OT? - General question about hockey
I've only really started watching hockey in the last couple of weeks (yes, really), and since we have so many hockey people on the board, I thought I'd ask: What is a clean hit and what is a dirty hit in hockey? I know (or think I know) that you can't leave your feet and that you aren't supposed to bring your arms/stick above your shoulders to hit someone*, but it seems like I'm missing things. I should clarify that I'm not necessarily asking for a definition of what hits are against the black-letter law of the rules - I'm really more interested in what hockey people consider to be dirty. I make the distinction because the current NFL rules of what constitutes an illegal hit are not always in line with what I consider a dirty hit.
Anyway, thank you for your hockey knowledge.
*Also: Don't pick a fight with JimLahey's dad.
and hitting from behind are a couple of things the NHL is trying to eliminate. Head shots can be more than just elbows to the head. Even a shoulder to the head can be considered a head shot.
Charging is when you take more than 3 strides to hit someone. So there are three examples of illegal hits. I'm sure there are more
It seems like I've seen a lot of plays in which, say, a Capitals player beats a Rangers player to a puck that is along the boards and the Rangers player then slams the Capitals player into the boards. Is that necessarily illegal?
You can check on the boards, as long as they aren't too far away from the glass.
Again it's gray area. You won't see penalties called if the two guys are engaged and up against the boards fighting for the puck. If the player is pursuing the puck and the other guy pushes him from behind off his feet in a way that causes the first player to fly head first into the boards, then it's a penalty.
It's basically to the referee's discretion. Basically it's legal if you keep your elbows down and skates on the ice prior to contact (roughing), don't use your stick (spear, cross-check) and don't hit someone into the boards from behind (boarding). The three strides thing is almost never called, but technically against the rules.
Sometimes a legal hit may still be considered dirty considering the context (defenseless player, checks into the glass corners by the benches, etc).
You may check the puck carrier, or the player who just had the puck ("finishing your check.") If two players are skating for the puck and both make body (not stick or hand) contact while neither has an advantage, that's considered a fair collision. If a player has a clear advantage to a loose puck and is impeded by the opposing player, that's interference.
But like above posters have said, it's discretionary. In terms of "is it legal" think of the strike zone. It's up to the umps/refs and as long as they're consistent, it's usually OK to both teams. I think Shanahan (while his discipline was wacky this post season) has done a great job with the youtube videos he's used to explain suspensions.
And accurate. 10/10.
Regarding OP, generally you'll get the idea of dirty with an unnecessary/wreckless hit that can or does cause injury.
Don't hit the head ever, unless it's the fault of the guy getting hit (skating with head down, making a move, etc.). You'll see guys get their faces smashed in (like a Kronwallian smash) but no penalty because the guy getting hit is skating with his head at shoulder level and Kronwall is technically playing the body.
Clean hits can be from behind if the guy is up against the boards and you aren't charging him (really more of a pinning or defensive check), but this can be up to the refs discretion if the hitter is violent.
Pretty much any check from the front with contact initiated below head/above knees is going to be legit (unless it's interference where the guy hasn't had the puck for a few seconds).
And don't judge a hits legality by the reaction of the opposing team. When guys get creamed it has unfortunatly become common practice for the teammates of the demolished player to get their panties all in a bunch and start fights and cheapshotting everything in their way (Chicago, Vancouver, San Jose...well way too many teams have started to do this). The refs can be a good judge on clean vs. dirty hit, but they're not always consistent. The announcers generally have a good idea with their slow-mo replays.
Refs are at their worst when it comes to the chintzy hooking, tripping, interference sorts of penalties (no consistency in any game). But when it comes to hits they tend to be pretty good.
Shanahan, on the other hand, is a fricking joke and don't pay attention to anything he says or does with regards to suspensions. Who knows where his Wheel O' Suspensions will land next...
It is a hard thing to define a dirty hit in hockey, because it is often a matter of degree and timing. For example, you are not supposed to hit someone from behind, but a lof of hits along the boards are somewhat from behind, often because the player might try to spin away from the hit or might try to use his body to shield the puck.
Probably the worst hits are those that are from behind and are a few feet away from the boards. Rather than having your whole body make contact with the boards (or at least much of your upper body), you are more likely to catch just your head on the boards, and that is how people get head and neck injuries.
It is also a matter of timing. You can finish a check if the player just got rid of the puck, but you can't hit him too long after that. It is kind of like roughing the passer in football - a split second is okay, a couple of seconds is not.
When checking, the contact should also come above the waist and below the neck. Going knee-to-knee is dirty and dangerous, and getting elbows up to the head is too. Slew-footing is tripping a person by pushing their feet out from under them from behind, and is very dangerous because it causes the person to hit either their tailbone or the back of their head. That is why slew-footing a guy is a good way to start a fight.
Cross-checks happen all of the time, epecially along the boards and in front of the net, and are technically a penalty, but many are not called. It often depends on whether it affected the play, and how vicious the cross-check was. Sometimes it is just done to push a player out of the slot area or just to irritate them and take them off of their game. Other times it can be dangerous, especially when they find the soft spot between the hockey pants and the shoulder pads.
Yeah, yeah. I know. tl;dr
That was helpful.
A follow-up question: Can you hit the goalie if he's come out of the...blue square thing...and has the puck?
No. Don't hit a goalie. One, you will start a big fight, and two, you will get a penalty. Goalies are kind of like kickers in football. They are often in vulnerable positions, so they get extra protection. If he is behind the goal and playing the puck, you can try to make a stick check on his stick, but a body check is a no-no. If the puck is free after the goalie makes a save, and the whistle hasn't blown, feel free to try and take a whack at it or poke it home, but also expect to receive a face-wash or a cross-check from a defenseman for doing so.
You are not allowed to make contact with a goalie under your own power. Goalies are not fair game. The only time you can make contact with a goalie is if the other team pushes you into him.
Many hockey novice fans consider the severity or degree of the hit as making it clean or dirty. For example, if an offensive player is looking down at the puck, instead of keeping his head up, he is considered fair game. Many also consider open ice hits, not along the boards as dirty. Hockey players expect to be hit and are taught to protect themselves from pee-wee hockey on up. Head shots, high elbows, and hits to the knees are dirty in almost any circumstance. Youtube "Konstantinov bodychecks" for some great checking highlights.
This is almost exactly what I was going to say. If a player is going to keep his head down while skating up ice with the puck he is just a concussion waiting to happen. This was basically what killed Lindros's career. Also don't forget about hip checks. Hip checks is just where it almost looks like the guy is ducking down, but in reality he is taking his hip and basically clipping the guy with the puck. It is completely legal and really utilized in the pros. Also as you stated keeping those hands and elbows down is crucial to have a clean hit and also never leaving your feet. That's usually the big gripe about Kronwall's big hits for the Wing's. People always think that he jumps and leaves his feet when he hits people, but IMO if you watch carefully at his highlight reel hits, he really just has perfect timing and delivers a shoulder or his backside into the opposing player and when it is combined with the opposing players speed and the of Kronwall it usually leads into a huge hit.
are knee to knee hits (Ulf Samuelson on Cam Neely being a famous one) or slewfooting, where you kick a guys legs out from under him.
Refs will often look for an intent to injure, or an intent to interfere with a guy playing the puck (should be called more) in addition to having high elbows.
Hitting from behind is a dangeous situation as well. You are supposed to be in front or side of the guy, much like a punt return in football with blocking in the back.
- Boarding: This is a very subjective penalty, basically used to control violent hits along the boards. The intent of a check should be "to separate a player from the puck", a boarding penalty is usually called when the intent turns to violence along the boards.
- Charging: A player cannot a) take more than "two fast strides" before delivering a check to an opponent or b) cannot leave his feet before making a hit.
- Checking from behind: A player cannot hit another from behind, a little leeway is given for players who turn into a hit.
- Cross checking: A player cannot hit another player with his stick with both hands on the stick.
- Elbowing: Don't lead with an elbow.
- Headbutting: You won't ever see headbutting, but don't do it.
- Head contact: Anything above a players collarbones are not fair game (there is a little controversy about hits between a 6'5 player and a 5'11 player delivered with the shoulder, so that gets called based on the league/level or individual referee).
- Interference: The guy needs to have the puck before it's a legal hit.
Other than that, go for it. If it's not covered here, I'm 99.9% sure it's a legal check.
Edit 2: Didn't finish reading your whole OP. If I had to list the dirtiest hits it would be 1) between the numbers a few feet off the boards. 2) You can put your skate in front of another players and make it perpendicular while shoving another player into the boards; that's not good. 3) Anything on a goalie. 4) Pushing up through a players chin violently. 5) Leading with a knee, head, skate or something.
It's a definite fine line.
To me, a clean hit is a strong shoulder, forearm or hip to the opponents chest, shoulder or hip.
A dirty hit, is any attempt to blow to the head, hitting knee to knee, hitting from behind (TWSS), using an elbow, leaving your feet or taking more than 5 hard strides to hit an opponent.
The toughest hit that I believe isn't dirty but other think is, goes to the leaving your feet one. I see some great hits that cause a player to become elevated after the hit due to pure physics. It's a fine line between actually leaping at a player. To me, that's the toughest one to judge.
Good practical definition, but 5 hard strides may be too many. The rule is no more than 2 quick/hard steps -- not always enforced -- but the rule's there to limit the bodychecker's acceleration.
Strides are so tough to determine. That may be the rule but in order for charging to really be enforced, I believe it has to be pretty apparent and 5 strides is usually what it will take to call a charge.
Five hard strides is going to be an easy charging call almost every time. Three into the boards or three with a bit of a glide are the tougher ones to call, IMO.
Dirty hit: When a guy on the other team belts one of your guys and leaves him in pain on the ice.
Clean hit: When one of your guys belts a guy on the other team and leaves him in pain on the ice.
For example: Leaving your feet is a no-no, but when one of your guys does it, it was the impact that caused him to leave his feet. When the other guy does it, he basically launched his elbow into your guy's head.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kou0p5oI4Xk&feature=related
If you do Exhibit A