OT - Game of Thrones Season 4 Finale
A dragon is not a slave . . .
I can't believe it's already ending. It goes by too fast!
I didn't think much of it at the time (other than mentally noting it was a first), but I think the fade to white to end last night's episode was significant. I'm not a book reader (well, past the show at least), but I have gleaned that Jon Snow is kinda important, yo. All other endings to episodes have been cuts/fades to black. But with Jon Snow taking on his leadership role, we fade to white. Nice touch methinks.
I'm not sure how the many promos can say this will top the red wedding. I'll admit, I've read all the books, and unless they deviate completely from the books, I just don't see this season finale being "over the top". Prove me wrong HBO. But I'm betting it's all just hype to get more people to watch. However, I will say, it will be "interesting".
Don't watch the show, but read all the books, and they could decide to just go full porn on a sex scene instead of that soft core crap HBO usually does. That would too the Red Wedding.
I am watching the finale of season two right now and think the first two seasons have been pretty good. I have to admit that I was expecting much more with all of the buzz that the show has created. Does it get better over the next two seasons or is it more of the same?
Season 4 is the best one yet. Season 3 is good as well. I will say Season 3 does have the best Episode 9 though.
The skeleton people are dumb. I wish they hadn't happened.
They've changed quite a bit on that story line from the books. In the books, they meet up with Mr. Cold Hands, the white walker that takes the baby and he can talk and is nice, and leads them to the cave as white walkers are about to kill them all, not skeletons popping out of the ground. Everyone thinks he might be Ned Starks brother from the wall turned white walker. Could be, who knows. Also I think Jojen lives. Them 4 also never went to Cruster's Keep. That was all made up. So again, they changed it quite a bit. In the end, they ended up where they're supposed to be, the cave.
You're being a douchebag, just fyi.
I disagree. He's spoiling it for people that have yet to read the books that watch the show. And since the books have been out for so long - who the fuck cares?
In terms of spoiling the show - it's not like they can go back in time and have cold hands walk them to the three eyed raven. It's happened. He's just simply noting the variance from the novels. Like people have been doing the last three weeks, ever since Crastor's keep.
So you know for sure that Coldhands isn't going to be a future character in the show?
No, I didn't say that at all.
But why get all uppity about events in the past - both in the book and the show? People noting "oh this was different here" aren't spoiling shit.
And if the answer is "no", then by default he very well could have/did spoil something. It's pretty straight forward, really.
Since it seems you haven't read the books, I can tell you from being a book reader we don't know how his character is going to go in future books or show. He's a small character that pops up every now and then. I'm curious as the next person and wish he was in the novels more because his character is very interesting. I promise you I did not spoil anything. All I said was he was involved in the cave scene. I didn't explain the who, what, when, where, and why. The meat. I saw so many people commenting on not liking the skeletons, that I felt the comment was justified because I found it weird too and didn't get why they switched it for no reason.
And since the show is going in a different direction from the books, who knows how they will treat Cold Hands in the show. If they have inside information from Martin on where the story is going, the show has already spoiled a theme from the upcoming books. So we're all in the same boat.
Honestly didn't mean to tick anyone off. I thought comparing two scenes vs the book wasn't a big deal. We're talking 20 pages of 5000.
Twice. You're both still missing my point, or ignoring it.
"And since the books have been out for so long - who the fuck cares?"
So do you ruin classic movies for your friends when they haven't seen them due to the same attitude?
I care a little bit. I haven't started book 5 and, since the show is skipping ahead of the books, had no idea that's how it went down. Now I do. It's not the biggest deal in the world, but it would have been nice not to know right now.
this is all pure fan fiction and it is amazing.
best episode ever and we still have twenty minutes
I thoroughly enjoyed this season. And this episode was the best. I like how they lined up all the arcs and knocked it all out.
I loved the sword play. All well done.
I hated seeing Jojen Die but hey, it is what it is.
ps. I think the best part is how far the show has strayed from the books to the point where when Brienne and the hound were fighting I wasn't sure who would win or why.
Overall, great episode. But I'm irrationally pissed about the lack of certain scenes.
The one that I'm irritated with is Brienne and the Hound fighting. That never happens. The Hound is killed by others. I think it hurts the story and now Brienne knows Arya is alive. In the books, no one does from Westeros. I think that's what's so good about her character is the possibilities that we hope will arise with her character. If Bri tells people she is alive, it could destroy the Arya storyline. So I just don't get it.
Dude, STOP spoiling the books.
He's "spoiling" books that have been out for years and a TV show is being made about them that covers almost everything in them. I don't understand people who hate hearing about what's different in the books from the show since it's mostly the same. You already know the major plot points : Ned Stark dies, Joffrey gets poisoned, Rob's wedding does not end well. I understand not wanting future parts of the show spoiled and can respect that, but books that have been out for over a year is pushing it.
Yes, and it's common courtesy to not talk about them because some people are just now discovering the books and reading them because of the show.
I'm a quarter of the way through Storm of Swords, for example. It'd be nice if i go to a thread about the show and someone doesn't tell me that X is killed by Y in the books (which this posted did above).
I think that might have been, like, sarcasm dude!?
I think they left out the most important/shocking part. Alas, season 5 should be good.
Most important? That stuff gets like what... one chapter in the books? Most shocking? Oh yeah, no doubt.
...most important/shocking thing that's been left out?
The book and the show are officially two different animals at this point.
ehhhh...George RR has said they are using material from book 7...I assumed this means the King Beyond the Wall.
There are only five so far...
oops meant 6...ehhh...I am pissed about this ending. The showrunners wasted 10 minutes of scheduled run time.
And the show spoiled at least one book plotline tonight, maybe two but I'm not sure on that just yet. Not real happy about it. I think the show has gotten too wrapped up in shock value, and fighting scenes, which has greatly taken away from the story being told. Just my e-pinion, but I think the books are soo much better.
FUCK! They left out the cliffhanger of A Storm of Swords! I was hoping the Brotherhood would make an appearance...
Arya and the Hound
Tyrion and Tywin
Those were some really awesome scenes
The end result is the same though Arya is off to Braavos. I was disappointed they left out one of the best lines of the book when Tyrion met his father.
Also we're definitely getting closer the end of the books. Our friend GRRM needs to get cracking on a Winds of Winter.
That exchange between Tyrion and Jaime and Tyrion and Tywin is the best of the best in A Storm of Swords. Such a shame the producers left those out.
And of course, no LSH! Can't say I'm surprised. Will be interesting to see where the Brienne plot line is heading.
Other then her meeting Arya I think it will go the same place. I think that plot line will end up where people would like it.
1. Book people please be careful - I don't know what LSH is or whatever, but I'd like to find out on my own as I finish Storm of Swords this summer :)
2. I was verrry satisfied. I was hoping Brienne convinced Arya to come with her, but with that final scene I'm glad it didn't happen.
3. Tyrion! I actually expected him to die - someone "spoiled" to me earlier in the week that he dies and right up to the last second I expected something to go wrong. What a GREAT reveal with Tywin having Shae in his bed.
4. The adventures of Tyrion and Varys in the East! Can't wait!
5. I'm interested in what Stannis plans for now. Could we see the North rise again under Stannis? Methinks not with the Red Woman.
6. Skeletors... ehh, a little too fantasyish for me, but you knew it was going that surreal route, so not a big deal. I worry that what I love about GoT - the politics of the warring families - may have died with Tywin (and all the Starks prior and Lysa and Oberyn etc.). But I'm not against sci-fi/fantasy so I'll enjoy it regardless.
Very nice finish that tied up loose ends but still leaves us begging for more!
They did say that some scene in season 4 was the highest cost per second of any scene thus far. I'm guessing it's the skeletons.
As for politics, I wouldn't be too worried, there are always people looking to rise to power in King's Landing.
Might be the dragons in the catacombs. Lot of reflections and tough light to replicate down there.
I guess I just think we have seen scenes with the dragons that long before. Coordinating an action sequence with completely CGI enemies is not something that most shows have the budget for.
the one continuous moving/panning shot in Castle Black during the battle as Tarly rand to get Ghost. That shot must have lasted nearly a minute without a single visible cut and had constant action in every corner of the frame. It was an incredible shot from a technical standpoint, but it could have cost a huge amount of $$$.
MGoBender is right, the LSH thing is a pretty big spoiler and something you do not want to google. I have a feeling it could be spoiled by searching and not even clicking on any links. I was a little upset to see that in the OP myself once I figured it out. Just a heads up.
Yes. I want to second this recommendation, if you have not read the books:
DO NOT GOOGLE IT.
So I hope I'm not the only book reader who's scratching my head and thinking really hard about what or who is LSH.
An acronym for a character in a portion of Storm of Swords that was left out of the show.
Meh, if you are googling anything about the show you are begging for spoilers one way or the other unless there's a "no spoliers please" tag you can add to google searches that I'm not aware of.
But in this case, especially, it would be a pretty big shock for non-readers.
I dunno. I thought it was a pretty good episode but really felt like just a "middle of the season" episode. Personally I really liked the hound and am sad that he got killed. I also thought the skeletons were weirdly awkward to watch. Feels kind of like there is a lot left in the air. I did really enjoy tyrion's redemption kill of Shae and Tywinn dying on the crapper haha
Also we all wana see more of the dragons and now two are being chained and left to die underground? Nooooo
What do you mean? They got fed. Besides, since the progresssion from roasting goats to roasting little girls, they can't be left free.
Perhaps I saw that scene wrong but even though they had some food the look on Denaerys' face showed that she was leaving them there for good to die. And ya, they are obviously getting unruly but that doesn't mean I'm not gonna be upset that we didn't really get to see them unleash destruction yet
...children more or less in a catacomb so they didn't kill any more innocent kids. Of course she was upset. I didn't read books...but pretty sure we will get lots more dragons.
b/c they weren't the ones that have been wrecking havoc on the villagers...
But they will be when they get bigger, hence they get locked up.
King's Landing lost some star power tonight, but I'm definitely looking forward to Tyrion and Varys possibly sharing alot of screen time next season.
The Tyrion Lannister Revenge Tour is officially underway. I LOVED watching Shae get what she deserved.
It'll be great seeing Cersei's reaction at the beginning of next season. Tyrion, the object of her unadulterated hatred, has escaped death yet again. He's killed their father, the man who made their family what it is, and the one man who could really protect her from her own incompetence. And Jaime has shown where his true loyalties lie. There is no one left to protect her. Not to mention all the world hates a Lannister.
This season buried last season, IMO.
But yeah...leave the skeleton warriors to Ray Harryhausen, please.
I will say this -- now we're in Book 4...right? I'm not so sure that all of that will translate nicely to a television show. I wonder if they'll bleed in Book 5 a little, as they have kinda been doing all along in this series, taking bits and pieces from subsequent books.
with some specific characters. Books 4 and 5 are concurrent timeline-wise, but focus on different characters. You should be seeing events from both books next season, unless they entirely cut out characters from the show temporarily.
Well, one story line hasn't made it to the end of book 3 yet and another has already reached almost the end of book 5. I certainly love the show, but having read the books makes watching the show specific adaptations frustrating at times.
They just gave a middle finger to the boks and to leave out the jamie speech, i am just sad about it
Yeah but ACTION.
I agree with you.
the show is not the books... make peace with that fact.
I spent a couple hours after the show was over being really pissed about the changes, but now that I think about it more, I'm okay with just about all of them. Plus, leaving LSH to next season adds an extra umph of awesome in what might otherwise be seen as a "down season" (compared to this season's epicness).
The show is not the books. I understand that, and I'm pretty sure the OP understands that the show is going to differ slightly as well (at least I hope so at this point). But I don't think there is anything wrong with voicing his disapproval of a scene. I know that all the non-book-readers hate when book-readers talk about how things are different, but nothing was spoiled and there was no harm done.
Personally, I like coming here to look at the comments to see if others were as happy or sad about how the show plays out differently. I absolutely hated that last scene but it is what it is and the show needs to cut some things out because they have limited time. It's nice to know that other people are upset about the same things being omitted as me because that means that I am comprehending it correctly and am getting a true sense of what the characters are supposed to be like (I'm not a great reader). Maybe that's just me, I don't know.
Sometimes it seems that the producers are taking their freedom and spinning things out of spite for the book-readers. I mean, there's no reason to introduce Grey Worm's and that one girl's (name is escaping me) "love story" when you could be building important details that actually are happening. I love the time-saver of having Brienne and The Hound meet instead of all the in-between stuff, but then they leave out how The Hound and Arya were just let go at the gate to the Eyrie after announcing themselves. Some things just seem funny because the show writers are intent on changing the story but they don't seem up to par to fill in the missing parts.
tl;dr version- I'm not attacking you for your comment (and I actually think you've read the books), I just think it's funny that non-readers complain about book-readers disagreeing with how things shake out yet they themselves complain about things when it gets too "fantasy" (skeletons, whitewalkers, wights, etc.). We understand that they are not going to be identical, but it would be nice if they included what most book-readers thought was important.
I actually think the producers are trolling the book readers in an attempt to keep the show interesting to those of us who have read the books. I think that the Jojen death last night is a great example of that as it kills a fairly prevalent theory later in the series...
I also think that when you let go of your book formed view of westeros the show becomes much more interesting... but hey, whatever works for you.
I'm a book reader who loved the episode and completely understand the changes. The problem I have with fellow book readers complaining about changes is that they often neglect that the changes are necesary because of the change in medium. Tysha is important to Tyrion's inner dialouge within the book, something that is practically impossible to show in a television series. If she was brought into the picture it would have only been out of fan service to book readers and wouldn't have made narrative sense within the structure of the series. She's hasn't been mentioned since the first season and there wasn't really any other time it would have made sense to bring it back up. They adjusted Shae's character to make her more important to Tyrion to make up for the lack of inner dialouge without Tysha. I understand that it can be frustrating to have things be different than the books that you love but that's why it's called an adaptation.
Great episode. I hate that one of my 180 degree characters, one that I hated then liked, is left for dead and his brother the Mountain is still holding on. With Tywin's death, Kings Landing is ripe for the taking. Shae the dead whore.
Did you know that Shae was a whore in real life as well? Was a european "film" actress before she did GoT.
Out of all the character that died, probably hated to see the Hound go the most. But then again, we didn't actually see him die... Everyone thought his bro died last week. Here's hoping for another miracle and the hound comes back and gets his revenge on his bro.
The next time Tyrion and Jamie meet is going to be fascinating. Clearly "oh and please kill dad on your way out of town" wasn't supposed to be part of Tyrion's escape itinerary. A major aspect of Jamie's motivation for saving Tyrion was to ensure everyone with Lannister blood can keep it pumping.
Not only that, but Jamie's life is about to get way harder. Not only is Kings Landing and the Lannister name weakened by Tywin's death, but it now seems exceptionally likely that the Iron Bank--sensing the ever lower odds that the Lannister's can pay their debts--is about to insert itself opposite the Lannister's in ways more Machiavellian than perhaps any other agent of the game.
I'm left very fascinated (well, more so) with Tywin's character.
Has he always had whores in his bed? Was this a "first" or "one-time" instance or the result of winning over Shae's testimony? Or the result of getting the middle finger from Cersei?
In the end it's tragic. When Tywin was saying "Do you really think I'd let a Lannister die?" I actually believed him*. I wanted Tyrion to let him live and let everything work out. Who knows - maybe he accepted the incest and realized Tyrion was his only chance at furthering his line? Maybe he realized how fucked up his family was and that Tyrion was actually the one who lived the most honorably. Maybe he really was going to find a way to let him live.
But, then there's Shae the dead whore.
Totally fascinating character that I'm left wanting to know more about. Hopefully as I finish reading Storm of Swords I will, but if not then that's cool too. Just a great story/character.
*Charles Dance, btw, was awesome. I'd love to see him get a supporting actor emmy nom.
Always. Dude always has whores. Well, he did.
What annoys me about the show is that they basically do the exact storyline line from the books but then change it for the worse. Example. I see several people on this thread comment about not liking the skeletons. Well in the books it's white walkers chasing them. Why the change to skeletons? It's weird and unnecessary. Plus I think those that didn't like the skeletons would have loved a group of white walkers chasing the 4 down. So I don't get some of the decisions being made. And as I know what's to come, I always say to myself, how will that change lead to x? Sometimes it's hard to see and I think detracts from the books. But yes, I know the show can't be exact. But I wish it would!
I kind of wish there could have been a LSH brief cameo. Not so much a reveal as more a brief appearance of a hooded figure or something. Overall decent episode, but the creators hyped to be there best yet and that is just not true.
8.5 / 10
I saw the first four seasons of the show and mid-way through this season purchased the first five books.
I am thinking about starting with the third book (which covers season three and four) and skipping the first two books for now. Would I be missing some things (sub-plots not in the show that started in the first two books) in the third, fourth, and fifth books if I skipped the first two books? I still remember, relatively well, what happened in the first three seasons, which I have been told keep relatively close to the books. I am mainly trying to be lazy and skip the first two books, for now, but also do not want to miss anything significant that may not have been covered in the show.
Appreciate your thoughts...............
I was in a similar situation to you in the past. I thought about starting in on the books where the show left off. Ended up started reading from the very beginning.
You pick up a LOT of extra detail that isn't in the shows. You should start from the first book. There is a lot of time before next season starts...
Book 1 and the first season are pretty close to being right on. But starting book 2 and season 2, they deviate story lines. They're not super drastic since they always end up where they need to be but I'm actually annoyed with some of the shortcuts they've made or having characters do one thing in the show that never happen in the book. I think you'll be missing some story lines if you go directly to book 3. Plus they never truly go in depth with some of the dialogue in the major scenes. It's talked about a lot here. The books give it that much more umph. Just my 2 cents.