Title says it all
OT- Game of Thrones EPISODE 9: The Watchers on the Wall
Best hour of the week!
Spoiler Alert: Marty Mcfly shows up in a De Lorean and stops the beheading of Ned Stark. Stark becomes King.
But what happens when Tywin gets his hands on the sports almanac?
Sorry, I've spoken too much already.
No book spoilers.
Someone gon' get eaten.
Why is this crap in a sports forum?!
Time to permaban OPs!
It's the offseason, pal. Not much is going on now anyway. And GoT threads have been going on for quite a while on this blog. If the mods didn't like them, they would've been taken down by now.
You're right. Make another post debating the over/under on the amount of wins Michigan will have next year.
Relax, relate and release
All men must complain
...because your contributions that Northwestern is NU not NW are far more exciting. Please start a new thread.
You know nothing, DrueDown
Before the thread gets into spoiler territory: I have a question for the people who read the books as well as watch the show.
I started reading last summer, and get through Game of Thrones and Clash of Kings. I just started A Storm of Swords. I started watching the first season after finishing the first book, but I decided I would rather continue reading the story than watch what I had just read. Now I'm getting a little bit bored with reading (I love the books, it's just a lot to get through). Also I've read and heard the quality of books 4-5 isn't quite up to the standard of the first three. Should I force myself to finish reading all the books before starting to watch the series, or can I start watching seasons 1-3 after reading books 1-3?
Obviously, please avoid major spoilers. I know some things that it was unavoidable to miss, but there is still enough of a mystery that reading is enjoyable. Thanks!
I would finish storm of swords. Absolutely fantastic in my opinion. I'm not a show watcher so I can't comment on any sort of comparison between the two, but if you have read the first two I highly recommend finishing the third.
Fourth is indeed bit of a slog, fifth I thought was pretty solid, not as good as 1-3 but still worth reading. If you are looking for a book cutoff point, though, end of third is definitely it.
Feast is the best one, thematically. Though the batshit insanity meter is considerably lower than Storm.
Yeah, I have to agree. From a literature aspect, I think AFFC is probably the best written book in the series (Septon Meribald's section are amazing). However, because George RR Martin split up the characters between Feast and ADWD, so AFFC is missing several main characters, so it tends to go a bit slower.
If you're a new reader and really concerned with how the book may get, you can use THIS website's combined chapter order for AFFC and ADWD (the two books take place during the same chronological time), so you can read all the POVs (instead of reading half the people in AFFC, and the other half in ADWD)
Read the first three books, then work on reading the others as you watch the show. The 3rd book is killer.
Read the books and watch the show. But don't do both simultaneously. Either commit to reading and finish the books, or watch the show and hold off on the books. I find it is hard to distinguish between what happens in the books only, and what happens in the show only, even having read the books entirely separate of the show. I imagine that problem would only become worse if you do both simultaneously.
As far as books 4-5. Most of the people that say that they are lower in quality are coming from the standpoint of having to wait 10 years to continue the storyline of their favorite characters. Books 4/5 are mostly concurrent timeline wise, but focus on different characters. As such, there are bound to be some haters. However, I think I can point you to a "combined" reading where you switch between books 4 and 5 while still going chronologically through events, if you are interested in that.
In short, do both, but devote appropriate separate time to each.
Definately read if you've already started. You miss details, some bigger than others, when you only watch the show. The show sometimes glosses over what the books go into detail about and also necessarily omits some material. The show also details what the books only discuss through third parties. At that point it feels as if the show is offering 'extra' content if you've already read.
While most point to book 4 as the weakest of the series, it is likely due to the fact that some of the most important characters are absent. The fifth book has become Martin's best work in my opinion. It is the most intelligent book in the series offering the most compelling character development and moral challenges. However, this was not apparent on the first read due to the sheer size of the book.
I was actually a little disappointed immediately after book five and it wasn't until closer examination and rereads that I realized how much GRRM had grown since the first few books. I actually consider, between books, reading if for a third time. Its that dense that it continues to reward me. Of course there are a series of essays that I attribute to my greater understanding.
They are located here:
(MAJOR BOOK 5 SPOILERS!! DO NOT CLICK THE FOLLOWING LINK UNLESS YOU WANT BOOK 5 TO BE SPOILED) fair warning
start on Dany's essays
See to me book four and five is where the series starts to unravel. He can't stop himself from reaching into multiple irrelevant storylines and exploring them and it feels like he's lost control. Kind of like how the middle of Robert Jordan's series played out, I just hope it doesn't take him dying to finally get the series moving again.
theres going to be eight books now, so in my mind he'll definitely be dead by than.
I think that a lot of the seemingly irrelevant storylines are more relevant than it appears on initial reading and/or going to become a lot more relevant over the remainder of the books.
A lot of the criticisms I've heard from others are sort of similar to my own feelings the first time through, but it's amazing even what a trip through the forums at westeros.org or a listen to a good podcast will do for making everything fit together. Honestly, I was a little angry with myself for missing as much as I did the first time I read them once I heard all the nuggets of information that other readers had caught that I'd missed.
I still understand the frustration with the book splitting and the omission of key characters from AFFC, but other than that it was a much better book the second time through.
NOTE: Am killing myself to discuss issues with the books and avoid spoilers, but if I inadvertently let something slip I apologize,
I get that some people love the deeper exploration of the world and that when you have years between books it's easy to dive into the details, but there are a ton of storylines that to me are just dumb and I think ways of extracting himself from a couple of corners he wrote himself into. I could have cared less about missing out on people in book four if I didn't have to waste my time reading about someone on a horse riding through the countryside so George RR could eventually have his Vietnam war protestor "America has turned against it's ideals" Soapbox moment, or a ton of other people who have storylines that can be addressed off-screen and through updates to the Throne from the Council, or to Danaerys via Ser Barristan. There's just too much that didn't need to be shown and a lot of times I thought I was reading all about Perrin's search for Faile again(something that I think was an easy way for Jordan to keep writing through viscous writer's block). I think the same things happening to Martin, he's got writer's block and so writes about something to at least re-prime the pump and then can't bear to part with it.
Given that Martin has reportedly discussed the final plot with others, I'm wondering if he is thinking of passing the writing torch to someone else.
From Martin's perspective, that might make sense. It would allow him to relax and enjoy the rest of his life, and it would allow him to collect a portion of royalties on work he's not writing.
I guess I can't speak to how well written they are, but it really enjoyed the fourth book. The look into Dorne was awesome IMO. I thought the fifth book was terrible, though. Currently I'm going through the books again so maybe I will enjoy it more the second time. But I had a hard time getting through it. Just seemed really boring and like several characters were just treading water. On the bright side the sixth book must cover a lot of ground to set up the finale.
Well.. two things... first of all, some people haven't read the first books in over a decade... so there's value in rereading. Secondly, I don't know about other people, but myself, when I read something a second time, I use an rsvp reader. It increases the wpm I'm able to read by a lot. Second readings usually take less than half the time of the first reading for me.
You must have a lot of free time too.
I am somewhat in the same position as you, just about a year ahead of you. I decided to start reading while the series is going and I don't regret it. Whatever course of action you decide, you should do what other posters have already said and finish book 3 regardless. It's still fresh in your mind and, unless you want to start a massive book over again, you'll forget little details that you've already read. I've done this plenty of times and I read it somewhat regularly. Plus, if I remember correctly, the show really starts to deviate from the last half of ASOS and it's really interesting to compare while it's fresh in your mind.
I started reading about midway through season 2 and am about 100 pages from finishing AFFC. In my opinion, I liked being behind the books because it was much more enjoyable for me to have a scene in mind while I read it and think "that's what really happened"... as opposed to now when I watch the show all I can think of is "that's not right, the book does a way better job of explaning and has so much more detail." With that being said, I don't think it's ruining either experience for me.
I will say that AFFC and has been mildly disappointing, but I'm not sure if that has to do with the way I read and watched them or because I don't like the characters as much. To me(a very casual reader) it's a bit slow and seems like it's plodding along. I do get a sense that all of these events are leading up to something, but I just haven't reached it and it's not as engaging as the first 3 books.
tl; dr version: I'm not sure it matters, just make sure to finish ASOS because it's really well written and gives fine details and betters the events.
Should I force myself to finish reading all the books before starting to watch the series, or can I start watching seasons 1-3 after reading books 1-3?
That is entirely up to you. As a book reader, I am VERY happy with the adaption fo the books to screen, and now is as good of a time as ever to start watching the show if they are indeed going to streamline the bloated fourth and fifth books (which desperately needed it, IMO).
Probably don't need to note this but, my friend has not read the books and loves the show. He binge watched the whole series in 3 days a few weeks ago.
Shit is probably gonna be real real next week
IMO: That was the worst (seasonal) penultimate episode of the series yet. Instead of being the Wall's version of Blackwater, it felt like I was just watching the end of LOTR: The Two Towers again.
They had opportunities to extend the fight to earlier in the season, but did not. Instead, they are extending it towards the end. Didn't feel quite as fulfilling, even though we did get a "win" with the NW holding off for one night at least.
Thought this was better than battle of black water. Longer action, brought a ton of characters to life who were kind of flailing, and pretty awesome coordinated fighting - which black water lacked.
Saying its the worst 9th episode in GOT is like saying you're the worst Heisman winner from Michigan. Even if you are, you're still a REALLY DAMN GOOD football player. That being said, I think I liked this one more than I liked Blackwater—more emotional moments, some amazing actions, Grenn's last stand was incredible. It's close though. But when the competition is Baelor (Neds Death), Blackwater, and The Rains of Castamere (Red Wedding), even if its worse than those, its still an amazing hour of television.
Right and that's why I phrased it as such- the penultimate episodes have historically, IMO, been the very best. Hence, with those elevated expectations, I found it to be disappointing. It was, to me, an hour long battle who've I've basically already seen in LOTR. Just my opinion, but as an Ep 9 it felt lacking.
*which (who've makes no sense)
Fair enough. But FWIW intrigue wise, the 10th episode will be the "Big" episode of this season. No spoilers, but my money says it'll be the best episode yet.
I agree that the episode was a little bit of a let down, for the simple fact that it was so anticlimactic, and I have never been a fan of the goings on at the wall. The wall stuff is always the worst part of this show, and Jon Snow is such a bore. With that being said, the ep had great action and some eic moments, and like someone said, the worst GOT episode is still better than 95 percent of anything else on TV. The finale should be great though. I wish it was 2 hours. With so much about to go down, I hope it doesn't feel rushed.
Was nothing short of a big letdown.
I'm glad they are finally giving Jon some more material to work with. That said, I think I will agree with some other commenters and say that it's not as good as I feel it could have been. It did feel like we were watching the siege of helm's deep or minas tirith instead of the conglomeration of events leading up to this moment in this series.
I'm still glad I watched it, and there were some awesome sequences (breaking the wall to fall on the climbers was pretty epic). I'm anxiously looking forward to next week.
It's cable tv, not fair to compare it to a feature film. I thought it was incredible for tv.
Just saying that, I felt I wasn't quite in westeros at times when they were showing it. I'm as big a fan of the show as anyone. Just saying that I was looking for a little more from the episode. It was indeed incredible as far as action goes for TV, I don't think there's a comparison. Therefore why I can only liken it to a hit movie trilogy in terms of action.
The giants shooting the bow and arrow and flinging the crow over to the other side was not In the books and was a bit (err a lot) like lotr. I can't recall the hero arc for Jon snow going like it did (huge book departures there) or the giant anchor either but it was seemingly some gratuitous Peter Jackson editorial flare there...but I am the kind that likes that sort of thing so long as it doesn't overwhelm.
I wanna see what's in store for Tyrion. Stannis has faded into the background. He got his loan from the Iron Bank, then nothing. Did Ghost survive?
There is so much that needs to be wrapped up in next week's episode! My expectations are as high as ever. These are some of my favorite story lines in the books all culminating together.
I am worried that there won't be enough time. I would rather some things (King's Landing, anyone?) slip into next season than to have them rush through it in episode 10.
Given the theme of the previews for this season, I think Arya's story will move along for sure. They've also spent a good amount of time setting up the next part of Tyrion's story -- it would make sense to get through that now, in my view.
I suppose they could do both if they leave the battle in a cliffhanger. Even at the point it is right now... [EDIT: Scratch that, with the 66 minutes, they will certainly finish the battle -- LoTR has shown how quickly you can wrap up a battle after the tide has turned. So it will happen. I still think there's time to do the other two, and maybe also move Bran one step further long.]
I thought it was pretty good, but I haven't read that far into the books so I didn't have any preconceptions about it.
continuous action sequence we've had in the show by far. What springs to mind is the 360 single shot sequence. I actually really liked that. I guess it just feels that it didn't make it as far as even the most likely similarity (SE2E09). In that one, they were able to get all the way to what felt more like a resolution. But that was more of a short, intense battle. This seems to be playing out more like a longer siege, something that we haven't seen yet.
I can't wait for Dany to unleash the dragons. Sick of these teasers.
Great episode. I loved it even if it took a bit to long to get here.
Very entertaining action episode. Really loved the 360 action shot, the huge blade that swiped across the wall, seeing Jon stick a hammer in the cannibal's head, and did the old blind man (forgot his name) say he was a targaryen? Not sure if I missed that in a previous episode but if so I thought that was kinda cool to learn
He tells that to Jon in either the end of the first season or early second season
Really enjoyed that and thought it was exciting as hell with some great moments. Sad that they killed Grenn and Pip.
Grenn and the other brothers saying they're vows right before the Giant came at them might have been one of my favorite scenes so far in the show.
Thought that was powerful stuff and well acted/ constructed.
It's always nice to see a GoT episode stretch out a little bit -- with lot of characters, it is forced to have a lot of (sometimes very choppy) short scenes. Sometimes we get scenes that play out a little longer than most -- for instance, Joff's wedding this season.
But this one? Wow. Talk about stretching out. Yes, this was the annual " big budget" episode of GoT, and well worth it. I loved it.
Actually IIRC they said that the next episode will have the highest budget scene yet in the series. So that should be pretty awesome to watch.
I hadn't heard that. Good to know! I guess, yeah, the guys have a little more money to play with now than they did in previous seasons.
Anyone have a link to the episode?
Did anyone else come away like I did feeling that was one of the dullest episodes in a long time? I mean, yeah; cool action. But without anything else it just got a little repetitive and boring for me at least.
40 minutes of non-stop action will never make for great viewing, it's simply not possible.
Glad they did not cut away....thought it was pretty brilliant for a tv show.
I thought it was great. The scrolling camera work inside the castle was amazing. It reminded me of true detective , when Cole went under cover and started that riot.
I mean can they take the story telling, quality acting and special effects down a little?
I mean can they take the story telling, quality acting and special effects down a little?
EDIT: Sounds even better the second time.
After previous episode 9s, Neds Dead-Blackwater-Red Wedding, I thought this would be insane. Good episode but not a jaw dropper.
I liked the giant archer and the poor schmuck who caught it. I also liked hearing the idiot leader admit to Snow he was wrong. I wonder what happens to the coward who locked himself in with Gilly. Sad that this season is almost over and we'll have to wait another year to see more.
be very long indeed.
to not show grenn and crew slay the giant. Of all the expenses to spare, why choose that one?
I must have said "what the hell happened to the giant?!" five times before they got around to showing it. I chuckled for a moment at the thought of the giant making it through and hiding for some sort of sneak attack.
As a book reader, I have to say that this has been the best season so far, but I can't see how they can possibly reach the end of book 3 with only one episode remaining and that just pisses me off.
Well you've known from the start what the big reveal will be at the end of this series (Hint: a major character DIES OH NO!)
And with all the night's watch politics removed already, the resolution at the wall shouldn't take too much screen time to wrap up (Spoiler: a major extinct mammal DIES OH NO!)
Aria is like one scene away from where she's left at the end of that book (Spoiler: a major plotline DIES OH NO!)
Sansa's storyline in this book is wrapped up already. So is Dany's. The reaction to Oberon's death won't be felt until next book/season.
And nobody cares about the Greyjoy-Bolton storyline.
What more do they need to cover?
This post is a little over the top / spoiler unfriendly to someone who HAS read the books and knows EXACTLY what you are talking about.
I agree with the other guy, too. Even if it's just the three things you mention above (and it's not, Bran's storyline progresses significantly TOO) - that's a lot that needs to happen in 50-55 minutes of action time.
That post by Seth was unnecessary, there were two pretty big spoilers on there (I actually thought the mammoth reference was funny). The strange thing is, the whole thread actually did a pretty decent job of keeping spoiler-free (not many do). Kind of weird that it was a mod/employee that did the most damage.
I do think that one or two of the events that we as bookreaders are expecting to happen will not happen until next season. One reason I think that is because I don't think they have enough time to do everything well enough in one episode. Another reason is that book 4 offers less action than the previous books, and they'll need to spread out certain events to keep the non-readers interested. They could very well end book 3 with the next episode, but in my mind that would be a travesty because everything will feel incredibly rushed.
If you are a Game of Thrones TV watcher and don't expect at least one major character to be killed off in a season finale...
Have you read the books then? I remember you trashing them pretty badly a year or two ago, when you said that you hadn't made it through the first book.
BTW, why the spoiler hints?
This guy might be sad to hear that nobody cares about that storyline:
Fwiw-next week will be the longest episode to date. 66 minutes
That just brightened my evening!
"Grenns... I fucking hate Grenns" -Giant.
/play on thenns
Or is anyone else glad Ygritte is dead?
Everyone at the wall and wildlings could die aand I wouldn't be upset at all. While I liked the episode, I came into it really hoping to start to care about this whole storyline at the wall. Unfortunately, the episode, while having some seriously bad ass stuff happen, ultimately felt too anticlimactic and unemotional, and I still don't care about anyone at the wall. Sorry Jon Snow, you are a bore.
I actually enjoyed her character and was intrigued about how that would eventually play out with Snow, although it did feel a little anticlamictic last night. I think I would've preferred the book version of that part
I was in the Jon Snow *yawn* camp for a while, but I've enjoyed seeing the transformation into a leader. I really enjoyed it last night - I loved that he was a colossal dick to Sam and basically was like "fuck your feelings, my direwolf is more important than you".
While I'm behind in the books, I know that Jon Snow is important (obvs) and there's all the hints in the world that him (and his parentage) will be important not just now but down the line as well.
And that chain/anchor swinging across the wall? Epic. Genius.
I know there are comparisons to Helm's Deep - visually it felt like that - but I'm surprised some people are using that comparison as a negative reason for disliking it. That they pulled off something comprable to Helm's Deep on a TV budget is amazing.
Now I hope that prick Janos Slynt is gutted.
IMO, the show didn't do Jon Snow any justice. I always really enjoyed his chapters in the books, but his show scenes were always kind of dull and lacked something. It seemed like most of his scenes were "fillers" instead of showing what a real emotional rollercoaster he has ridden his entire life. I did like his last moment with Ygritte on the show, I'm glad they put that part in.
It's interesting to see the dichotomy from the books and show. In the book, I started off hating Jaime and then grew to really like and respect him during his journey with Brienne. I was behind in the books at that point and when I caught up I realized how much I really enjoyed his chapters. Then they showed him rape Cercei and I realized that the show will never do his character, or others, justice because they want ratings. It's like watching the same movie done by Quentin Tarantino and Jerry Bruckheimer separately. One will go for the huge ratings and big action scenes while the other will dazzle you with developing characters and taking his time to produce a quality film.
I disagree with the ratings bit.
1. Jaime's rape of Cersei in the show definitely does not help ratings one iota. In fact, it likely hurt them.
2. HBO has given Weiss and Benioff complete artistic freedom, from what I've gleaned from every interview I've seen.
3. It is the characters and the politics - not big action scenes - that have built the ratings over the course of 4 years. Just as in the books, many battles are only referred to and not shown. This season's example: The sacking of Mereen.
I'm OK with that. Perhaps "ratings" wasn't the best word because I honestly don't ever look up any ratings on the show, I just know that the show is popular.
1. I think the rape shows HBOs willingness to push the limits and boundaries, therefore keeping viewers glued because they aren't sure what they will do next. Although disgusting, rape catches people's attention. I cannot offer another reason that they would deviate and include this in the TV show.
2. Agree, and in some cases I'm glad they do.
3. I wasn't trying to say that the action scenes were what drew people to the show. I was only trying to offer the difference that two viewpoints will take to express the same story, and in doing so I used two different directors based off of their history of films. Perhaps I used a poor example. I do agree that the characters and politics are a huge draw, but a small part of it is also HBOs willingness to push the limits and display graphic and grotesque scenes. The show would lose a lot of appeal if it were on, say, ABC.
"[Jon Snow's] show scenes were always kind of dull and lacked something."
That's because the actor they cast is terrible. I'm sorry, but Kit Harington as Jon is like Keanu Reeves as Aragorn.
Terrible is extreme, though I'd admit that compraed to the other amazing casting selections, Kit Harrington may not quite have the big-time chops.
I actually think this is a bit of a result of the aging-up of the characters for the TV series. What is Jon Snow in the books? 13? His emotions/reactions/attitudes would fit right in for a 13-year old. Even a 16-18 year old.
However, as a 20-something, his character comes off as too immature, too naive (the sex-talk with Sam was cringeworthy) and too moody.
I wonder if they'd reconsider the TV-approach to his character if Benioff and Weiss did it all over again. Perhaps exchange that moodiness with some of Dany's rebelliousness/arrogance? I don't know, it's a tough call. I do, however, find myself liking Jon Snow more now that we've moved on from that moody stuff.
I don't think terrible is extreme. Jon is arguably the main character of the whole drama, and his character is supposed to be mysterious and complex, young but betraying secret wisdoms and demons. He is dark and brooding, yet perceptive, compassionate, and quick-witted.
I get tired of looking into Kit Harington's vapid eyes where there should be untold intrigue.
I would usually resere a word like "terrible" for the actor of Carl from the Walking Dead. Though I don't know if this is worth discussing since you seem rather set in your personal view.
I actually find Emilia Clarke to have the most flat acting performances in Game of Thrones.
Jon Snow as a character is supposd to be aloof and kind of a dick though.
I mean under the A Song of Ice and Fire Wiki his character traits are listed as "bitter," "solemn," "with a desire to prove himself," and "compassionate towards those he views as his fellow outcasts."
He isn't a very meaty character that would allow for an actor to display his acting chops, like Tyrion, Oberyn, or Cersei.
He might be the most important character in the series but that doesn't mean he's the most compelling. To this point they've basically stayed true to the fact that Jon is kind of a mopey teenager with a lot of angst. Last night's scene was really the beginning of his transformation into a man and a leader.
I'm not saying Kit Harrington is great or anything, but he hasn't been given a lot to work with at this point.
It's sort of the same deal with Sansa and the actress who plays her. To this point Sansa has basically been a one note character, and it wasn't until episode 8 of this season that she was really given an opportunity to challenge herself and she crushed it.
is all about "kill the boy and let the man be born" within him. Rob and him were of the same age, but jon always had a complex from living under his shadow. I think he grows into a more robust character as the series progresses.
What is Jon Snow in the books? 13?
14 in the beginning, 15 by this point. Though GRRM has said he wished some of his younger characters were a little older and we're coming up on the point where he intended to have a five-year gap in the story to age his child characters up some, but decided he didn't think it was plausible that everything would just freeze for five years.
I think jon Snow will end up being the single most important character in the show.
There are way too many Chekov's Gun type of things surrounding him.
First of all there is the whole mysterious promise that Ned made to his sister, Lyanna, who had supposedly been kidnapped by Rhaegar Targaryen, which was the event that sparked Robert's Rebellion and led to basically everything that has happened since then.
When Ned finally reaches her she is on her death bed, though we don't know why she's dying, the speculation is that she had just given birth to Jon Snow, who is the bastard child of her and Rhaegar Targaryen. She makes Ned promise her something, though we don't know what that promise is, but Ned keeps it.
The promise could be to raise Jon Snow as his own son and to claim him as his bastard.
Why would Ned have to do this? Because had Robert and most of the rest of the realm were trying to wipe out all of the Targaryen children. People knowing Jon Snow was Rhaegar's son would have essentially been a death sentence for him, so Ned's love for Lyanna made him lie to everyone and claim he fathered a bastard child while at war in order to keep his promise to her.
It's mentioned a million times how totally outside of Ned's character it was to have cheated on his wife and fathered a bastard child. Even more strange is that Ned doesn't raise or treat him like a bastard, but rather, his own son.
Then there is the whole sub-plot with Robert having no true-born heirs, and they make this discovery based upon the hair color of the children. There is a quote but I forget it, it is essentially, "when coal meets gold, the coal wins out every time," referring to the black hair of the Baratheons and the golden hair of the Lannisters. The Starks all have dark hair, and the Targaryens all have platinum blonde hair.
There is also the entire thing with Maester Aemon being Aemon Targaryen. Aemon of course was offered the crown and passed it up to his younger brother, and took the black, joining the night's watch after their father, the previous king, died.
Also, the name of the books is "A Song of Ice and Fire." Lyanna, the she wolf from the north is ice, and Rhaegar, the blood of the dragon from the south, is fire.
QED, Jon, being the result of the union of those two, is the song of ice and fire.
Boom! Nailed it.
Or maybe I'm wrong about all of this and Jon and Dany are going to eventually hook up, meaning them joining forces creates ice and fire?
P.S. I am going to be so totally wrong when Jon gets eaten by a mammoth or something.
How far into book 3 has this season gone? I was under the impression that each season would be a half of a book maybe more.
Someone that pays better attention and has a better understanding of the books than I do will probably answer your question better, but for the most part season 4 is the last half of book 3. There are some things that season 4 has introduced that I'm not sure has been covered up to my reading (I'm almost done with book 4), but I'm not sure if that's the show going its separate way or if it's in book 5.
For the most part:
Season 1= book 1. Season 2= book 2. Season 3= first half of book 3. And season 4= last half of book 3.
"There are some things that season 4 has introduced that I'm not sure has been covered up to my reading"
That's because these things are all specific to the show and don't occur in the books.
That was my guess, but I appreciate the clarification.
Yes and no.
The stuff in the show with Brienne and Pod actually happen in book 4.
Plus all sorts of Theon stuff - some of which are just the show depicting what was happening during book 3 timeline-wise but that you don't read about til book 5, and some are actual events that take place during book 5.
Mostly second half of Storm of Swords.
Lots of good interviews with director Neil Marshall out there. Here's Rolling Stone's:
How did you do that big shot of Castle Black?
When I walked onto the Castle Black set for the very first time, I noticed that it's a 360-degree set. You walk into that courtyard and it's standing all around you. Immediately, I thought the best place to have it all to take place was the catwalks and steps — it's more interesting than just two guys in a flat courtyard. At some point the idea came to me of doing a 360-degree shot of the battle going on all around.
Slowly but surely, the idea to motivate the shot came to me. What was the point of the shot, other than to show off? I realized you had five major characters involved, and at this point you needed to know where they were and how they were all interrelating with each other. That gave birth to that shot in thematic terms. It very literally put you in the middle of it.
In practical terms, it was the first shot we did for that night. We set it up for about an hour, positioning everybody, practicing the camera moves. We got it on the seventh take. When I said we had it, we all gave each other a big round of applause. [Laughs]
No CGI? That was actually one single take?
It was one take. It was all the work of the ADs — and the stunt guys, for keeping out of the way of the camera. The camera was on the end of a crane arm and swinging around at high speed. It doesn't necessarily look it from the camera's point of view, but if the camera had hit someone in the head, it could have killed them — it was moving that fast. That was one of the worries. But nobody got killed by the camera, so that's good.
What about that scythe on the ice wall?
David [Benioff] and Dan [Weiss, the showrunners and writers] came up with that idea. I don't know how, but it certainly was a fun idea. [Laughs] When I came in, I wanted to make it as logical as possible, to design it so it would look scary and practical. There was discussion early on as to whether we needed it, but myself, David, and Dan really fought for it. It was a really cool idea to end [both] the episode and the attack.
While re watching I noticed he spit in the wildlings face to get the upper hand. Same thing was done to him at Crasta's keep.