OT - First Gen/Low-Income Student Experience

story about this earlier this week. It honestly pissed me off. I had very little money while in Ann Arbor and don't feel it cheated me a bit. Yeah, there was a crowd that traded on their background but I wasn't anymore interested in them than they were in me. College is about where you are going not where you came from and I was never at a loss for friends impassioned by the same belief.

I had no money when I went to Michigan.  I had to borrow every dime I spent.  I had to stay on campus for spring break because I did not have enough money to go anywhere, even back home.

And yet, I never recall it ever mattering to anybody.  Having no money in college is a pretty time-honored tradition and nobody makes a big deal about it, even people who do have money.

Being a college student is one of the few times in your life where poverty is cool.

I come from a long line of electricians--brother, dad, uncles, grandfather, etc.--and was the family's first to go to college (UM, '06). Technically, I still haven't stopped. B.S. in CMB and PolSci, then left to get an MD and am now finishing a biochemistry PhD.

For me, the thought that people would judge or misunderstand me because my parents stopped after high school never crossed my mind. Maybe that judgment happened, but I never noticed and wouldn't have cared. The bigger struggle for me is NOT explaining to the world why I come from the family I do but explaining to my family why I'm entering into the world I am (academia, science, school, school, school). No doubt, they don't understand my life trajectory. But they can tell I'm happy, so there's no tension; just lagging understanding.

As for the money: My folks did everything they could to help, but that was very limited, so I look out lots of loans (and worked one or more jobs for "fun money"). I always figured I was the best bet I could ever make and that a few thousand dollars at that age would far outstrip its value in 10-20 years when finally employed and paying it off. I know I'd make that gamble a thousand times more if given the opportunity.

I think as people become more intellectually aware of the politics of income inequality, they start to see it more in day to day life, especially at a place like Michigan where it's such a big political issue. It's become a much more hot button issue of late especially. It wouldn't surprise me if most of the people saying that they never noticed it went to school a decade or two ago, whereas I think if you asked a UM student today if their financial background has impacted their experience they would say absolutely. I think it says more about today's political climate than anything else.

I went to college from 1977 to 1981. Not Michigan ... was accepted, but could not afford the cost delta over where I went. My weekly discretionary spending budget was $5, and that included Sunday dinner and laundry. I worked every hour I could get, and pretty much any job I could get. All money went to funding college. I received no money from the parents because they had none to spare.

Was I excluded? Not directly, and never intentionally or with malice. But when people went to the bar, I declined. I could not afford it. Pizza? Nope ... a poor value for the dollar. Dating? A real challenge. I didn't resent those with more, though I'll confess some moments of envy.

(High school -- small town -- different matter ... definite social exclusion based on family status there.)

But you know what? No regrets. I'm a better man for it. It taught me some valuable life lessons about hard work and thrift. Bottom line ... the tapestry of life. What was, was. What is, is.

Oh, and HARBAUGH man. Yeah. Harbaugh.

That was an interesting post.  Thanks.

What someone's parents do for a living certainly was not a frequent subject of conversation amongst students at Michigan, in my experience. Sure, it might come up eventually with a few closer friends, but definitely not on a regular basis whatsoever. So in that regard, it's hard to think that even an individual from a significantly underprivileged background should have to feel uneasy about telling fellow students their family's specific careers/education levels. And quite frankly, it's something people just generally aren't interested enough in to even think of.

OTOH, I can understand how one could be self-conscious about the clothes they wear, the car they drive, not having the extra money for a nice dinner, etc.

It's not necessarily the worst idea, though, to allow yourself to take out a bit extra in loans. I typically worked 15-20 hrs/week at UM while a full-time student, yet didn't want to do much more. IMO, trying to work full time so you come out with $50k in debt vs $60k is not worth the added stress. Nor is it worth the risk of your grades taking a hit.

This entire thread can be summed up as "well MY experience was this way, so your experience must be wrong."

I could tell you the SES of pretty much every one of my friends from college. Isn't a normal part of being a friend getting to know more about a person's upbringing and what their parents did for a living?...Especially when you consider that you're in college and many people's choices of majors are at least somewhat influenced by what their parents do.

Our society simply does not value higher education as a public investment. Michigan is not alone among the elite public universities that have had to drastically raise the cost of attendance to survive as an institution. As the cost to attend top schools skyrockets the student population will be skewed toward those who can afford it.

I know you can always find a way and we are in my family. Financial aid has become its own profession now. When you apply for financial aid to good school they determine what 'your share' will be, and in most cases it still puts schools out of reach. I have three kids in college and the financial burden is straining us to the edge, not to mention the years of loans to pay back.

i wonder what people today would think of President Schlissel if he made the same comments as President Angell?

In his 1879 commencement speech, The Higher Education: A Plea For Making It Accessible to All, U of M president James Burrill Angell talks at length about how the mission of the university is to bring "education within the reach of the poor." A few years later, in 1887, Angell goes so far as to say U of M "has always been, and we are proud of the fact, the university of the poor.

I grew up in trailer parks, and at one point was relying on food stamps and the food shelter. I emancipated from my parents in HS, and my Mom could only afford the gas to visit campus once/semester from her house 3 hrs. away. My 2 brothers and I were all first-gen college grads, and we ended up all doing it at UM. I guess my situation was a bit different because I earned a full-ride tuition scholarship to get my tuition covered (but covered everything else myself), while my brothers took on part-time jobs and a shitload of loans. Senior year I had to get a school-funded emergency loan to cover the last semester's living expenses.

Well, my bros and I were stuck around campus every spring break w/ the international students, and we had to forgo more expensive dinners, outings. It wasn't that difficult to adjust. We were used to being the poorest people in our schools growing up, even in middle-class schools. We were at UM because we knew we could get post-grad jobs that would keep us from ever living paycheck-to-paycheck again.

Unless it was happening behind my back, the only people who actually got made fun of about money were the lazy, spoon-fed rich kids who pissed away their parents' money by ditching class and not working a job. There were also humble, hardworking rich kids who were treated as normally as everyone else. In fact, they were always super generous about intentionally inviting their low-income friends to dinner when their parents visited because they knew their parents would and could cover the tab.

I thought it was crazy when I started at UM and saw the avg. household income of a UM student was $150k. "How are they all that rich??" By maintaining that same strict financial discipline over the years, I'm now positioned to demonstrate to my kids $150k is a moderately low bar when they work relentlessly.

first generation. family of five kids. income significantly lower than the average. What I can tell you is that I didn't experience any of these things when I came here. My graduating class was the largest from my hs to attend Michigan, but I ended up connecting most with the "rich" out of state kids. granted Greek life helped with that a bit, but I don't think I was ever asked about my parents income ever. I'm pretty sure most of the people I've met here didn't hold much weight in that

I'd like to see some statistics on how the financial demographics have changed in the last 20 years. I suspect they've changed...but maybe I just think that because the dorms look like luxury resorts compared to how they looked 20 years ago.

tl;dr version - My parents are immigrants and we're different from the many generations of white americans who have built legacies in this country. 

As the child of immigrants, my sister and I were the first in our family to go to college in the US. The article doesn't echo my experience at all. "Where did your parents go to college" and "What do your parents do" were rarely, if ever, the first questions I heard. I gravitated toward other Asians, as we have a shared (or more similar) experience, growing up as 2nd generation* in the US. It was only after some time that I discovered that some of my friends had parents working in dry cleaners (although, really, that's not particularly uncommon), the post office, restaurants, as janitors, etc. One of my good friends back home has both parents working at the post office. 

I do believe the immigrant experience tends to bridge many of the gaps to which this article makes reference. Those of European descent in the US have had generations upon which to build a legacy, so to meet someone at a presitiguous university whose parents have not attended college may be out of the norm.

Immigrant families do not have that history. My father went to university, but his father was a farmer before becoming a pastor. Many immigrants in the 60's and 70's may have gone to college, but found themselves working menial jobs having nothing to do with their engineering or business or fine arts degrees, because that's what was available. Many more never went to college and struck out to the US looking for opportunity. I have 2 uncles who emigrated to the US after high school, never attended any other schooling beyond TOEFL/ESL, and are both now very successful after having worked various jobs (janitorial, cook, dishwasher, dry cleaner, warehouses, factories, etc.) and are sending their kids to college - first generation, as per this article. 

And for the record, my wife's family are also immigrants, and she lived in a trailer park as a kid, then a farm (and even though very low income, she felt bad when she compared to her classmates, many of whom were poverty-level). Her parents worked as janitors for a while and, because there was nobody to watch the kids late at night when they were cleaning the buildings, they'd bring my wife and her brothers along, too. So yeah, long and crazy road, but what does it really matter?

*Note: For some reason, east Asians refer the generation that immigrates to the US as "first generation" and the first generation born in the US as "second generation," as in, we're the second generation to live in the US. South Asians (mostly Indian) refer to the first generation born in the US as "first generation." I don't know why the difference, but it's just a thing. So my "second generation" is equivalent to an Indian-American referring to him/herself as "first generation." 

I was the first in my family to graduate from college, although my mom attended (as a single mom with two kids. Couldn't finish) and others have graduated after me, including my sister who went to UM-Ann Arbor. I chose UM-Dearborn, for lots of reasons but especially because it was free and UM-Ann Arbor would not have been. Many of my peers at UM-D were just like me, first generation college students, working part- or full-time. I was in a sorority but even there I can only remember meeting one "rich" family. So I think my experience is different from the kids in this article. Although I did miss out on some stuff due to my financial situation and having to work, like I couldn't go to football games because I waitressed on weekends. But I still had a fantastic college experience! 

Now, my concern is raising my son to get to know and like and appreciate kids from all walks of life. If he walks up to a new kid and says what do your parents do and what college did they go to, and the kid's parents aren't like me, then I would hope my son would say what kind of music do you like, what classes are you taking, do you follow the football team, to try to find some common ground. 

I was a third-generation UM student, but I may have been part of the last generation where UM was affordable via personal savings in a single income family.  My dad (BS '65 MBA '67)had a good job with an income that allowed us to be middle class.  My mom (BSN '66) worked as a nurse for a year after graduation but was a full-time homemaker and mother after they got married.  My parents saved enough to pay for out-of-state UM tuition for me and my older brother.  I am eternally grateful.

A generation later, my wife and I both work and there's no way we'll be able to afford UM tuition for our kids when that day comes.  It currently sits at 229% of what my parents paid for me.

So the university's student population consists of:

Those whose families can afford to pay tuition outright.

Those who borrow $80k ($200k out-of-state) or more in non-dischargable debt for a bachelor's degree.

Those who receive academic or need-based scholarships.

We heard a lot last year from disillusioned African-American students who felt isolated on campus because they were even more outnumbered than in years past.  This is a milder form of the same lament, but the emotions are the same.  Not sure what the solution is, but building palatial dorms, classrooms, and administrative space while jacking up tuition while government loans moving in lockstep enable it...how long can that trend continue?

I was a first Gen, lower-middle class student who started in 1992.  My high school had two others go to UM who were in the same boat as me.  The three of us hung together, but also branched out, each bringing in "new additions" to a core group.  That group, which still stays in touch and gets together often, runs the gamut in terms of background.  East coast 2nd gen UM folks with money, 3rd gen middle class Michigan natives, 1st gen rich immigrants... none of it mattered back then.

My background came up in conversation, but it was never put to me as a "question."  I never felt "put down" by the kids with money, whether they were in my group or not, and I never felt like I had it "better" or "worse" than anyone else.  Some kids with money drove better cars and lived in better apartments, but had other disadvantages... like a lack of connection with their parents or "expectations" about what they would be.  We all made it work.  I don't recall meeting a single person in all of my time at Michigan who judged me based on my background.  If we had common interests we developed friendships, if we didn't, we faded apart.  I met plenty of kids with backgrounds just like mine who I didn't "mesh" with and others, who came from an entirely different set of circumstances, whom I remain close with to this day.

The fact that me and my buddies from high school had to work while some of our other friends didn't was never a factor.  Working at Outback Steakhouse meant that I could slide my friends into a table during a wait, which they loved.  They'd often pick up the tip when we all went out, or would have us over to their apartment to eat (just bring a few beers!).   

We all looked out for each other in whatever way we could.  The best thing I took away from my time at Michigan was the diversity in friendships that continue to last to this day.

This is a great discussion of an important issue. In my experience instances of overt discrimination or shunning of lower income students are rare.  The vast majority of students at U of M really don’t care about their fellow students’ economic/social/geographic/racial background.  At the same time there have always been groups of students who tend to congregate together.  Some of the bigger groups, Detroit Suburban, Detroit, Michigan small town/rural and east coast Tri-State area were always noticeable. These groups were not 100% from the same background but the 80/20 was typically from the same background.

I don’t think these groups form due to an active dislike of people from other backgrounds.  People just tend to make friends easiest with people like themselves.  There is also the factor that most of us faced in that the first year of college is a big adjustment.  In that environment it is not surprising that many tend to spend time with people who are familiar to them.

This being said one of the greatest opportunities at a place like Michigan is the chance to get to know individuals from backgrounds dramatically different from your own.  While I did some of this during my time at Michigan I wish I had done more.  I will certainly stress this to my children when they go to college.

This is why the rising cost of attendance is such a concern.  Declining diversity weakens the school and lessons the opportunity to learn and grow from all students regardless of background. Efforts to maintain and grow the diversity of the student body across all segments are important. Beyond that efforts by both individuals and the institution to build connections between students of various backgrounds on campus are equally important.  Most people will end up forming social networks made up of people like themselves.  Its takes both institutional and individual effort to build more diverse networks that in the end will make you, Michigan and the country stronger

I agree there should be a bit more social support for those w/o vast wealth to blow.    I could never associate with certain groups of people because I had to work.    I recall a friend almost having to yell at another person to get them to understand that he didn't have money to join them on their Cancun trip.

First generation in graduate school; lower income compared to 99% of my peers. I grew up in India, then came to Michigan for graduate school. At present working in Texas. I have seldom faced overt discrimination. The persistent problem used to be (and still to some extent) not being able to do the same things as my other friends. Staying at someone's place and doing things that doesn't involve spending money was and still is ok. However, as soon as the group wants to go out or do things which involves spending money, I get the hives. To some extent it's my personal problem. But I also think some of it came from my upbringing and background. Having less money meant not doing most of the things my other relatives and friends were doing. So one of the coping mechanism for me was "those are all superfluous and I don't need those". That will come across to others as not open to new ideas and defensive. Once I developed those habits, it's very hard to retrain myself. 

That was the lower income part. The problem with being First Generation is slightly different. Being FG, I didn't know what questions to ask to get the answers I was looking for. I didn't even know what I didn't know. In that respect, a support group for first generation students in undergrad/grad school would help a lot. Think of this as having an elder sibling and learning from him/her. 

I can relate to some aspects of the experiences described in the original link. It's a good thing that people are aware of it and efforts are made at the University level to address this. 

darn editor!