OT: Game of Thrones 5/12
For those without HBO:
If it stays true to the books, which I assume it will, this one should be one hell of an episode
Doesn't look like it stayed true, because while good nothing huge happened.
even think it was good. I know it is like treason to say this but that was not a good hour of television. Episode 4 of this season was spectacular, perhaps the best episode of the show period or neck and neck with Baelor at least, but save Littlefinger's sermon in The Climb, the last three episodes have been flat out dissapointing. The same foreshadowing has been going on for 3 episodes now, and you can only listen to characters talk about what might happen and why it will be important so much before you start to lose interest. Tywin Lannister has single handidly made GOT watchable for nearly a month now and with his limited screen time last night I actually found myself drifting off and day dreaming a little bit. I still say this is the best television show I have ever seen but it needs to make a move here. Last night was, OK I'll just say it, it was a pretty tough watch.
They can either advance a plotline quickly, and ignore all the other characters, or make multiple characters take small steps.
But as rusalle2012 already said below, a lot of stuff did happen tonight. I'm not sure what you want that's not there....big battle scenes? Conclusions of storylines? It's all kind of an ongoing saga set at the book's pace. They could do the cliffnotes, old style movie adaptation of condensing 900 pages into 2 hours, but I don't think that's what is attracting people to the show. If you're wanting dragons and armies every episode like #4, then maybe the show isn't what you're looking for. Which is fine, not everyone has to love a show. But I'm not sure where you're going to find it. It still is a tv show, and every episode (or 3) isn't going to be The Hobbit 2.
get the Hobbit reference as I have not even seen the trailor let alone the movie, and no I don't want armies and dragons every single episode, that is not what I am saying. I know this book was made into two seasons and I think they are having to stretch quite a bit to fill time. The characters may be making "steps" but they are infant steps, not even toddler ones, and the same information is being hashed out time after time after time after time after time after time. The construct of the show has been everything leads up to episode 9, and it has worked for 2 seasons. I think this season would have been better if it abandoned that construct at least for this season. Perhaps more time could have spent on the fallout of what is to come in the final episodes by moving the large scale events of this season to earlier episodes. To say that this show is not for me is to dismiss my opinion outright when I have been following this show faithfully from the beginning and when many people share the same opinion I have. GOT has reached its first slump. The stuff north of the Wall has been nearly incoherent and quite frankly, Jamie's time at Harrenhal has been a bit of a mess. I am sure it will recover but this has been the least impressive string of episodes in this the existence of the show. I am far from the only person that feels that way.
But I'm not getting a lot of what you DO want. You want the finale to be somewhere in the middle of the season? So I'd guess then we'd get a lot of complaints on how finishing the season was just filler and it didn't end on a bang. To have a lot of filler in splitting it up into two seasons they'd need to be adding a lot of stuff that wasn't in the book. Because if they put the whole book in one season, people would be complaining that they left out way too much.
do large scale events always have to take place at the end of a season? The "cliffhanger" version of television is wonderful for ER and Criminal Minds, but there is no reason that GOT has to be split up into ten episode arcs where the events of significance have to take place in the 9th episode. The first season set up nicely for Baelor in the 9th but the story naturally lead up to the events in that episode without having to unnecessarily kill time to get there. I understand what you are saying, but you have to admit that there has been an awful lot of repeat dialogue in this season that really leaves you in the same place where you started. I am not one of the people who doesn't understand the nature of this show, it is a dialogue driven character drama, I get it. I don't need wild fire every episode, but the show is too original to settle into a predictable formula season after season. Mix it up a little bit, that is all I ask.
They better show some dragons this episode!
You must be a happy man.
i want a pet dragon
What do you call an Orc hanging on the wall with no arms and no legs?
Nice ending but I want to see some battling. Next week looks good.
Great message board. Guys really know their stuff! http://community.wizards.com/
Your avatar is just as off-topic.
Kinda a let down of an episode. Really think that it could have been better. Still looking forward to the next couple episodes.
I thought Baxter would definitely show up against the bear
When Jaime jumped down, I instantly responded with "I immediately regret this decision!"
They've stayed fairly true to the books but there have also been many changes, which is understandable. Considering what's happened so far, they are aiming to end this season with a bang. A lot of dialogue in this episode is very foreboding.
I liked the very ending but the whole episode was very slow and essentially nothing really happened. Although the scene with Theon was amazing. Can't believe there are only 3 episodes left, I love this show too much to go another year until season 4.
is every man's greatest fantasy and worst nightmare - happening at the same time.
Yes, it was a slow episode. However, it was also a great episode. The writing, acting, directing, and cinematography were fantastic. The production value has been noticeably better this season.
There were also some great scenes: Tywin and Joffrey's discussion in the throne room, the continued torture of Theon except with a twist, the negotiations between Daenerys and the Yunkai'i, etc. In fact, I can't think of one bad scene in this episode (except for maybe Orell hitting on Ygritte).
You can't really say nothing happened. We're not going to be treated to fights and battles every week, as that's just not the show's style. But a lot happened:
-Jamie's further character development, saving Brienne.
-First signs of tension between Tywin and Joffrey.
-Who are the "powerful friends" Daenaerys spoke of?
-Are Tyrion and Shae done? What will appen between he and Sansa?
-Robb's impending child, while still losing his grasp on the war.
Some of this stuff is a little subtle, yeah, but I've got a feeling we're being set up for a pretty epic finale to the season.
For those saying "Nothing Happened," I don't understand what you expect.
Brienne was saved from Bolton's Bullies (trademark pending)
We were introduced to a new city and saw Daenerys make a huge power play - but not without some suspense; who are the powerful friends that dude was speaking of?
The Hound now has Arya.
"King" (that's becoming lol-worthy) Robb is going to be a daddy and his grip on the war continues to escape him.
We finally got a Tywin and Joffrey confrontation.
Sure there was no huge battle, but that's never been Game of Thrones. It has those huge climatic moments, but what makes them so impactful is that we have such a major investment in the characters. There was a ton of character development in tonight's episode, which was cool to see. Jaime's transformation alone seems to have hit a "complete" type moment.
100% agree. Great episode. My favorite scene was Tyrion and Bronn.
Just fyi, Bolton's Bullies (tm) are called the Brave Companions (in the books they're also known as the Bloody Mummers) . They are soldiers-for-hire who right now are working for Bolton.
I like Bolton's Bullies (tm) better.
I expect people to get clipped. It is not so much that nothing happened, it is that this season has been very slow. People need to start dying or I'm going to be upset. Also, I really want to know who that guy is torturing Theon. He is really creepy.
Believe me, s#%t is going to hit the fan, but this are parts that are setting important things going forward, (except for Theon's torture, they have been overplaying that for far too long).
First of all, this is season 3, they're already around if not a little ahead the first half of book 3, wich they said it was going to be split in two seasons, so they kinda have to slow down a bit, I mean book 6 has been under development for over 2 years and who knows when book 7 is going to be released, so if they don't want to overtake the books and have to wait 2,3 years to resume the series they have to slow down.
Things are setting up and some mayor events are going to happen by the end of this season.
Ok Mgobender you make a good point. I also really have liked Jamie's character development the best. I remember how much I used to hate him and I find myself rooting for him now
Here's a really subtle point that I thought proved just how awesome GoT can be:
When Jaime was first being led out of Harrenhal, there was a moment when someone said something to imply that Brienne would suffer a predictable fate. At the time, Jaime was stoic and did not object. To me, at that point there were two distinct paths: 1 - Jaime is almost home free, he doesn't need to have any compassion for Brienne and if he keeps his mouth shut, he'll be back to King's Landing shortly. 2 - He was still scheming a way to rescue Brienne, but knew that he first needed to gain some leverage.
Once he found that leverage in his messenger, he made the "right" or "moral" (which is a thing to say with great caution on GoT) decision to force them to go back.
Also, I love how we've really seen that Jaime is so much like Tyrion. I always think back to that first season episode when the Lannisters are eating breakfast in Winterfell and you really can feel that Jaime and Tyrion are truly brothers. Now I'm pulling for them to be reuinted even more and to see if they can disrupt or challenge Tywin's plans.
I know the Jaime and Tyrion idea is pretty ludacrious - so I think that's what you're referring to. Still, it would be awesome to see them somehow scheming together. (And if you are making that reaction because you know what will happen because you've read the books, I ask that you remain tactful, don't reveal anything, etc.)
It would be interesting to see Jaime's reaction if he had been the one to be arranged to marry Sansa. Tyrion, in a ever-fruitless effort to bring pride upon his name, is not exactly putting up a fight with his father. Of course, I don't know how he would do that, but he has pulled off some impressive intellectual feats thus far.
Yes i've read the books, and my response of lol was an intentionally vague response to jamie/tyrion teaming up. You will have answers soon
Awesome. The perfect level of vagueness. Mucho gracias.
you have an interesting definition of soon. its gonna be next season.
Unless they are deviating from the books, I am right
is going to be both seasons 3 and 4 of the show. I don't think we'll see the Lannister bros reunion until next season, since there's only 3 episodes left this year and a whole lot to still happen in those 3 episodes. Yes they reunite in book 3, but I think it's gonna be another year in the show.
Good point, i totally forgot they were splitting the season up. That will probably be the season 4 finale then.
Need to sleep more
While it was a fair assumption they'd reunite at some point, now I know it for sure... can we please be careful about book spoilers?
"They reunite in book 3"
Even if it is a fair assumption, that's a plot point I don't want revealed to me ahead of time. (Yeah, I know my fault for reading the Internet and all).
i just didnt want you to have your hopes up for it being this season, is all. I tried to be as little spoiler as possible by not discussing any context of the reunion, but the other poster is right you will enjoy the reunion.
No prob. Obviously, it's not a crazy spoiler since it's pretty obviously expected, I'm just super paranoid. There are not many places online to discuss the series without threat of having someone drop a huge plot development on you, and it seems we've built such a place here, so I'm just overly cautious/being a dick about it.
They really didn't spoil anything for you. Seriously.
Practical question (though I think by writing it, I've answered my own question):
Didn't Snow and company climb the wall last week?
Correct me if I'm wrong: They climb the wall, climb down the other side, and now are walking alongside the Wall towards Castle Black?
Isn't Castle Black on the wall? Then where was the Wall in the scenes with Snow, Ygritte, and company.
I didn't pay quite enough attention, but here's a map if that helps.
link for big size
All the castles at the wall are on the ground, would be next to impossible to live at the top. They claimed over and took the paths down, so are walking in the same area Bran and Hodor are in.
After rewatching, this is accurate. They are crossed on the west side and are in that mountainous region
Probably walkng a decent distance south of the wall so that no one on the wall can see them. My only question is why the weather changes so much south of the wall. I feel like it should still be cold and snowy where they are.
Immediately north of the wall is a forest as well. It does transition very quickly though. The wall is also protected by magic spells against the others and probably the cold as well since the two are associated.
I was trying to figure out how all the other wildlings joined up with them after they climbed the wall, or did they all climb as well? It appeared a lot of them fell when the sheet of ice broke as they were climbing. I also find it hard to believe that whatever small number of men/women climbed the walls can take castle black
Wasn't explained in the show, but in the book they threw down ropes and a bunch more climbed up after.
show has not explained the events at or north of the wall nearly enough. That part of the season started very strong but has really become quite a mess. From the show you would believe that there are like 7 wildlings trying to storm Castle Black. Not well done.
The show has many times struggled to represent the numbers of people supposedly involved in a lot of events. The battle of Blackwater for example seemed to involve only a few hundred people. Unfortunately, the budget plays a large role, no doubt. They can't afford to pay and clothe thousands of extras. I'd like to see some CGI involved perhaps, since it seems to be doing the trick for dragons. But maybe that's more difficult than I think.
not just a numbers thing with the stuff in the North. As a show only guy, I can say I have found myself tuning out the Jon Snow stuff because they simply have not explained the parties involved and the motivations enough.
if you look behind Jon and Ygritte at the end of episode 26 you can see tormund and orell pulling ropes out of their bags. Those ropes, I assume, are the ladders they will drop for the others...
That said, the north has not been given near as much detail as expected (by me at least) so we will just have to see how it goes...
Last night's episode was ok. Still good but nothing crazy. It was written by GRRM so I thought it would be better, however there were a couple 'mysteries' solved, or at least hinted at.
Myself, I am not as into the huge theories of the series. I know what they are but I figure we will find out in the end. I will say that when Talisa said she was pregnant I sat up in surprise as I did not see that one coming...
And the Theon scenes are becoming redundant...
The Theon scenes are brutal right now... and not because of the torture. Or maybe it is that we are being tortured by redundancy. Maybe that's the point?! We've been tricked!
as a book-reader, I enjoy Theon's scenes. That's obviously because I have knowledge show watchers do not about the reasoning. I think there are a couple of reasons for why they're doing what they're doing. If they don't outright reveal who the broomsweep/boy/torturer is by the end of Season 3, they will have screwed it up in my opinion.
That's what everyone has been saying, so I'm cool with the long leash.
Last night was the first time that I thought "this is totally unneccesary." Assuming they did what was implied, then I guess the scene's build-up makes sense. However, during the sexposition, I was doing the bungee jumping off the Stratosphere equivalent of eye-rolling.
I think it could have been done better/quicker.
What Theon said.....
They took their time about it, but they at least started to show just how truly afraid of the boy Theon is when he was asking "where is he?" I do find myself a bit incredulous about his ability to believe that he was OK. Of course, with so much lack of water and poor treatment, he may have thought he was dreaming or hallucinating and therefore figured it was OK to enjoy the experience, whatever it was.
Game of Thrones is one of the few non-sports, non-news/interview TV shows that I watch, and I’ve enjoyed it from the start. But not having read the books, I have no way of knowing how the story develops. I agree that while it might not have ranked among the best episodes of this series, there were several important developments that were played out in The Bear and The Maiden Fair, albeit slowly. (The scene with the bear was just too reminiscent of Anchorman for me to take it seriously.)
Even in slow-moving episodes of this series, on further reflection, there often are moments that seem forgotten, but that become memorable as the story progresses. Among the other developments from last night’s episode that I haven’t seen mentioned in this thread:
Early on, we saw Osha* arguing with the Reeds about how she and Hodor are doing all the work while JoJen Reed is rambling on about the visions he and Bran may share, instead of getting on with their trek to re-unite Bran and Rickon with Jon Snow at Castle Black. Osha suddenly reveals that she had a lover when she was younger. but that her man left her for war and then returned to her as a pale-skinned, blue-eyed White Walker whom she killed. (Could this be her way of suggesting that the further north they travel, the closer they might come to the White Walkers?)
We also saw Sansa and Margaery discussing their upcoming weddings with a hint that Sansa might actually enjoy her pre-marital, love-making lessons. (Perhaps that will be reminiscent of the episode when Daenerys was introduced to the method for pleasing Khal Drogo?)
*Osha may not be among the more popular characters in Game of Thrones, but I find her to be intriguing. In interviews, wild and crazy Natalia Tena reminds me of Ireland’s answer to Courtney Love. While she’s possibly better known as Nymphadora Tonks from the Harry Potter films, she’s also lead singer for the band Molotov Jukebox. "Get Ready" for Osha like you might’ve never seen her.
Really glad they blurred the end of Theon's scene. Agree with some above commenters that it was interesting that Talisa said she was pregnant. Also interesting/pleased at the fact that they revealed to Gendry his heritage.
Definitely a slower episode, but the more things I count that have to happen between the end of this season and the end of next season, the more I wonder how they are going to fit it all in.
The last three episodes should (hopefully) culminate for the four major arcs this season (if you can call them that). Dany's liberation mission, Robb trying to get more troops, Jon Snow's allegiance, and the series of wedding arrangements made in King's Landing.
but still thumbs up from me.
Not having read past book 2, I see Arya Stark as a young Anikan Skywalker right now...
Tyrion and his words.
As others have said the finale for this season should be epic.
Have to say that little interaction and the way they did it was fantastic.
Love how Tywin starts at the bottom of the stairs but slowly walks up and stands over Joffrey when he questions him. Then, as he walks away, Tywin is seen smirking.
Have to say Tywin is probably one of my favorite characters.