OT: Great BBC Documentary on Racism in Polish and Ukranian Soccer

Alright team, you know what this means - ROLL OUT THE BOOBIEZ!!

I love Europe and the time I've spent there but it's absolutely one of the most racist places.  Don't forget that where a lot of "theories" about race/eugenics/etc originated in Europe and were used to justify imperialistic actions.  Yeah, the US was pretty bad domestically but Europe was pillaging Africa and Asia during our reconstruction period.  They still haven't fully gotten over it.  Eastern Europe is still particulalry bad.

Then see if you think the US isn't that racist.

I'm not sure what you're referring to but with my limited knowledge I'd have to say that eastern Europe is certainly worse in this regard, mostly based on what I've heard from Englishmen I know who are black and Indian. I don't think that black English player would be on there if England was just as bad. English hooligans have a terrible reputation, deservedly so, but I've heard things have changed a lot since a few decades ago or whenever it was worse.

Also, you sound like you're talking about something like a roster choice. Which, whether racist or not, is a far cry from beating the hell out of your team's fellow fans because they're not white.

Uh-oh. It was taking a while to load so I hit save like 5 times really fast. Apparently that posted every time. I'll probably get negged under 100 now haha. Sorry

The US is definitely one of the least racist countries in the world. All groups of people are racist frankly, but the US has had to deal with so many racial issues that it's gotten over things to a great extent. Obviously, racism is a problem in America still, but it's certainly better than most of the rest of the world. European countries (especially those farther east) don't have as much racial tension and race crimes simply because there are far less minorities there. It's just a matter of numbers in that regard.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/29052012/58/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-say-racism-claims-invented-uk.html

Take a look at this response by some Poles and Ukrainians. The stupidest thing is how white players let the media know their fans aren't racist. They have Nigerian players and they're fine supposedly. But why aren't the black players interviewed on here? God forbid someone in the media might have actually walked to the other side of the locker room to ask one of them. Mind-bogglingly stupid.

I taught English in Europe for a very short time and for one class, I brought in an article I had just seen showing neo-Nazis on the steps of the Italian parliament doing a sieg heil. I figured  that could be a good discussion, but nobody gave a damn about it. Like that dude says in the OP's video, it's not so much that someone painted some racist stuff on a wall but that thousands of people walk by it and don't seem to mind.

Augusta and Wood. This area was sometimes called Polish Broadway. There are still some signs of eastern european culture (orthodox churches, bars) but its mostly white or Latino. I bet it's much different that what it was for you.



I know this has nothing to do with the board topic, but thought I would comment anyway.

It's more so a case of Soviet rule made it so we didn't know what was exactly going on.... now with a decade or two of a some what open press it's being laid out for the world to see.

the thing is many of them likely really don't think that what they're doing is racist. they're likely to think it's healthy nationalism. when i was over there, it was very commonplace to meet people who would claim that what i saw as their obviously racist attitudes were really just a result of their being honest about their thoughts. they thought, when i denied sharing their racist attitudes, that i was obviously lying. much of the issue, especially in towns where nazis exterminated all the jews, is that there are no publicly identifiable members of the groups they're villifying that they interact with on a personal basis, so there's no feedback from members of those groups to get them to realize that what they're doing is wrong.

also, i have no doubt that ukrainians would deny that violence against foreign students is indicative in any way of how tourists would be treated, because they think how they treat people domestically has nothing to do with how they'd treat visitors, and is nobody's business except theirs. (i've met several dutch people who think it's a worthwhile observation that only americans and french people think they can go around telling people what's right and wrong and how they should act.) but in general, many europeans really have no conception of what it would be not to be racist, in an american sense.

an anecdote that might help: an austrian friend of mine visited romania, and was told by his romanian girlfriend that several areas were dirty because gypsies lived there. she wasn't being racist, she claimed--she was just telling him where the dirty parts were. it was a simple matter of fact to her that gypsies were dirty. but for his part, he couldn't tell which parts were gypsy areas and which parts were ethnically romanian. when i denied, speaking to another romanian girl, that there were morally important differences between romanians and gypsies living there, her reply was "oh...so americans have no culture. that's very interesting. so if i ever want to have no culture, i can move to america."

Don't know, but racism is prevalent in those countries as well. Spain is notoriously racist (especially when it comes to soccer).

Northern Italians do not think much of the poorer, less ethnically pure Southern Italians. Sicily in particular is a subject for disdain. My family is from  central Italy and I was told long ago that  Italians from the Mezzogiorno were "less Italian" than others.

It should be kept in mind that Italy and Germany are younger  as states than the US. While there has been an Italian and German ethnic identity for centuries there has not been a unified state. Hence, the provincialism that many felt and to a certain extent, still feel in both countries.