OT: Ivan "Pudge" Rodriguez retiring....HOFer?

I hope he gets in.  I certainly appreciate the time he put in with my Nationals.

no question IMO

How to put this lightly....he better be. Growing up as a catcher, before my knees started bothering me as a 14 year old, I idolized Pudge and still do to this day, despite the Mauer-like move to 1B lol. I love Pudge and hope he gets into the Hall ASAP. I loved when he stopped by Detroit for a stint.

He was definitely one of my favorite players when he was a tiger.  Loved watching him throw from behind the plate.  Seemed to have the best arm of any catcher I watched.  No slouch at the plate either.  I would love to see him in the hall of fame.

I think he'll have an easier time than most from that era.  He only had one year with over 30 HR and 100 RBI.  His reputation was based more on being a great defensive player with solid offensive numbers rather than pinball machine stats. 

Doesn't mean he wasn't juicing, but the writers will probably be more lenient for a guy who wasn't just a slugger and can be included for other reasons.  On the flip side, a guy like Bagwell probably suffers less from suspicion than from the fact that his numbers aren't as impressive as the guys from his era who probably were juiced to the rafters.

which ain't bad at all. I personally think he should be a first ballot HOF but I also feel that way about Bagwell (one of the most underrated greats of the past 20 years IMO) and many lame brain sports writers have not been voting for Bags because "he may have used PED and I would not feel comfortable voting for someone who may have given himself unfair advantage". Notice, the operative words are "may have". IMO, lame brain writers like that should have their voting rights revoked. I feel that the same fate may befall Pudge.

That is all.

I don't give a fuck what Canseco said about steroids and Pudge.  I don't even give a fuck if it's true.  Dude took a chance on the Tigers after they had hit rock bottom and broke out the jackhammers, and was one of the primary catalysts for their turnaround.  For that I'm eternally grateful, and yes, first-ballot HOFer.

Possibly not a first ballot HOFer, but I see no way they can keep him Cooperstown.  He was one hell of a defensive catcher and it didn't hurt that he knew how to swing a bat when needed.

Great, great ballplayer, but helping revive the Tigers isn't a HOF qualification.  He was accused by Jose, he shrunk 25 lbs in the several months after it became far more difficult/risky to juice, and he was walking around on that Ranger locker room floor that must by now be completely saturated with clear, cream, and anything else those vampires at BALCO were mixing up in those days.  If you ask me there is more than a little evidence against the guy.

First ballot.  Difference between him and Bagwell, there was a bunch of 1B/DH types of his era with similar profiles: Thome, Thomas, McGwire even Edgar Martinez and Palmiero.  For catchers it was Pudge and Piazza.  Bagwell will and should get in, but it might take hime awhile.  He doesn't have the flash, milestones or siginifcant post-seasons to set him apart.

Baseball either needs to ignore steroids as a criteria for the HOF or not elect anyone from the era.  The entire basis of not electing based on whisper campaigns is ridiculous as is eliminating the few HOF-level players who were caught and/or admitted usage.  We'll never know a full list of steroid users during the era, so we need to treat everyone the same.   Either throw out the arbitrary statistical "benchmarks" and decide who was HOF worthy on performance as compared to others in the era, ignoring any and all steroid accusations, or keep them all out.  Either scenario sucks for those that didn't use PEDs during the steroid era, but I don't care.  Any of them could have stepped up and helped end what was a known problem in the clubhouse.  Note:  If they "banned" the entire era, I'd make an exception for Frank Thomas.  That was one guy who did what he could to rid the game of steroids.  

I do think he is a 1st year on the ballat HOF.

I don't want to hijack the discussion of Pudge Rodriguez; but as long as we are talking about catchers on the cusp of Cooperstown, how about the University of Michigan's own two-sport star, Bill Feeehan?  Compare his record with Pudge.

Freehan was named to 11 consecutive All-Star teams and won five Gold Glove Awards.  An iron man in the toughest position on the diamond, he played in more than 140 games in five seasons.

In 1968 (a World Championship season, in which the deciding play was likely his own), and '69 and '70, the pitchers whom he caught were world-beaters including Denny McLain's 31 games in '68.

His career statistics are:
BA=.262, HR=200, RBI=758, OBP=.340, SLUG%=.412, OPS=112, FLD%=.993, CS%=.37 

And, for Michigan fans:

He was the best best catcher of his era hands down.  He is one of the most complete catchers of all - time.  If i was building an all time team Im pretty sure Id pick him as my catcher for his combo of hitting and defense.  I loved watching this guy pick guys off not paying attention leading off first base.  

Pudge Rodriguez is definitely first ballot material.

In 21 seasons, he managed to maintain a .296 career batting average, and even if he was not always a power threat, he was a very good contact hitter as catchers go. Seven Silver Slugger awards add to that, I think.

He was also one of the best defensive catchers of the modern era certainly, almost always in the top five in assists and putouts as well as caught stealing percentage and 13 Gold Gloves to back it up, if I recall.

Most interesting to me is that he is sixth among active players (until Monday, that is) in WAR, which means that he is an all-round solid contributor.

Are you kidding? First ballot HoFer!

Pudge should already be in the HOF. I hope he gets in on the first ballot, It'll give him good reason to put up another statue of himself. Go Pudge!

Yes, he belongs in the HOF.

The HOF voters believing he did 'roids would be the only thing potentially keeping him out.

Great catcher, great hitter and (judging from his stint with the Tigers and Nationals) great teammate.  On Mike & Mike, they had on their baseball guru, who ranked Pudge 9th all time on list of catchers, slightly behind Fisk and Carter.  Personally, I would have him higher, certainly above those two, as almost all of his batting stats are significantly better than their stats and he did get 13 or so gold gloves. 

To me, his most amazing stat is that he threw out 46% of the guys who tried to steal (more than 10% higher than Carter or Fisk), and had 7 seasons where he threw out more than 50% (highest season was 60%).  You have to believe that a lot of folks who otherwise would have been stealing bases stayed on first and sometimes stayed close enough to first so that they could not go from first to third on a single.

I've never understood the whole "first ballot" debate when it comes to certain players.  If a guy deserves to make the Hall of Fame, shouldn't he always be voted in on the first ballot?  I don't understand the argument that a guy deserves inclusion but not right away.  Either he's HoF material or he isn't, right?