OT: Help/Advice with Grad School
I understand this is very off-topic, but I need another perspective. I was recently accepted to Graduate school at Temple University. I was also accpeted at a smaller state school west of Philadelphia but I have graduated with lots of debt from the loans I took out for the school I had received my BS.
My problem is that Temple is more than double the price of the other school but the education is definitely better. Since I have to pay for this education on my own, I will need more loans to cover the price of tution. I don't know if I should go the less expensive route to save me from huge amounts of debt or should I just simply go for the better education and hope it pays off. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Personally I'd go with left-handed knuckleball pitcher. But really great basketball player is a good career track too now with all of the opportunities abroad.
make sure that your degree is career oriented. I have a a few friends that spent that extra money getting an masters liberate arts degree. They are unemployed but have even more dept. But if you think its something that will advance your career and make you more marketable, go to Temple. Name and reputation means something whether or not people want to admit it.
I'm not sure about kinesiology, but for many fields (my perspective is from engineering) you shouldn't just pick the school, you should pick the specific advisor you want to work for. Grad work focuses on one very small aspect of a field; one specific topic. You need to work for someone doing something you are interested in. Also, where they are in their own career is a big deal too. There's often a trade off between new profs that don't have much funding, but are very driven to get more (and can tend to micromanage) and established profs that have plenty of funding, but might require you to be more self-sufficient.
Also, your advisor's connections will likely be your best leads when it's time to look for a job when you're done.
If Temple isn't a first rate ticket to where you want to go then take the less expensive route..Either way,latch onto a professor(s) and get into projects/internships that will demonstrate your ethic and abilities to future employers. When I interview someone, a good degree is an advantage, but only a very good one. Amongst the next tier I want a list of names to call and when I talk to them I want to hear about how much the candidate knows and how hard he works. Good luck!
I'm currently getting my Doctorate in Physical Therapy and feel that you should go to the cheaper school. I had options from the top PT schools in the country and chose to go to a slightly lower ranked school where I could get tuition paid for via a graduate assistantship. And I couldn't be happier and more successful. Ultimately the education you get is what you make of it. As long as the other option is average or above you will have all the tools you need - more important is your individual effort and getting great clinical rotations (pretty sure you will have some?).
I am sure the school that you are attending is tremendous for the DPT (not being sarcastic) and that it meets your needs. Ultimately it seems that the capacity to work with a more elite faculty and to be able to market that are not indicated in your profession/role. Fair enough. Given the path the OP is talking about it would be relevant to have the opportunity to work with D1 Big East/A10 athletes (not saying that opportunities wouldn't be available elsewhere) at a resume level (given he's going to have to sell his experience in a competitive milieu).
There will always exist the debate of "name school" versus "cheaper, less well known secondary alternative". The "name school" alumni like myself go with the reputation, excellence, quality of faculty/resources/connnections line while the "cheaper less well known secondary alternative" scholars go with the "it's what you make of it" argument. I agree it's what you make of it and your clinical efforts are a key determinant. That said, what if "it's what you make of it occurred at a better rated school, with better facilities, faculty and learning opportunities?"
Isn't this why athletes choose Michigan over, say, Akron?
I certainly do agree that "name" does play a role in one's success (and I certainly would refute that working with an elite faculty is not indicated in my profession - it definitely is). But I think one thing to keep in mind is who finds the school elite and does it matter if they do? I have met and worked with numerous upper-echelon faculty from many other schools with my research and can tell you that plenty of them have a reputation that is not backed up by talent. The OP needs to really probe into what others within the profession think of the various programs because being buried in debt going to an overrated school (and they do exist) is not worth it. One more point to add - having less debt allows one to take more career risks such as taking a lower paying job upon graduation that has obvious room for exponential career growth (very prevalent in the OP's career) versus taking a higher paying job with less options for skill and knowledge enhancement in order to pay off enormous debts. Never an easy decision!
Because I am old (52,) the cost of a Michigan education was cheap. Tuition, room, board, books, and expenses for me at Michigan was less than $4,000 a year, BEFORE scholarships, grants, work study, etc. Student loans, when I was finished, had an interest rate well under 3%. For me, it was stupid to consider anything but a Michigan education.
My 19 year old daughter, on the other hand, is in a vastly different world. According to UofM's website (http://www.finaid.umich.edu/TopNav/AboutUMFinancialAid/CostofAttendance.aspx) the cost for tuition, books, room & board, and misc. expenses for her is now more than $50,000 a year. As much as I would have loved for her to go to Michigan, we sadly concluded that it just wasn't worth it. She is bright enough to get in, but is not brilliant enough to win or compete for a full ride scholarship. The grants and aid I received are no longer available. The summer job I had at Ford Motor Company in Dearborn allowed me to make and save enough to pay for close to a full year's education. It is impossible in 2012 for a student to find a summer job paying anything like that percentage of college costs.
Currently, I don't care how much more scintillating the discourse and discussion, how great the physical facilities, how beautiful the campus, how proficient the professors, it just isn't justifiable to go to school and end up with debt more than twice my current mortgage. I am neither resentful nor bitter, but an education at Michigan is now reserved for the wealthy, the privileged, the truly brilliant, the children of those with incomes well into six figures. We don't qualify, which is what it is.
I take issue with your last paragraph because you leave out low-income families in Michigan. The U works very hard to keep a U-M education within reach of those families.
I know that's little help to those many families caught in that middle-income squeeze, but it's not fair to say that only the rich can manage U-M.
Fair enough. I'll grant your point. If you fall within the right demographic stratum (socioeconomically, racially, and perhaps also in terms of the degree program desired,) you are correct, there is always going to be room for you, and scholarship support will be provided.
Unfortunately, I fall in the white, middle class, out of state demographic. I don't lament this, because I undoubtedly have had many advantages in life. I support the University in seeking to gain diversity and to support those who are disadvantaged.
Let me save you a lot of trouble - it's probably a bad idea. And your lead in was way too generic. I don't even know what type of grad school you are talking about.
Don't go to grad school and rack up more debt, instead do the only smart thing you can do at this point: Sell drugs.
Think about it, you don't have to pay taxes, neighborhood teenagers will respect you. Plus you have an excuse to wear a big gold chain. You can't lose
Could we please stop these personal advice threads?
Here's a link to a bunch of data on the current student debt bubble in the US:
The First Crack: $270 Billion in Student Loans Are At Least 30 Days Delinquent
Since you've already expressed some concern with your existing debt from undergrad, I would highly recommend that you scrutinise the potential debt load of grad school very carefully. Some loans might be necessary, but keep it to a minimum.
Oh, and this advice was carved in stone for a reason:
(Image of the Babson rock via forexstreet.net)
Are you the kind of person who will do whatever it takes to get to your desired goal? If not, go to the name school (assuming Temple will open doors). The prestige will buy you access you won't get from other places. If you're truly ambitious, save the money and trust that you won't quit until you get to where you want.
I'm in a field with tons of MBAs. The majority are from top 10 schools, but I come across a number guys who don't have an MBA and went to random midwest directional school and are incredibly successful. They opened doors for themselves through hard work and determination. The rest of us worked hard, but at some level, the name on our diploma helped grease the skids.
April 24th, 2012 at 10:01 PM ^
I think it comes down to where you see yourself working and in what capacity. If you are getting an advanced degree because you plan on working in the Philly area or Temple has a strong program in that field, then go there. Also, if you are looking to continue on to a Ph.D. program, then consider how lmany graduates from either program matriculate to a degree program. But if you are going to graduate school to pad your resume but you don't see it as an essential stepping stone, then maybe less money would make more sense.
In my situation, I am working full-time and getting an MS at night, and I picked the higher-ranked school in part because the program was more flexible but also because the extra cost seemed like a good investment to increase my marketability in my field. But I could have gone to the other school and I don't think it would have hurt my employment potential much. But others in my program are looking to Ph.D. programs, and so the institution (and the grades) matter more.
April 24th, 2012 at 10:16 PM ^
And nobody cares about where you went to school after your first job. Unless there is a huge difference in the quality of this unnamed other school, go there. But unless you were choosing between say, Michigan and Eastern, take the lower cost school.
April 25th, 2012 at 12:29 PM ^
For some occupations, what school you attended determines whether or not you get the job (primarily finance).
But yes, once you get the job, your evaluations are based on performance.
April 24th, 2012 at 10:33 PM ^
As others have suggested, see what assistantships are available. These often include tuition remission. Not sure if they are available at all in your field, but it's worth investigating.
April 24th, 2012 at 11:10 PM ^
All I know is that I'm very excited about coming back to Michigan for my PhD this fall.
Less expensive
Enough students get driven bad into student debt as is, no need to join the crowd
The school you go to will help you with your first job -- which in turn could set you up on the right track for your career. A better school and you have a higher chance of a better first job.
That said, beyond your first job, everything else is really up to you and I have seen plenty of smart, highly motivated people make it that went to lower-ranked schools.
April 25th, 2012 at 11:03 AM ^
My take: the more expensive school is only justified in one of two cases. One: there is a real, tangible expectation that the extra cost would be paid back through a higher salary over 5-7 years. Two: it enables you to compete for jobs that the less-expensive school can't *and* that job is important to your overall life happiness.
I suspect that neither of these are super likely. According to the NRC data (link here: http://graduate-school.phds.org/rankings/kinesiology), sorting based on reputation, student outcomes, and student services, Temple is low on the list of ranked programs. It's likely that the other school you are considering is unranked on this list, but even so---Temple won't be an order-of-magnitude better in employers' eyes in the way that, say, one of the top 4-5 programs might.
Now, granted: the NRC rankings are for Ph.D. programs, not MS programs. And, YMMV. But, my gut says save the money, because Temple doesn't have enough juice.