OT - Help me craft a sales pitch to wife for relocating to Michigan (Grand Rapids)
I am originally from the great State of Michigan (Farmington Hills), having graduated from UM in 2000. I relocated to Arizona for career reasons in 2006 and have been living in Phoenix ever since. There is, however, a decent to strong possibility that I may be offered a job in the Grand Rapids area within the next two months. If offered, it would represent an advancement in my line of work, but would be around an 8 percent pay cut (vastly different salary averages in AZ vs. MI for my profession). I absolutely hate my current job, and love the state where I was born and raised, so if all things were my decision, it would be an easy one to accept the position (if offered) and relocate to GR.
It is not solely my decision to make, however. After dating for around 3 years, I married my wife in December '14. She has lived her entire life in Texas and Arizona, and has family (including both parents) that live in the Phoenix area. In GR we would be 2 hours from my folks in SE Michigan but her family would be over 1,600 miles and three time zones (2 during winter) away. We have no kids, yet, but they are a possibility in the next few years. She also hates her job (a plus for moving) and works in a field that I'm sure she could find employment in back in GR.
Help me sell this potential relocation to my wife, or alternatively, talk me out of returning to Michigan. I'm struggling with this and really appreciate anybody's advice, guidance, or tips! You just don't realize how much more difficult decisions become once you make them for 2 (or more, with kids).......
March 26th, 2015 at 11:36 PM ^
I almost made this mistake.
When I moved back to Michigan in 2010 I almost took a significant pay cut. Instead I actually stayed working part-time contracts and eventually took a remote position for about 25% more than anyone in the Ann Arbor area was paying that was closer to the last salary that I had. If I had taken the job at the going rate in the Ann Arbor area I might have lowered my "rate" and cost myself a ton of money.
Or maybe not, but it seems like it was easier to negotiate the higher rate because I hadn't taken the full-time position that under-paid me, even though that was the going rate in the area.
as a newlywed i took a paycut of over 50% to move from socal to the UP and didn't even flinch. got my builder's license and built my mgobride a house in the woods, we started our family. so grateful we came home, the money filled in later, but the quality of life simply can't be replaced.
Grand Rapids area is a great place to live. Lots of stuff to do in and around the area. I have three children, and we live just outside of the city. Schools are great too. Within an hours drive of many beach towns as well. Cost of living is probably less here as well. Tigers, Red Wings and Pistons all have minor league affiliates here.
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GR is a fantastic little city that's gotten even better since I left (coincidence?) In addition to what chunkums said/my thoughts
It's affordable in most areas.
You can commute from a pretty wide area fairly quickly...I personally think Ann Arbor has worse traffic than GR on an average work day.
You're a few hours from Chicago or Detroit if you want to get to a game, concert, do a weekend in the city etc.
Good schools.
The downtown is really fun now (ten years ago, wouldn't have said the same thing). Brewery scene, Artprize, Griffins aligned with Wings, nice restaurants...it's pretty great. And the city is growing, at least in the core.
Best beaches for my money in the 48 states (ew salt water) if only for a few weeks a year, you're within a short drive and can do a weekend vacation affordably.
I am two hours from my folks in GR as well and 96 isn't a bad drive at all. GR is nice because you're closer to Traverse/up north as well.
I'm very biased but hey, good luck in your decision. I've grown to like this side of the state too. Yeah winters suck...I would think the AZ summer being so brutal would kinda balance that out for me.
There are some great things about GR, don't get me wrong and I enjoy the occasional visit.
But you want to move back for the wrong reasons. GR is a "safe" choice for you. You want to do great things in life? Stick with the road less traveled.
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March 26th, 2015 at 11:08 PM ^
Have you been in Chicago since undergrad graduation? Still in city proper or the burbs? It seems many of my older friends who moved to Chicago have migrated back to Michigan after 6-10 years. Have you noticed that too or no?
Can she handle the cold? If not, it's out of the question. If she can, I'm not sure why the two of you would want to stay somewhere if you both have jobs you hate. Money is hardly everything with two working adults, particularly if you aren't planning on a six pack of kids.
I have to say, I don't really get the relatives thing. If you see them a few times a year, that seems fine; we live in a modern era of communication and blah blah. Use Meetup to make friends or something, even if social interaction seems to dwindle as you move away from college and so on.
Also, Arizona is known for having a certain "climate"... and I'm not talking about the weather. Some people will hate to leave that while others would be happy to get away. That might be a factor.
Do you work for Herman Miller? They're in Zeeland right?
First off, there are regular cheap direct flights from GR to Phoenix, so your wife can visit familty or they can visit you. Not sure about Texas.
Second, craft beer. Founders (GR), Bell's(Kalamzoo), Brewery Vivant(GR), Perrin's (Comstock Park), Odd Side(Grand Haven), New Holland (Holland, plus opening a pub in GR soon) just to name a few. All of these excellent breweries are within an hours drive. Plus Hopcat. There are also some wineries and distilleraries around. I'm not a big bar guy these days but there are some interesting ones around here.
Third, GR is nice because you can enjoy a vibrant mid sized city but are also a short drive on 96 to Lake Michigan. Feel like spending a weekend in Chicago? Its not that long of a drive and you can pick up a train from Michigan City or Gary (Or GR for that matter). Ann Arbor, Lansing and Detroit are also not long drives. Want to get away from it all? Jump on Northbound 131 and pretty soon you'll have more hunting, fishing, hiking and camping opportunities than you can shake a stick at. Getting to the UP is a bit of a hike but worth it.
Lakes. So many lakes. Buy a boat! Learn to sail!
Grand Rapids winters are not that bad (although we've had two cold ones in a row). We get some lake effect snow but nowhere near what an Allegan or Holland might get. And the snow is beautiful and many people learn to love it. Plus then you get the beautiful summers where 100F is rare.
Food. Great restaurants in GR. Brewery Vivant, Bartertown, etc.
Schools. I'd do some research in this, but there are some very good school districts around here if y'all do have kids.
Arts. ArtPrize is pretty cool. Some nice museums, plus opera, ballet, symphony, theatre. I'm not qualified to tell you how good or bad these are relative to other towns, but they are there if you are into culture.
Music. Seems like everybody except the biggest of the big acts come here. Also, lots of venues for smaller indie type bands. Founders always seem to have some band I've never heard of playing.
As far as the pay cut, that sucks but my understanding from relatives in Cave Creek is that its cheaper here.
I find the people here to be pretty friendly and the traffic is far better than SE Michigan.
Good luck, hope that it all works out one way or the other!!
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I know I just pitched a bunch of stuff in GR's favor, but I'm not sure an Arizona native could be happy with Grand Rapids winters. They can be pretty brutal.
If your jobs (and income) allow it, going back to AZ every end of Feb/March would be a great vacation!! Additionally, when it's crazy hot in AZ family/friends can come up and spend a great time in Michigan. I personally visit my family in Sarasota FL first thing every March, it's the perfect timing to get you over the winter hump.
I still maintain that a michigan winter is far better than a Phoenix summer.
This thread reminds me....
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When her first husband died she moved back....all of 3 weeks. Came back with no friends of family. I moved out here with no friends or family. Sure it is tough raising kids without family but winter is a major league cluster f%^& and I do not know too many people who would move back to it or move to it without a major upside ( big promotion ). To take a pay cut to go back to winter ? I'm not sure you could convince a lot of folks to do that. Especially if she doesn't have a job in Mi yet. Don't get your hopes up.
When I was young and starting out in my career, my stepfather, who was quite successful in my same field, told me to always go where the job was. Even if it was a place I loathed. If the job was good (criteria for that: taught you a lot, room for upward movement, good accounts, more responsibility, interesting people), then you take the job. That's what the early years are for. Later, when you've established yourself, have a solid reputation, and a strong resume, then you can be more picky.
We have water and Arizona doesn't.
'You don't want to raise kids and support a family doing something you hate every single day because you're afraid it'll affect your family ... You want to be happy and taking this job will help that.'
Something to that extent will always work with my wife and with the military it has to work a lot.
Then get her excited about house hunting.
March 26th, 2015 at 10:36 PM ^
Hmm. Until we know the wife's profession, we won't know whether this is a pro or con...
Put a Michigan hat on the table and an Arizona hat on the table. Fax a nice letter of intent to the in-laws telling them you two are moving to GR.
2. We have lots of lakes and water- boating and beer is awesome.
3. Grand Rapids is booming. Young and fun town lots of cool developing business. She can find a job pretty easily.
4. Grand haven is only 20 min away and that beach is the bomb! Turn on american pie to help convince. That was filmed in grand haven.
5. If you like craft beer it's craft beer city USA
6. We have all seasons - AZ doesn't!!!
7. If she loves you; she has to be open to new adventures. Can always go back to AZ.
8. Less traffic then Phoenix.
9. Lower cost of living unless you plan on moving to East Grand Rapids
10. Michigan people are cooler than AZ people.
11. Now is the time to do this before have kids.
12. She needs to support you with your path.
13. We have torch lake; AZ doesn't. Havasu is polluted.
14. Better sports here. Tell her she won't experiance anything like the big house.
I think this should do it. I have been in this position before when I lived in Boston. I have never been happier moving back to Michigan. Glad I did it.
Best of luck man and of course go blue!
I have lived in GR my whole life and having Founders in your backyard is a blessing along with being an hour away from Bell's not to mention all the other great Michigan breweries.
Can accurately claim that it's been RichRod-free since 2010.
GR is a pretty cool city. Not small town but also not big city. easy drive to Chicago, Detroit and Ann Arbor. You can quickly get Up North which consists of everything from the somewhat cosmopolitan flavor of Traverse City to rural Prudenville on Houghton Lake and everything in between. And the lakes, I like to visit mountainous areas, they are beautiful, but I can't LIVE without my lakes!
Not sure where you are, Phoenix is blah, but Tuscon is pretty nice--still bloody hot though. I grew up in GR, left MI in 2000 after graduating from U of M, and I would never move back.
Downsides to Grand Rapids:
- Winter. 4-5 Months of grey skies with no sunshine, that's depressing. You & your wife will suffer through the first few winters until your blood thickens up. If you are active outdoor people you better get into cross country skiing or half the year is a wash.
- If you live in or like big cities & urban living, you're gonna be dissappointed. Downtown in nice, but small.
- Outside of downtown, it's kind of a generic city of big box retail, strip malls & suburbs.
- People who have never left Grand Rapids/West Michigan think it is amazing. And they can't stop talking about it how amazing it is.
- If you are going to the midwest Chicago is 3 hours away and a proper big city, why not live there?
- Small regional airport, no direct flights, flying to and from during the winter is no fun.
- Say goodbye to real mexican food (except for a few spots north of downtown).
- Culturally & ethnically, it's going to be pretty homogenous compared to the southwest.
- Amway & Amway people.
- Optional depending on your politics: it's pretty conservative compared to the east side of the state.
March 26th, 2015 at 10:18 PM ^
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GR is run by amway, alot of self-righteres people. downtown has been improved, but housing is over priced. i lived there for 6 long years, moved to cave creek and there is no comparrison. taxes are also alot higher in michigan.