December 8th, 2009 at 3:20 PM ^
Good point. Plus (from mlbtraderumors.com):
The Tigers receive four players: starter Max Scherzer, relievers Daniel Schlereth and Phil Coke, and center fielder Austin Jackson. The Tigers get five years of Scherzer, six of Schlereth, five of Coke, and six of Jackson, potentially 22 years of control in total. Scherzer, 25, and Jackson, 23 in February, are probably considered the prizes of the haul.
That's a lot of years of cheap control for Detroit.
December 8th, 2009 at 3:44 PM ^
Your giving Coke too much credit. I am a huge Yankees fan, and watched every game closely. Phil Coke was apart of the "Philthies"(Coke and Hughes-Yankees broacaster Michael Kay coined the term). But I did not see how he was filthy in anyway. I saw a pitcher that was an accident waiting to happen. I saw someone thats stuff was the most vulnerable of any pitcher to get absolutely rocked. And what happened? He got crushed. He gave up the most home runs of any MLB reliever.
As for your tendency to kill relievers comment, that was under Joe Torre. Joe Girardi balances it out. It shouldnt have mattered with Coke anyway because he was groomed to be a starter, but moved to the bullpen at the end of the 08 season. He was even told to go into the 09 spring training preparing to start.
December 8th, 2009 at 4:10 PM ^
Micheal Kay sucks donkey balls. He said that Chamberlain's pitch count is high because his stuff is too filthy, so that hitters foul off too many pitches. I about fell out of my chair with trying to swallow that load.
Coke was groomed to be a starter, hence pitching every fifth day. The grind of a season, not knowing when you will pitch or pitch every other day is not easy to learn.
Plus, I will argue with the World Series title, Giraldi did grind his bullpen. He had nothing left at the end. Hence, you going with the 3 man and using Joba from the pen. Your bullpen was one of the best early in the season, but by the end your bullpen had nothing left. Part of the problem being Gaudin, Joba and Pettite are 5 inning pitchers in the regular season.
This is why in the playoff games, you were consistently going to Riveria for 2 innings.
Giraldi doesn't have a rep for killing bullpens, but between the stadium and last year he's starting to build one.
December 8th, 2009 at 5:22 PM ^
If Giardi grinded his bull pen at all it is because of Major injuries to Marte, Bruney, Wang and others.
If you keep those guys healty then your in damn good shape plus Joba's three inning per start August/September was a grind forced on them by management.
December 8th, 2009 at 5:53 PM ^
I admitted that Giraldi had to use his bullpen more because of the 5 innings or less of Gaudin, Joba, and Pettite.
Thats the point, Giraldi DIDN'T keep those guys healthy due to overuse and caused the injuries. Marte's and Bruney broke down because of overuse.
Look the guy won a world series, and doesn't have the rep yet of killing a bullpen, but the pieces of there.
December 8th, 2009 at 3:23 PM ^
Granderson was a 24 years old when he played in the International League. He basically went:
290 average, 890 OPS, 15 HRs, 150-50 k/bb, 22 for 28 SBs.
Jackson was a 22 year old in the International League and went:
300 average, 760 OPS, 5 HRS, 140-50 k/bb, 24 for 28 SBs (in 60 more at-bats)
At the same level, and being two years younger, Jackson struck out less and had less power. But a lot of the other numbers are pretty similar.
December 8th, 2009 at 3:35 PM ^
I like this but be careful comparing minor league numbers, especially in power.
Minor leagues are littered with guys who have tools and the power never develops. Granderson's power did develop, which made him special.
Jackson's power may never develop, but he should be a better, more consistent hitter, and not an automatic out with a lefty on the mound. This is the risk they are taking.
Plus be careful, if you want a trip compare Sizemore's numbers to Utley's. If you look at that Sizemore is the next Utley. (No I don't actually believe this.)
December 8th, 2009 at 4:27 PM ^
I agree... you have to be careful comparing minor league numbers... but in terms of Grandy vs A-Jax, it's a big part of what we have to go on right now. Sure, sometimes guys don't pan out and sometimes the Sizemore's of the world look like the next Utley. But for everyone saying Granderson is "great" and "irreplaceable"... at least take a look at what Detroit is getting. I'm well aware of the track record NYY prospects have when they are traded... but everyone seems to think this trade is a big win for Detroit. Sure, losing the face of the franchise sucks. But it's okay to be excited about a possible Granderson 2.0 and saving 30-40 million over the next 3 years on Grandy and E-Jax.
December 8th, 2009 at 5:49 PM ^
Just not a fan of of comparing minor league numbers to make points
December 8th, 2009 at 8:08 PM ^
I think everyone will agree with me when I say GRANDY NOOOOOOOOOO!