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OT: Insight to HS football in Georgia (and the South)

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February 1st, 2013 at 10:09 AM
#1
YoOoBoMoLloRoHo
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Joined: 11/01/2012
MGoPoints: 1002
OT: Insight to HS football in Georgia (and the South)
The topic of high school football quality and recruiting in SEC country has been widely debated on this board. This free Rivals article lays out a case for Georgia's rise in HS football that pertains to many programs across the South. Writer's key points with a little first-hand commentary by this Atlantan: 1. High quality HS coaches. They are well paid, but also incur high turnover with immense pressure to win. 2. Year round training. Even junior high programs have organized S&C for the entire offseason in addition to 3 weeks of spring football. 3. Focus. These programs measure themselves by their players at SEC/ACC schools in football. http://footballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1466822 * Although not cited in the article, Milton lost in the first round of the playoffs and is considered an OK football school. Gwinnett County schools are among the Georgia powerhouses.

"Everybody wants to be a hero, so to speak.  But it takes everybody."  - Charles Woodson

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February 1st, 2013 at 10:21 AM | I live in Gwinnett, and attend many HS games here (Score:5 Normal)
ATLalumni
ATLalumni's picture
Joined: 01/28/2009
MGoPoints: 203

another thing people fail to mention is that this area is very affluent, and many pro players come to make this their home.  At almost every HS in Gwinnett, you'll find ex-players sons playing in every sport.  Orlando Brown's son plays for Peachtree Ridge, as did Cameron Heyward (of OSU).  Richard Seymour's son plays at North Gwinnett.  A HS game between North Gwinnett and Peachtree Ridge would have anywhere around 9-10 D-1 players in the game.  They can also bring in the best coaches because of the support from the community (i.e booster clubs)

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March 7th, 2013 at 1:45 AM | I saw live Orlando Brown, (Score:0 Redundant)
SHEER WIZARDRY
SHEER WIZARDRY's picture
Joined: 03/29/2010
MGoPoints: 111

catch a penalty flag square  in the eye ball. He got was flagged for being....well....flagged. 

 

You're avatar caught my eye and I had to timeline.....

 

Good day ma'am, from Jax, Fla - Familiar with it all. 

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February 1st, 2013 at 10:31 AM | I used to live in Peachtree (Score:2)
andben
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Joined: 03/17/2012
MGoPoints: 122

I used to live in Peachtree City which is just south of Atlanta, and football was everything all year round except at my old HS. My team would get wrecked by every school all year. One of our rival schools just down the road produces D-1 athletes year end and year out most notably Calvin Johnson. 

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February 1st, 2013 at 10:57 AM | You must have gone to (Score:2)
Johnny Blood
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Joined: 12/22/2010
MGoPoints: 492

You must have gone to McIntosh.  Not a football powerhouse at all, but lots of great schools in the surrounding area (Sandy Creek, Starrs Mill).

I currently live in PTC. 

Third generation Michigan alum

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February 1st, 2013 at 11:08 AM | you are correct (Score:2)
andben
andben's picture
Joined: 03/17/2012
MGoPoints: 122

you are correct

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February 1st, 2013 at 10:36 AM | It's athletics before (Score:1 Normal)
TheDirtyD
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Joined: 07/18/2009
MGoPoints: 943

It's athletics before academics in the suth it's sad really....

If you see someone in an airport with Michigan logos on luggage and they are wearing a pilot uniform come say hello.

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February 1st, 2013 at 10:59 AM | Welcome to the Suth (Score:5 Normal)
solo dolo
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Joined: 02/03/2010
MGoPoints: 847

Welcome to the Suth

"I think Hoke has changed the tide on the rivalry. Hell people in Ohio are starting to believe him. Never in a million years I would have thought that. Selling Michigan jerseys is a good start."

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February 1st, 2013 at 1:46 PM | Welcome to the "Dirty Suth". (Score:2 Normal)
Doughboy1917
Joined: 10/31/2010
MGoPoints: 2

Welcome to the "Dirty Suth".

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February 1st, 2013 at 11:24 AM | I live in the Walton School District in East Cobb... (Score:1)
DamnYankee
Joined: 07/15/2008
MGoPoints: 266

Our H.S. team this year has the # 1 or #2 rated RB in the state (depending on the rankings) and a high 3*/low 4* QB both committed to Alabama.  In addition, there are 3-4 linemen that have committed to play at Georgia, Tennessee and other D-1 Schools. 

As the OP said, there is no off-season and even middle school students are "highl encouraged" to attend off-season conditioning.

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February 1st, 2013 at 11:33 AM | Love football but (Score:1)
MGlobules
Joined: 11/17/2008
MGoPoints: 5145

this is not where I want the resources going at my daughter's cash-starved school. Nor what I want her cultural life to revolve around. Fortunately--interestingly--soccer is very big here in Florida  (Tallahassee) and in Atlanta, too, from what I hear. . .

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February 1st, 2013 at 11:42 AM | Soccer has a decent presence (Score:1)
YoOoBoMoLloRoHo
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Joined: 11/01/2012
MGoPoints: 1002

Lacrosse is the "hottest" sport in the northern suburbs. Still miles behind football in importance.

Per your comment on funding, the HS football program in my area turned a profit as boosters covered almost the entire operating cost for football before ticket revenue put the program in the black.

"Everybody wants to be a hero, so to speak.  But it takes everybody."  - Charles Woodson

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February 1st, 2013 at 11:42 AM | I think middle-schoolers (Score:2 Normal)
VSS
Joined: 06/23/2011
MGoPoints: 148

I think middle-schoolers doing organized conditioning and the pressure coaches face may be a bit more uncommon outside of the South, but year-round conditioning certainly is not. I think in parts of the South, you do see smaller programs emulate larger-schools more often, but something like year-round conditioning, formal and informal, has been around for a while pretty much everywhere. 

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February 1st, 2013 at 1:14 PM | Conditioning + spring differentiates (Score:2 Normal)
YoOoBoMoLloRoHo
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Joined: 11/01/2012
MGoPoints: 1002

"Winter" conditioning is modeled after BCS programs to prep for Mar/Apr practices. Essentially precludes any winter or spring sports because the off-season is so intense.

For example, my local HS was running 2 full groups of 7-on-7 last night under the lights (no coaches) after their 90 minutes of conditioning to prep for spring ball.

Urban pushed for spring football in Ohio because he believes it improves the quality of HS football, but the HS association turned down the idea to protect the other sports.

"Everybody wants to be a hero, so to speak.  But it takes everybody."  - Charles Woodson

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February 1st, 2013 at 11:42 AM | Cash starved schools (Score:2 Normal)
WestSider
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Joined: 02/04/2011
MGoPoints: 346

are abundant up here too. I am constantly deluged with 'fund raisers' for my son's elementary school, to the point where its a bit obnoxious. Teachers demand about $80 worth of school supplies per student to start the year, constant fliers asking for the purchase of overpriced items, etc. Anyway, the football gate receipts at the high school are phenomenal for its level. I think we should have an elementary sponsored football team and mini-stadium to keep up? Add beer sales and that would boost the bottom line!

Nobody who ever gave his best regretted it.

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February 1st, 2013 at 11:55 AM | So glad Milton lost! I'm a (Score:1)
Buccaneer_9
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Joined: 12/19/2008
MGoPoints: -210

So glad Milton lost! 

I'm a Roswell High grad ('93) and when I was in school, I played football, baseball & basketball.  Guys didn't specialize back then, we just played everything.  And when our season was over, we didn't really worry about that particular sport until it rolled around the following year.

I also live in East Cobb (right behind Wheeler High), like DamnYankee & my parents live in Gwinnett.  No matter where you go in the state, football is a 24/7/365 deal now & kids are deciding very early, what sport they want to focus on.  I would say the baseball & basketball in the south is JUST as competitive as the football.  A lot of these kids have rich parents who will spare NO expense to get their child to the next level.

There is a lot of good football here in Georgia.  My youngest sister goes to Norcross and she tells me that they are very, very good ('12 State Champs).  She also tells me that some of her buddies on the football team are nationally recruited.  One of her friends is already comitted/comitting to Ohio.  I told her to tell him it's a mistake!

Hell just look at Gwinnett County.  They have had a team win the last three state cahmpionships: Brookwood '10, Grayson '11 & Norcross '12.

Football is definitely a religion in these parts.

The Dalai Lama: "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun". (May 15, 2001, The Seattle Times)

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February 1st, 2013 at 1:03 PM | East Snob!  Just kidding.  My (Score:2)
willywill9
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Joined: 09/22/2008
MGoPoints: 11256

East Snob! 

Just kidding.  My girlfriend is from Atlanta (I was staffed in Alpharetta on a project, and met her down there.)  I somehow convinced her to move up to NYC for the time being (5 years and counting, she still owns her condo in Buckhead).  You're totally spot on though.  She's from LaGrange, and their HS coach got paid decently by the booster club.  

Georgia is a football factory I wish we tapped more into, but there's so much competition for recruits.  Even Georgia can struggle to retain some of the talent nowadays.

Touchdown Michigan!

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February 1st, 2013 at 1:20 PM | Hey (Score:1)
oriental andrew
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Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 4538

I lived in the wheeler district from 5th grade on. Attended sole creek elementary, then switched over to a private school, so never did attend Dickerson or wheeler. Before that, I lived literally a block away from redan high school. Back when I lived there, Chris Gardocki was the star kicker and broke the national high school record for longest field goal. I believe he went on to Clemson.

I've been way out of the loop on Georgia high school sports, but I have a couple cousins, one a frosh at auburn and another a jr in high school, and they both play lacrosse. They tell me it's really a hot sport right now for the guys, more so than soccer.

For my privacy, my new username is "non-Oriental non-Andrew"
 

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February 1st, 2013 at 1:12 PM | We are always going to be (Score:0 Normal)
Hokeforprez
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Joined: 02/28/2012
MGoPoints: 109

We are always going to be behind the south in outdoor sports. Not only is it hard to practice year around - it is not aloud, per MHSAA.

 

 
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February 1st, 2013 at 1:23 PM | As I noted above for Ohio, (Score:2 Normal)
YoOoBoMoLloRoHo
YoOoBoMoLloRoHo's picture
Joined: 11/01/2012
MGoPoints: 1002

the HSAA outside the South are rejecting this commitment to year-round football. This stance clearly mutes the quality of HS teams broadly and probably some individual talent specifically in the North.

Personally, year-round Fball is concerning to me both for safety factors and well-rounded kid development.

"Everybody wants to be a hero, so to speak.  But it takes everybody."  - Charles Woodson

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February 1st, 2013 at 4:16 PM | Not only is it hard to (Score:3 Funny)
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 28963

Not only is it hard to practice year around - it is not aloud, per MHSAA.

So they can only communicate with hand gestures? That sucks.

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February 1st, 2013 at 1:30 PM | I went to two highschools in (Score:1)
ToDefyTheFrizzleFry
Joined: 08/12/2010
MGoPoints: 200

I went to two highschools in Gwinnett (Berkmar and South) and the amount of D1 talent that comes out of that county in all sports is amazing. When I was a Berkmar we were top 10 in the nation in basketball, and Brookwood and Parkview were the same in football.

Like Buccaneer said above, football is a religion in those parts. 

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February 1st, 2013 at 2:02 PM | Berkmar? (Score:1)
User -not THAT user
User -not THAT user's picture
Joined: 06/05/2012
MGoPoints: 364

Far out...I graduated there in 1985.  Amazing how much things have changed in Gwinnett County since then.  Back then all of the high school talent was in south Georgia...Parkview was the only school in GWT that could play any football at all, but they and Brookwood were the comers at the time and developed into consistent programs...now just about EVERYONE in GWT are straight ballers.

When I was at Berkmar, our championship sports were wrestling and, er, chess.

 

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February 1st, 2013 at 2:17 PM | A question....even if (Score:1)
bluebyyou
Joined: 09/07/2009
MGoPoints: 2682

A question....even if conditioning and coaching is further advanced in certain areas, like the south,, wouldn't it be reasonable to surmise that with top quality collegiate S & C programs along with good coaching that catch-up occurs fairly quickly once kids get to college? 

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February 1st, 2013 at 2:28 PM | The gap on physical (Score:1)
Blarvey
Joined: 11/21/2011
MGoPoints: 181

The gap on physical development certainly closes in college, but if you are playing a higher level of competition in HS, I imagine they will be more used to the speed and size of opposing players, and they may also be playing more sophisticated schemes. Kind of like a LB coming to Michigan that played D1 ball at Cass Tech or DCC will likely be more prepared than a kid who played at a D8 that played against much smaller O-lines and teams that never threw the ball.

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February 1st, 2013 at 3:30 PM | If they get the chance ... (Score:1)
YoOoBoMoLloRoHo
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Joined: 11/01/2012
MGoPoints: 1002

Scholarships are directed to the more advanced players in HS. For example, Georgia has essentially the same population (9.8 million) as Michigan but 2.3-3x the number of D1 scholarships.

I don't think Georgia has that much more raw talent in 12 year olds but the development gap is noticeable by the time they're HS upperclassmen, so those kids get offers.

"Everybody wants to be a hero, so to speak.  But it takes everybody."  - Charles Woodson

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February 1st, 2013 at 4:22 PM | A couple key (Score:4 Normal)
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 28963

A couple key differences:

-Georgia's African-American population is about twice Michigan's.  College football is more than 50% black, so black people in general are more likely to get football scholarships than anyone else. 

-There is a significantly higher rate of participation in HS football in Southern states than there is in the rest of the country.  Looking at the overall population data is deceptive.  There are a lot more teenagers playing football there than here.  

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February 1st, 2013 at 5:37 PM | The second point is (Score:1)
YoOoBoMoLloRoHo
YoOoBoMoLloRoHo's picture
Joined: 11/01/2012
MGoPoints: 1002

not correct. I initially thought the #s were skewed to the South, but here is the # of HS football players for 2011 by a few states:

Florida 38,268
Georgia 32,088
Ohio 55,027
Michigan 43,678

Yes, far higher % of African Americans in South but I can't find any data for the differences in scholarship numbers to correlate with ethnicity.

"Everybody wants to be a hero, so to speak.  But it takes everybody."  - Charles Woodson

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February 1st, 2013 at 5:58 PM | Where did you get that data?  (Score:2)
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 28963

Where did you get that data?  I've seen much higher numbers than that for states like Georgia and Florida. 

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February 1st, 2013 at 6:27 PM | Rivals post-NSD summary (Score:1)
YoOoBoMoLloRoHo
YoOoBoMoLloRoHo's picture
Joined: 11/01/2012
MGoPoints: 1002

I should have cited and actually used 2011, but the data are similar to 2012. Rivals supposedly used data from National Federation of High School Sports for a summary every year.

http://highschool.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1328639
http://highschool.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1182411

"Everybody wants to be a hero, so to speak.  But it takes everybody."  - Charles Woodson

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February 1st, 2013 at 2:18 PM | Weather (Score:2 Informative)
Blarvey
Joined: 11/21/2011
MGoPoints: 181

There are a lot of things that favor football in the south: demographics, fewer pro teams, football-crazy culture, etc. but I think that when it comes to outdoor sports in general, weather plays a big part. In most of the south, you can play baseball and football year-round. Much of the north and midwest has snow or other prohibitive weather that prevents outdoor play.

Prior to moving to the south, I had never seen a group of kids playing football outside in January. I grew up in the midwest and there are not a lot days from December until March when you can run around outside and practice running routes, so a lot of high school athletes play basketball, hockey, or wrestle and then run track or play baseball in the spring. Also, 7-on-7 camps and tourneys have only begun to get big in the last ten or so years. I understand this has been big in at least Texas for a long time.

Assuming two groups of players from the north and the south play football as often as they can, if you estimate three months lost outside due to weather, a player from the north has missed nearly one year for every four a player from the south has played. You could argue that athletes will play other sports and can do off-season conditioning, but many athletes across the country do this.

I think it kind of shows in the type of northern athletes that are often successful pros in the NFL, mostly OLs, TEs, and LBs. The south and far west tend to produce a lot of DTs and DEs, DBs, and skill position players.

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February 1st, 2013 at 3:05 PM | Lived in Cartersville (Score:1)
marco dane
marco dane's picture
Joined: 07/01/2008
MGoPoints: 1003

My sons went to school with former Michigan recruit Donvan Tate. Presently,living in Jacksonville,AL (about 60mins from the ATL).

I made a comment,on this board, 2 years ago about recuriting here in the south. I still maintain that the I-10/I-20 corridors has enough talent to win any school a national title. I was ridculed for making that statement by some yahoo,however...someone here in allybama would agree would me. They have the hardware to show for it.

Lucky enough to have my own JT wristband!!

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February 1st, 2013 at 7:25 PM | As a coach.. (Score:1)
CoachBuczekFHS
CoachBuczekFHS's picture
Joined: 01/05/2012
MGoPoints: 146

I love this article, and I love the highlights the poster provided. There are several reasons the south has exploded in football the past decade. And part of it is that we are handicapped up north in some regards when it comes to high school. In the south they have year round training (we have year round weight-lifting, but there are so many rules against off-season OTA's in MHSAA). They have spring practice (we don't), well paid coaches (I'm a 25 year old varsity assistant and I've been on staff for 5 years, I make $1000/year, and I'm doing football related activities all year long) we get paid barely anything for the time we put in and for as little as we make most people can't afford to put the time in and make almost nothing for it. Sometimes this leads to coaches hiring guys on their staffs who are low-quality coaches (insert like you thought here). There is immense pressure to win (I'd say we are under pressure, but not like for sale signs in your yard pressure), weather conditions (they can run 7 on 7 and do all things outside all year round that we can't). We have draconian rules (We can only work with 5 players and a ball at a time during the off-season). Way more resources for football, and I hate to say more passionate fans but I almost have too. I think it there was the same level of dedication here then the playing field would be a little bit more balanced in terms of production of HS talent. 

Elite Athletics. Elite Academics. 
896-310-36, 53-42-6 vs. Ohio, 94-74  vs. Little Brother, 20-6-1 vs. SEC
Let them throw rocks...they still have to HAIL! 
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