harm that Webber did to the school was far greater than any harm Coach Rod did. Coach Rod caused major sanctions in name only. Webber caused legitimately major sanctions, a genuine black mark on the athletic program. Further, Webber the adult won't own up to it and instead - last I knew - seemed to consider himself a victim of the university somehow.
February 5th, 2013 at 2:40 PM ^
Some might say that the harm Rich did to the school (tearing down the football program to rebuild it in his flawed image) would have done tremendous harm to the program but for the hire of Hoke. Can you imagine if we hired the Ellerbe equivalent (not sure who that would be...maybe Henry Winkler from The Waterboy)???
In any event, I think your impression of Webber as a person (especially judging from your comments below) are really off the mark. I've known the guy for a while now (and while we never talked about basketball) and he's much different than the character his detractors imagine.
February 5th, 2013 at 2:57 PM ^
The former isn't desirable, of course, but the latter is much worse. Think about the average Michigan fan's impression of Jim Tressel.
What about my impression of him is wrong? Is he willing to apologize for any harm he did to Michigan (however much he may disagree with the way the NCAA is run)?
FWIW: I wish Webber well as a person. I think he was one of the most promising people to come through Michigan sports that I've ever seen, and I'd love to see him live up to that. I hate the way things have ended up, but I don't think we can pretend that everything between Michigan and Webber is ironed out either.
February 5th, 2013 at 3:01 PM ^
Ok...I don't look at either as having "cheated". Their violations had no effect on their performance on the field of play. I look upon the Fab5 era fondly (as do many). I don't know many folks who do the same for the RR era.
What about your impression is wrong? Well, you seem to feel (based on your imaginary quotes) that he's a pompous, entitled dick. That's just not the case.
February 5th, 2013 at 3:10 PM ^
Athletes taking improper benefits is cheating - whether it should or shouldn't be. Whether people remember an era fondly has nothing to do with that. I'm sure a lot of people at SMU long for the good ol' days, but is that really what we want for Michigan?
I based my quote (which was obviously not something he really said) on his behavior regarding the Martin scandal. I wasn't commenting on what he's like if you run into him at a restaurant.
February 5th, 2013 at 3:19 PM ^
But a lot of people think you come off like a pompous, entitled, dick, then you might be doing something wrong.
February 5th, 2013 at 3:53 PM ^
Chris Webber was an active participant in the worst scandal in the history of Michigan athletics. He lied to the University, and he lied to the press (at least he lied to Mitch Albom, the biographer of the Fab Five). Webber lied to a federal grand jury, and was indicted for it. He is really, really lucky he didn't go to a federal prison. Ed Martin, Webber's friend and benefactor pled guilty to a federal felony after having been indicted on a half-dozen charges. Martin died, awaiting federal sentencing, as the charges against Webber were pending. His death eliminated the prime prosecution witness against Webber.
The Webber wrongs are almost astonishing in their scope. While publicly complaining about his exploitation as a basketball player, he was illegally taking hundreds of thousands of dollars. All because he was a basketball player. A basketball player who used Michigan as a springboard to a career in the NBA, where he made millions.
Mentioning, in that context, the name of Rich Rodriguez, a current NCAA head football coach in good standing, is an outrageous insult.
Let's review.
In case No. M-324, the University of Michigan football program was alleged to have committed four "major" violations. The "major" quality of most of those violations barely sustains the laugh test, given the hypertechnical nature of most of them. (Stretching as countable time, the job descriptions and voluntary practice observations by hourly-paid GA's, the sporadic and occasional workout "punishments" for missed academic classes when out of season.) One count was admittedly serious; a GA lied to NCAA and Michigan investigators, and was summarily fired. He cooperated with the investigation, however, and by all accounts had nothing to say that implicated Head Coach Rodriguez.
The last count in the NCAA Notice of Allegations implicated Rodriguez directly, for a Failure to Monitor. Rodriguez disputed the charge. The University disputed the charge. There was a hearing. The NCAA caved, and agreed to drop the charge of a Failure to Monitor versus Rodriguez.
The current athletic director at the University of Arizona read the most authoritative press report of the affair, John U. Bacon's Three and Out, and soon thereafter offered Rodriguez the head coaching position in Tucson. Other than a letter of reprimand in his Michigan personnel file -- a reprimand that several other Michigan Athletic Department officials recieved -- Rodriguez was neither charged with, nor punished for, any other wrongdoing.
Now don't blame me for another Rodriguez discussion. I didn't start this one. But I'll be happy to end it.
There is a very good reason for people like me to condemn Chris Webber, and at the same time defend Rich Rodriguez. Because the allegations -- the federal indictment -- against Webber were serious. Even breathtaking.
The allegations against Rodriguez were trumped up to begin with, they were reduced to trivia after the initial investigation, and they were ultimately debunked after a hearing.
There is no comparison. NONE.
February 6th, 2013 at 1:45 AM ^
While the local press stuck to their agenda of running him out of town, the enormous amount of good things Rodriguez did for the program and for the community went under the radar. The positive things he did for Mott, BB/BS, and for the Mealers, to name a few. Rodriguez was a stand up guy, and its unfortuante that he didnt get the treatment he deserved. If anything, the handling of that era made the university look bad, not Rodriguez.
February 5th, 2013 at 4:11 PM ^
Aaaaand, I'm reminded why I dislike you.
But at least I can keep the two separate.
February 5th, 2013 at 3:03 PM ^
But the last sentence...didn't we just have a 300 post thread discussing Rich not owning up to his mistakes and blaming others?
February 5th, 2013 at 3:10 PM ^
He's always taken responsibility for the sanctions, though, hasn't he?
February 5th, 2013 at 3:24 PM ^
Then I agree. I mean, he did defend himself separately from the rest of the U, so maybe he thought he was less to blame than some, but since there wasn't really much of anything there to blame, it didn't matter.
But I don't think he was talking about sanctions as Rich's biggest method of "destroying the program" as much as the loss of winning streaks, bowl games, etc. Which one doesn't have to blame him for either if they don't want to. But we just had 300 posts on him blaming old players at Michigan being entitled, so taking blame for that part seems like it would be up for debate.
February 5th, 2013 at 3:27 PM ^
I hear you re: the other stuff.
February 5th, 2013 at 3:03 PM ^
I was a RR supporter (and still like him, though I'm happy that era has passed at UM if for no other reason than the divide it caused) and have always loved CW. I know you said "tend to be" so you didn't mean everyone, but I wanted to it to be known that at least one RR supporter supports CW as well. Maybe I am just too damn understanding.
February 5th, 2013 at 12:56 PM ^
and it being two years in the past would have been sufficient time to let things digest and possibly welcome him back when the ban ends this year, but he wouldn't take that step.
I tend to believe that with Mary Sue still running the show the University will not celebrate all of the Fab 5, nor will those banners go back up.
February 5th, 2013 at 1:03 PM ^
"You're all a bunch of ingrates. You're lucky that I went to U of M, b/c your athletic program was nothing before I got here. You exploited me, and I did nothing wrong...Have fun watching the game!" ?
February 5th, 2013 at 1:29 PM ^
No one thinks he would say that. IIRC... two years before he arrived, didnt we WIN THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP????
February 5th, 2013 at 1:39 PM ^
I think you may have MISSED MY POINT.
February 5th, 2013 at 2:11 PM ^
Holy hater, Batman!
No, that's not what he'd say. He'd probably say something like, "Hey Erik. Nice to meet you. What's up?" Because in real life, he's a pretty nice guy.
February 5th, 2013 at 2:22 PM ^
Your darn right he is. Two years ago when Oho State was playing in the eastern regional finals a co-worker of mine went to the game. Dressed in all his Buckeye Basketball gear my buddy ran into Chris at a bar in Manhatten and started talking to him. He said he was VERY cool, funny and let him take pictures of them together and when my friend told Chris he worked with a guy who went to Michigan C-Webb asked him my name and autographed their cloth napkin "To Don, my Michigan Brother. Go Blue! - Chris".
I still have the napkin. And I used to have the picture of him signing it so I know it wasnt forged!
February 5th, 2013 at 2:46 PM ^
I ran into him in the lobby of the MGM this summer in Vegas. He was incredibly nice and even though he seemed to be in a hurry when I spotted him, he stopped and talked to me for a couple minutes before hurrying on.
February 5th, 2013 at 1:07 PM ^
old school. Banners are not going back up. But I am eager to see the entire Fab V work things through with the U. I still think that the best move would be a two or three-day conference about the team, the phenomenon that was the Fab V, and their effect on hoop where different people--including scholars--weighed in, perhaps Jalen or somebody gave a keynote, and some note of reconciliation was effected. Perhaps some key intervention would be made by C Webb.
February 5th, 2013 at 1:24 PM ^
What incentive does Webber and the rest of the Fab Five have for making some form peace with the University if there is no discussion of their banners ever going back up? For all the talk of the Fab Five being overrated and having never actually won anything, those banners are the one tangible thing they accomplished in their time at Michigan. They're going to make some kind of peace offerring to Michigan and get nothing in return? I don't see that happening.
February 5th, 2013 at 2:03 PM ^
that is no longer true. The wins were vacated. Many people have pointed this out. Putting them up would just be a lie. I say this as a guy who came of age worshipping the Fab V and who does not get the rancor toward C Webb to this day.
Their incentive is getting into the U's good graces and reunited with past and present players, fans, etc. There is, in other words, plenty.
February 5th, 2013 at 1:07 PM ^
February 5th, 2013 at 1:19 PM ^
So what, he took money, he didn't hurt anyone doing that, he just hurt people with the lies.Actually, it's the exact opposite. Webber hurt a lot of people by taking money. He hurt the University, the fans, his teammates, his coaches....a lot of folks who care about Michigan basketball suffered because of his actions in the Ed Martin scandal. He really only hurt himself by lying about it, because that is how he got in trouble with the Grand Jury investigation into Ed Martin's business dealings. Michigan didn't get into trouble because Webber got indicted for perjury. Michigan got into trouble because of the details that came out during the FBI's investigation of Ed Martin.
February 5th, 2013 at 1:09 PM ^
I don't understand why they need to be "brought back". If Jalen wants to go watch Michigan win the NC with the other members of the Fab 5, I'm pretty sure he can pull some strings or just pony up for the tickets.
February 5th, 2013 at 1:13 PM ^
February 5th, 2013 at 1:31 PM ^
1000s Internetz (invented by Al Gore) to you, good Sir.
BINGO.
February 5th, 2013 at 1:33 PM ^
Well, for one thing, time. If the Fab 5 (really, we're talking about Webber) came back this year, it would be 20 years after their successes and sins, and 10 years after the conclusion of the NCAA investigation and penalties. It's far enough away that people do not remember all the pain that was a result of their actions. The distance allows for some forgiveness.
OTOH, Tressel was brought back 18 months after he was fired, during the season that included a bowl ban for which he was clearly responsible. The message OSU sent was that Tressel is forgiven for cheating, even celebrated. So soon after it all went down, looks bad to us (as rival fans).
February 5th, 2013 at 1:39 PM ^
So what you're saying is that you're a moral relativist and not to be trusted?
February 5th, 2013 at 2:23 PM ^
1. 20 years later not one year later and during sanctions for whe he did
2. They are not going to be caried around and celebrated as heros. They just want to be welcome at the game. Webber still can't have any official association with the university until next year. They just want to sit courtside together to watch the best team their alma mater has produced since they wore the jerseys themselves.
No one would have chastised tsio for allowing Tressel to quitely sit in the first row of the stands at a football game.
February 5th, 2013 at 7:16 PM ^
I hope they do show up. Hell, I really hope we're in the finals so they can watch us from their courtside seats. As long as they're not asking for UM to give Webber a ticket I don't see the problem.
February 5th, 2013 at 1:13 PM ^
I am happy with our current team and bringing back the Fab 5 would simply distract from the accomplishments of the guys who are here now doing it the right way. Let them buy tickets and sit amongst the rest of us if the want to watch a game- But I want the spotlight to be on the guys we have here now.
February 5th, 2013 at 1:13 PM ^
Sadly, I think it will require Mary Sue retiring before the topic of a Fab Five reunion is going to be breached. That said, she's turning 70 this year, so retirement is probably not that far off for her.
Even then, there would probably have to be some degree of quid pro quo between the University administration and the Fab Five. I can't see the University making a condition that Webber make some form of apology that doesn't provide for their Final Four banners going back up into the rafters. I also have a hard time imagining Webber ever being willing to make some form of public offering as I still get the impression that he feels like the exploited party in the whole affair.
February 5th, 2013 at 1:17 PM ^
Yeah I'll pass. We had a darn good basketball program before the fab five and their actions basically destroyed it for a decade.
February 5th, 2013 at 2:22 PM ^
Wrong.
Webber, Traylor (RIP), Taylor and Bullock are the ones who brought the sanctions.
Jalen, Jimmy, Ray & Juwan's records still stand.
Plus it wasn't JUST the sanctions. It was the bonehead move of firing Fisher and hiring Ellerbe by arguably the worst AD here of all time in Tom Goss.