Open Thread on Episode 4 of Season 3.
Please no book spoilers - I'd recommend/request you start a separate thread if you want to discuss the episode in relation to the books. Mucho gracias.
Nice open with Jaimie's hand hanging around his neck.
Things continue to get out of hand...
I expect a popular episode if what was written in the last open thread is true.
Random question about the last episode. Was the music supposed to start before they cut off his hand?
I'm pretty sure not. I don't think that a mistake like that would or even could be made.
If you watched it illegally online it did.
Arya is a billion times more badass. Though the show doesn't do a great job indicating this fact.
of all the Stark children she is the most like Ned.
A lot of critics early on liked to point and scream "look at the objectification of women" and "how can anyone celebrate a TV show that demeans women."
I doubt they'll eat crow and admit they're wrong, but in Arya Stark and Daenerys Stormborn Game of Thrones has probably two of the strongest female characters in televion/media right now.
Throw in Margary's super intelligence and I would say the Game of Thrones universe does a pretty awesome job presenting amazing female characters.
Most of the men are idiots. Unless they're dwarves or eunuchs. Ned was your "hero" but he was too dumb to play the game and lost his head for it. Besides, there's a fair amount of penis in there too. The only thing that's silly is the sexposition, and they seem to have gotten away from that.
Edit: I can figure if this was voted on by someone who hates dwarves, eunuchs, and/or penis, or someone who loves men, Ned, or sexposition.
Not a chance. Ned was a logical, humble, just, stoic leader who always told the truth regardless of how it affected him. Arya is a tempestuous, spontaneous, cold-hearted, survivalist who learns how to lie in order to manipulate people to reach ultimately-justified ends.
Robb is the most like Ned.
Jon Snow is the most like Ned. Ironic, isn't it?
but why would that be ironic? I could see if he was the most like Catelyn that would be ironic, but Ned is his father and he was raised by the man his entire life. I guess if he was raised by someone other than Ned and turned out just like him it could be ironic, but in this case I have to be honest...I don't see a lot of irony here. Just because he had a different mother doesn't make him any less Ned's.
based on certain implications from the novels that I will not go in to here to avoid spoilers. George RR Martin has never 100% spelled it out though, but there are some interesting theories floating around about Snow's parentage that I will be happy to discuss on Twitter but not here in a spoiler-free space.
EDIT: If you don't have Twitter or just want to read for your self, click here for what I was referring to. Warning - spoilers from the books ahead, don't click if you don't want spoilers.
Jon Snow's mother is a pretty prevalent plot line in Season One, so we're not totally in book only talk with that.
Though I would suggest nobody clicking that link if you are not a book reader. I made the mistake once of perusing A Song's Wiki just to try to get a little background info on a character (it might have even been as innocent as looking up a name) and I saw that Ned Stark's date of living had an end date. Needless to say, Season One Episode Nine didn't quite pack the punch with me that it could have.
Let me second that. I too tried to research some while reading and found out a couple horrible facts... I also made a mistake and commented out loud about a character who may or may not have died in book 5 and my wife still won't let me live it down.
I recommend the towerofthehand.com because you get to set your level by both TV series and books.
I've been reading the books right before the seasons start so I have them pretty fresh in memory. I have to be careful on reddit because sometimes I think a thread will be ok and then someone drops a huge spoiler for book 5 even though the thread is about book 3. My wife isn't reading the books, but she spoiled herself about part of the RW by reading about casting changes. She came home one day and said, "OMG, you didn't tell me [insert character] died!" to which I replied, "That's because I didn't know. Thanks." Luckily, that scene was so much more than just that, so it wasn't such a big deal.
+1 for towerofthehand.com. That is an awesome website.
As much as possible since I too learned that Stark loses his head. So what I'm saying here is complete speculation, Re: the show, and what may or may not happen in the books. I in no way need anyone who's read them to confirm/deny/say we don't know whether it's accurate or not. It's solely for TV show speculation-
I always thought it would make sense that Snow's mother was Baratheon's sister who Ned loved. Which would double the reason for his wife to hate him, so it might be a good idea to keep it secret. And it would also thus make Snow an heir to the throne (if you believe Baratheon as a rightful king and not think that, even though he was mad, Targaryen was the king, thus making Daenerys the person who should truly be on the throne. I mean, assuming you think any of them should be and aren't big on democracy.)
The King didn't have any sisters. It was Ned's sister that King Robert loved, so that is unlikely. To clarify Lyanna was a Stark that Robert was betrothed to during his rebellion, however she tragically died before the end of the war leaving Robert to marry Cersei.
It is ironic. Most definitely.
She is most like Lyanna, who will probably be described in further detail later this episode by Jojen and Meera.
I'll take the mercenaries *and* the dragon, thankyouverymuch.
I figured she would kill that slave master. That guy had some funny dialogue in previous episodes but he was a piece of shit.
Usually I watch the episode a second time Monday after work, but holy shit I might watch it again right now. Unreal episode all around.
This was definitely the best epsiode so far - my favorite scene would have to be when Theon is confiding in his "friend"... He basically summed it all up by saying that he had a choice... but he chose wrong. But frustratingly, he can't see that he does have a chance at redemption. That Ramsay guy is a maniac.
If you liked that, then hold onto your butts, because it isn't slowing down anytime soon.
Oh trust me, I know
In the books, Theon's mental state starts dehumanized and is slowly peeled back like an onion but here it is extremely visceral how he is progressing towards dehumanization. The line about Robb inherting the north simply because he was born and that Theon was born of the iron islands really makes his actions in the last books even more endearing also. I just feel so much pity for him and while his choice did end up screwing the Starks (and others) over, it was because he felt like he had to be loyal to his own roots. Unfortunately, his people betrayed him. Poor guy.
Martin has an amazing talent for shades of gray. There are very few characters who are totally bad or totally good and their complexities are tremendous. It would've been easy for anyone to write, for example, an arrogant twat who's boffing his sister and shoving kids out windows to hide it, but Martin does an amazing job of teasing out the intracacies of people like Jaime Lannister and Theon Greyjoy.
King Joffrey is one of those rare pure evil characters. I hate him so much!
and I agree 100%. In both watching and reading the books I find myslef constantly flipflopping as to whether I like certain characters or not. In the first season I absolutely hated Jaime Lannister and now I find myself feeling sorry for him and wanting him to find the strength to weild a sword left-handed and somehow fight his way free of his captors. With Theon I went from indifferent to enjoying him, then hating him and now...feeling sorry for him. I sometimes find myself wishing he could somehow make ammends with the Starks and live happily ever after. It such a roller coaster.
One of the only ones I had a great affinity for from the start was Tyrion Lannister. I don't really know why that is, it just happened. That affinity has only grown as the books and show has progressed to show how truly awful his family (particulaly his father and sister) treats him.
I will say there are 2 character that I has absolutely hated from the introduction of them to the story and they are Joffery and Tywin. Seriously, there has been no roller coaster where the 2 of them have been concerned.
I love this series (even moreso the books) and must say I enjoy discussing it here.
It's easy to explain the affinity for Tyrion. Even if it weren't for the witty quips and obvious disgust he has for Joffrey. He's friendly to the Starks even when they aren't friendly to him because of his last name, and he plots against Cersei as much as anyone else.
Jaime is interesting because now that he's short one hand, I feel like he's been karmically repaid for crippling Bran, so he's much harder to hate anymore. The Hound is another one who ought to be totally despicable and yet I actually like. Even Tywin doesn't come up to the level of Joffrey; if I had to pick someone else to put on the Joffrey end of the like-hate scale it's either Lysa or Gregor.
Littlefinger. That dude has it coming.
He is a funny character. In the beginning you develop some empathy toward him based on the story Little Finger tells Sansa in relation to how his face was burned. This just after you hate the man for killing an innocent young boy who had done nothing wrong.
Then he seems to continuously be helping Sansa in various ways while still outwardly trying to be viewed as a monster who cares nothing for human life. He is a bit of an inigma.
My hatred for Tywin is almost soley based on the manner in which he treats Tyrion. In the books and the show alike there seem to be moments where you (at least I do) think Tywin is about to show, even if only in a small way, his affection for Tyrion only to be hit with yet another horrible portrayal of his distain for his son. I hate that guy. If not for that, he would almost be a likable character in my opinion.
Since the sea was burning green. Not sure there was any part that dragged. From the sorcerer to all the plotting around Sansa to Lefty's interaction as a prisoner, it was some great stuff. And that's even before the big finish. I kinda expected that dragons aren't exactly sold, but the way she became a leader of men was great stuff.
DRAGON CITY BABY!
Can't wait for next week
Who do you think wins that Night's watch battle? Seems like half go rogue and hald stayed good soldiers. That guy saying that he's going to hunt the fat one and the girl makes you think that bad guys win but I find it hard to believe the just killed the good ones so quickly. especiall the ones that you see talking all the time.
If you remember from Season 2, Craster gives his boys to his "Gods" - the White Walkers who presumably leave him untouched as long as they keep getting boys. They probably have some way of knowing that he's had a child -> Gilly's child is a boy. Those White Walkers aren't going to be happy when they find out a.) Craster's dead and b.) that boy is gone. Whomever is staying at Craster's is going to be meeting those White Walkers again and probably won't live to tell the tale this time.
It was my impression that Craster let his sons die of exposure not as any kind of offering, but just to prevent eventual competition for leadership of his harem. The whole gods/sacrifice angle sounded like a transparent excuse for the practice so that the Night's Watch can somewhat ignore the fact that they're staying with an abusive, gluttenous murderer.
You must have missed an episode in season two. Jon Snow actually sees (and so do we, the viewers) a white walker take away a sacrificed son of Craster.
I saw that, but is there any indication that Craster has some kind of implicit deal with the White Walkers? Or is that just one of the things that can happen to kids left outside north of the wall?
Edit: never mind; it appears you're right. I guess I totally missed that aspect of it.
Just to explicitly state this, Jon Snow tells Mormont about it and Mormont knew, which meanst hat Craster knows.
Not to that point in the book yet. I suspect that the fighting actually will not last long, with the rogue group staying at Craster's keep and the other group running off and heading back to the wall.
In reading the books I'd always considered the Daenerys chapters a sometimes unwelcome diversion from the "main" story. Half the time I liked them but half the time I was all "come on, shit's happening in Westeros, get back there already." Then I got to this chapter and changed my mind.
Was waiting for someone to off him but I was sad to see Mormont go.
Best episode they've ever done. The last scene was perfect. Never thought it could be as perfect as it was in the book but it blew that out of the water.
It was a good scene in the books but perfectly executed in the show. When she begins speaking Valaryian, and the look on her face....just fantastic.
Everyone seems to be missing one of my favorite characters... Grandma Tyrell! She is hilarious, love that woman!
Definitely best episode of the season so far. I was hoping for some clarfication, was Theon's "friend" that saved him working for the Stark's the whole time or was he actually working for the Greyjoys? Was his plan to bring him back to the tower the whole time or was it just when Theon ultimately told him he chose the wrong side that he chose to give him back to the torturing?
The point with the Theon material is that it's supposed to be deliberately confusing - Theon has no idea what's going on... he only knows that he was being tortured, escaped, caught again, almost raped, and then tricked by his "friend" into coming back to the torture chamber. It's not making sense to Theon, so the viewer also doesn't know what's going on.
And trust me when I say I think at this point it's supposed to be hard-ish to tell. But I will say you have enough information at this point to make an informed guess. That scene with Theon admitting that Ned Stark was his father figure was absolutely incredible for me. Alfie Allen gets props for some really good acting there.
Killed it last season and I think that is the reason Theon has gotten so much screen time. Him saying I choose wrong makes you almost pity him, almost.
But Alfie Allen is making a name for himself with this role. I loved his stuff last season, but what he's doing this season also shows his range. He's bringing dimensions to Theon that I don't feel we see as clearly in the books. And what's more is he's doing it with limited screen time. This is one of the best things I think D&D have done with the show this season.
I see, I imagined it was just a more elaborate way to enjoy Theon's misery. What a great episode, totally watching it again tomorrow
We haven't seen much of Jamie Lannister's code of ethics since he punched out the soldier who speared Ned's leg, but we're starting to get a few more glimpses.
Sir Friendzone hasn't had much dialogue thus far.
I already miss Jon Snow. In the books, Ygritte is not attractive. Well done, sir.
Unless you have something against redheads, I'm pretty sure the books never say she's unattractive. In fact, I always got the opposite impression.
I always got the impression in the books that she wasn't much of a looker. However, I'm glad they made her attractive, and it doesn't really affect the story in any way.
Taken from the GOT wiki page. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Ygritte
Ygritte is nineteen, and described as short for her age, skinny but well-muscled, with a round face, small hands, a pug nose, and crooked white teeth. Her most distinctive feature was her fiery red hair. The wildlings consider red hair to be lucky and describe those with it as having been "kissed by fire." 
Despite her unconventional features, Jon Snow sees her as beautiful.
I wondered how this would play out on TV and figured it couldn't be done, but this episode was amazing. The ending actually gave me goosebumps if I'm being honest. I do find myself constantly being a critic of the show while comparing it to the book, but I have to say that despite the many subtle differences, I really love the show as well. Like many others, I often watch each episode at least twice. Can't wait until next sunday night.
Yea, there are things that kind of irk me because it doesn't seem like there is a reason for changing it from the book, but they seem to nail all of the big events by either keeping them true to the book or making them even more awesome. I find myself getting upset of small things, but then I realize that the show becomes more potent when they cut out the endless chapters of people walking places. I always thought it was kind of cool (but kind of boring at the same time) that people seemed to cross paths and just miss each other without realizing it. However, cutting the crossing of paths between Arya and Jaime ends up being a very good change because otherwise last night's episode (and next week's...:D) would have had to wait another week or two for the additional meaningless events. So, I've been trying to keep myself from comparing it to the books because, even if they aren't identical, they are both fantastic in their own ways.
I think the show is able to counteract one of the books' major shortcomings, which is the difficulty understanding the simultenaity of all of the plots that Martin has going on, because the show is not obligated to the chapter form that Martin kind of has to use. In the books, certain characters disappear for hundreds of pages, creating a sense of "what was Arya doing again" for me everytime a long silent storyline popped up again. In the show, they can intercut short scenes to keep characters "alive" for viewers, even in episodes where they don't feature prominently.
The expansiveness of Martin's plot is going to pose the biggest issue for the showrunners in upcoming seasons. I'm expecting they're going to have to engage a pretty significant smashing together of books 4 and 5, which seemed to overlap temporally (as well as hopefully editing out some storylines).
Yea, it seems that they are moving ahead with certain storylines, though, and leaving some behind. I think that certain characters will start their book 4/5 storylines in season 4 while others will still be finishing up their book 3 storylines. I think that's how they are going to try to cut through some of the dullness at the beginning of books 4 and 5. Essentially, certain characters start their dullness in the later books while other characters have exciting things going on from the end of book 3. Then, as book 3 wraps up, exciting things from books 4 and 5 start to happen. I really think this is the only way they are going to be able to fit the best parts of all of the books into seasons of this size.
Does anybody stream these episodes, or is everyone an HBO subscriber?
and I can't believe this thread is still active. From UM News Service: "U-M prepares for Zombie Apocalypse". It's about time the School of Public Health takes this threat seriously. I am half way through World War Z, and the threat seems grave indeed.
Some of his critiques can come off as snobish (he doesn't like to accept that some shows/movies aren't trying to be literary pieces of art), but Andy Greenwald at Grantland writes up excellent recaps/analysis of the GoT episodes.
Also, he's never read the books and writes it solely as a viewer of the television show, which is good for us that are not ahead of the series in any way.
His recap of last night's episode is great:
I read his recaps and take them FWIW. I can't fault him for questioning some plot lines because he obviously has never read or plan to read the books.
Has to get on this....
We can't get outdone by Wisconsin!