OT Forbes top 25 public universities
August 28th, 2016 at 11:33 AM ^
Be right back! Going to eat my heart out because OP went to a university Forbes thinks is better
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August 28th, 2016 at 11:37 AM ^
Oh lighten up...
August 28th, 2016 at 11:35 AM ^
Why do these lists come out seemingly every 3 months? Nothing has changed since the last list yet we are again in a different position. They're completely useless as anything other than recruiting ammo.
August 28th, 2016 at 1:33 PM ^
That's precisely why these lists are complete bullshit. Universities don't significantly change in months or even years. It probably takes up to a decade to see significant shifts in a university. Therefore, these lists that change every time they are put out are really not so transparent attempts to get clicks.
August 28th, 2016 at 11:36 AM ^
They expect us to click through 25 pictures...no.
August 28th, 2016 at 1:16 PM ^
They also expect us to disable our ad blocker...not going to happen
August 28th, 2016 at 6:12 PM ^
open up the link.
Top 10? Michigan, Cal, UCLA , Virginia, North Carolina, Texas in there?
August 28th, 2016 at 11:36 AM ^
Ranking of UM (in anything) is never OT.
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August 28th, 2016 at 11:37 AM ^
These are undergrad rankings, I assume(?). I think Michigan has raised or held serve in every department/college except LS&A since I graduated. As of 2005, Michigan was rarely #1 among all publics, usually #2 behind Berkeley, and sometimes #3 behind Berkeley and UVa. Now it's sometimes #7? That's a sad situation.
August 28th, 2016 at 11:43 AM ^
We will be moving up soon with the new president. #7 is pretty good for a university that excels in so many things.
August 28th, 2016 at 11:56 AM ^
These rankings are idiotic. You can make alot of schools a top 5 based on which metrics you use. UM is anywhere from one of the top schools in the world to the #7 public (my ass), depending on which ranking you go by. To me, it is with Berkley and UVa. I no longer consider UNC a top academic institution, fake classes and all.
August 28th, 2016 at 12:10 PM ^
If anyone bothered to read the article they'd see that this is a unique ranking in that the academies (usually not included in these) go 1-2-3 and William and Mary (usually not counted either to my memory) is 5. Other than those it's still a top 3 of UVA-Berkeley-UMich, the UCLA. So pretty much par for the course.
August 28th, 2016 at 12:15 PM ^
I am unashamed to say I did not read the article. Thanks for doing the dirty work for us. :- )
August 28th, 2016 at 5:21 PM ^
To say that this is an "article" is probably a bit generous as well.
Forbes has this weird metric where not paying for school is a huge factor in its quality, so the service academies are given a huge boost even though they seem to ignore the compulsory military service requirements that come along with that.
August 29th, 2016 at 6:37 AM ^
The compulsory military service may be a feature, not a bug. Just think - a 100% hiring rate right out of school.
August 29th, 2016 at 11:33 AM ^
They're goosing the system at both ends - it's genius!
August 28th, 2016 at 12:14 PM ^
how do they rank the military academies? Shouldn't it be a three way tie?
August 28th, 2016 at 12:23 PM ^
It changes every year with the awarding of the Commander in Chief trophy.
/s
August 28th, 2016 at 12:19 PM ^
I always liked Craig and Angie better
August 28th, 2016 at 12:30 PM ^
Sweet, Berkeley is #6. If only their football team was #6 with Michigan #1 of course.
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August 28th, 2016 at 12:47 PM ^
Patriotism is cool and all, but there is no universe where the military academies are at the same level as Cal or UVA (or us :) ).
August 28th, 2016 at 4:15 PM ^
I beg to differ
August 28th, 2016 at 1:06 PM ^
Forbes is a mess. Content-wise it has turned into Business Buzzfeed (Bizfeed?). Its website freaks out at most adblockers. I use uBlock Origin and Forbes doesn't even know what to do with it. It just freezes on the quote page.
August 28th, 2016 at 1:42 PM ^
I spent 2 years at West Point and 2 years at Michigan. The 2 years at West Point were like repeating high school, and the 2 years at Michigan were really hard, partly because I learned so little at West Point in spite of doing well in terms of class rank. Unless things have changed dramatically, which is certainly possible considering my last year at West Point was 1966, having Michigan below West Point is the height of absurdity.
August 28th, 2016 at 2:00 PM ^
I didn't read the article and don't care to. The author, or Forbes, are making a point by having the academies ranked 1 - 3. They are good schools, but do not hold a candle to the other top ranked universities.
August 29th, 2016 at 9:00 AM ^
You've never been, so you have no idea.
I took as many engineering classes as engineering students do, but I didn't graduate with an engineering degree. If I had, it would have been a LOT more.
August 28th, 2016 at 2:12 PM ^
This is a bit odd, that the service acadamies are ranked at the top. Like to think our armed forces graduates are the smartest in the country but somethng tells me not. The usual order of public universities is Cal at the top followed by us, UCLA, UVA, and William and Mary in some sort of order. Yes W&M makes it into the top rankings a lot and it is a public university ( like a lot of us I thought it was private )
August 28th, 2016 at 4:10 PM ^
They provide a unique experience ( or perhaps ordeal is the right word) but as far as an actual education they're well behind schools like Michigan, Cal and UVa.
August 28th, 2016 at 4:10 PM ^
They provide a unique experience ( or perhaps ordeal is the right word) but as far as an actual education they're well behind schools like Michigan, Cal and UVa.
August 28th, 2016 at 4:19 PM ^
Comparing universities across categories is a fool's errand. A big university is not trying to do the same things as a smaller liberal arts school, and vice versa. They are just different and quite happy to be that way. Comparing the service academies (who are trying to produce military officers afterall) is very, very different from what Michigan or UVA is trying to do.
August 28th, 2016 at 4:26 PM ^
UNC belongs nowhere near any top 25 list for a very long time. #degreemill
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August 28th, 2016 at 5:17 PM ^
I respect the armed services, but only Forbes, with their heavy focus on tuition, deem them these elite schools. All three major services academies produce solid graduates, but there are a lot of factors that are seemingly ignored in these rankings. That said, glad to see UM up there.
August 28th, 2016 at 6:53 PM ^
That's an absurd list. No academic in the US would rate the service academies or William and Mary higher than UM. Virginia is at least an elite public university, but even then it's a questionable choice. The best public universities, from an academic standpoint, are Michigan, Cal and UCLA.
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August 28th, 2016 at 11:37 PM ^
How many people do you know got in to west point?
How many people do you know who got in to U of M?
I spent 5 years active and 17 in the reserves, and I don't know more than a handful of west pointers.
I did not go to west point, but I did graduate from U of M and I see no problem with the service academies being listed so high.
Character Counts.
August 29th, 2016 at 11:07 PM ^
Universities are typically ranked according the quality of (higher) education they provide and the extent/quality of the research they produce. The service academies have different priorities; as a result, they don't rate that highly on either of those criteria. UM ranks high on the former and very high on the latter.
That's really all there is to it. Only Cal and UCLA really compare to UM among public universities.
August 28th, 2016 at 7:20 PM ^
One commits to five years active service plus three reserves. In any accounting textbook, that's the definition of an incurred liability.
August 28th, 2016 at 8:52 PM ^
I'm a West Point graduate. I believe it is always difficult to compare institutions with different missions, but I think those who are dismissing the service academies as academically inferior are just wrong. Yes, the metrics used by Forbes do artificially inflate rankings for "free" institutions, but look at the academic profiles of the incoming classes. Based on standardized test scores, USMA is right there with UM. In my opinion, it is more difficult to gain an appointment to West Point than it is to be accepted at UM. I believe that because you need to get a congressional nomination, pass a thorough physical examination, pass a fitness assessment, and meet height/weight requirements. In addition to the academic screenings, leadership experience and potential carries a lot of weight. Athletic participation is also a key factor in the admissions process. I think the average cadet is more well rounded than the average freshman at UM. Plus, there are usually only about 1200 new cadets that enter each year, so it is quite a bit smaller. USMA also stacks up quite well in things like number of Rhodes and Marshall scholars (and Medal of Honor recipients). Despite the small number of graduates, West Point has produced a lot of leaders both in and out of uniform. From presidents and other government leaders to astronauts to engineers to businesspeople, the list of distinguished graduates is impressive. One of my favorites has always been Michigan native Pete Dawkins, who won the Heisman and was also a Rhodes scholar.
I have the utmost respect for UM as an academic institution. I have family members with advanced degrees from UM that I hold in high regard. I'm not necessarily claiming that USMA is a better academic school, but if you think there isn't an argument to be made, I believe you should take a closer look at the service academies. What the Forbes rankings did do correctly was put USMA ahead of USNA and USAFA! Oh, and look out for the Black Knights coming into Ann Arbor in 2019. Just kidding, but I think the UM fans will enjoy hosting Army.
Beat Navy
August 28th, 2016 at 9:50 PM ^
How about that...a reasonable, well-thought out argument on the internet...The academies are unique so it will always be hard to accurately point out their place in these rankings, but as you said a case can be made.
Thanks for your service.
August 28th, 2016 at 11:50 PM ^
These are the first rankings I've seen that don't wildly overrate Berkeley.
August 29th, 2016 at 1:50 AM ^
I dont consider UNC to have any academic integrity with the outright fraud that they have been pulling off and finally got caught for.