OT: Fallout at GBW Over Coaching Search Reporting
I'm going to preemptively apologize if this topic is too OT for the board, but it's at least tangetially related to the coaching search (or at least to reporting about the coaching search).
As many of you probably know Sam Webb over at GBW made a decision this weekend to limit the amount of infomration being provided on the coaching search. Going forward all coaching search reporting will be vetted and approved by Sam. This specifically effects Tom Beaver, who's updates have completely stopped.
Not suprisingly this did not sit well with a large number of GBW members, and it has resulted in all sorts of drama, including charges of censorship and threats to quit.
What I'd like to know is how many GBW members actually followed through on their threats to cancel there subscriptions? I did, but did anyone else?
As an aside, I'm posting this question here instead of on GBW because I'm fairly sure the mods over there would lock and delete it almost immediately.
Edited to add a running tally for those interested.
Cancelations (as of 7:00 EST): 3
December 8th, 2014 at 4:52 PM ^
December 8th, 2014 at 6:55 PM ^
December 8th, 2014 at 4:52 PM ^
People have their feelings about Tom, but he was giving customers what they wanted.
December 8th, 2014 at 4:58 PM ^
Tom and Sam have some of the same sources. They let Sam know they weren't happy about Tom posting some of his info.
December 8th, 2014 at 8:51 PM ^
End of rant. Move along.
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December 8th, 2014 at 4:57 PM ^
December 8th, 2014 at 5:02 PM ^
No, I'm posting it here because I doubt they'd let me survey members to find out how many canceled.
December 8th, 2014 at 5:25 PM ^
I didn't read a single one of the 5,000 threads over there.
I read this one.
December 8th, 2014 at 6:53 PM ^
Clever user name, arch and witty avatar and all that, could you be a little less fucking condescending at least some of the time?
December 8th, 2014 at 4:54 PM ^
December 8th, 2014 at 4:59 PM ^
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December 8th, 2014 at 4:59 PM ^
December 8th, 2014 at 5:04 PM ^
behind his back. He knows too much, and is being forced to act out to keep the smoke out there or be cut off.
He needs a long vacation when this is done.
There seems like a lot of odd silence in general between the echo chamber reporting.
December 8th, 2014 at 5:05 PM ^
The funny thing about all of this, is Tom has been living in Texas, California, and Oregon for the past ten years. Tom gets his second hand info from many of the so called insiders on his site (lifetimers who love self glorification by announcing they know someone in the program). Back in 2010 he actually banned one of the best information sharing posters on his board. Beaver claimed it was due to misinformation, turns out it was this guy witnessed Rich Rod dress down an equipment manager while at practice, and Beaver was scolded for letting that info reach subscribers.
It is also ironic considering Beaver went on a banning spree back in 2010 with the Rich Rod fallout.
This instance is no different. Beaver shares second hand info that is leeched onto by the members, and they end up sharing his posts on twitter, facebook, here, etc. Sam works closely with Michigan's athletic department, when misinformation is shared on Sams board, not Beavers, well you can imagine how ticked the athletic department gets. That is a pure guess, but pretty sure that is what is happening.
This is truly commical, most of the posters are pissed because they "want to be entertained" and don't want truthful information.
December 8th, 2014 at 5:15 PM ^
December 8th, 2014 at 5:25 PM ^
I agree, I'm sure this has to do with Sam's reputation as a journalist. And that leads to the real question that I think is behind all the drama: Is a message board better off when any information presented is held to a journalistic standard?
December 8th, 2014 at 6:02 PM ^
There is a reason only front page info is shared by the mods on this site. You can't just let the inmates run the asylum and expect it to copestetic. That has been what's been happening at GBW for years. Several members who are self proclaimed insiders get to say whatever they want, have no actual sources, at least not any they have to cite, and anyone who questions the integrity of the post is banned. It is quite commical actually.
December 8th, 2014 at 6:09 PM ^
Historically I've missed most of the drama over there (I'm a reader and only post rarely), but because this happened in the middle of a coaching search that I've been following obsessively I saw the crazy up close. Something tells me if I had witnessed it earlier I wouldn't have stayed a subscriber as long as I did.
December 8th, 2014 at 7:51 PM ^
the current state of affairs has brought out the worst in everyone.
That is generally a good board, and peakevoice's attack on people like IaBlue and OMC is misguided and an attempt to go after people he can't really handle one on one.
I would agree that there have undoubtedly been unfair bannings there in the past, but Tom is mercurial, and those verdicts were usually overturnable once tempers cooled.
The ugly is at an all-time high there because the ugly is at an all-time high.
People who left bemoaning what the board "had become" are/were kidding themselves. Blame Dave Brandon and Brady Hoke, because it's on them. It's all about what Michigan Football has/had become, and nothing more.
There's only so many years of frustration people can take before we all start to act out of turn now and then. It's just human nature, and I'm sure I've been guilty of it from time to time. And btw, I know this sounds odd, but trust me, I'm one of the posters you are pretty fond of over there, lol.
December 8th, 2014 at 6:11 PM ^
December 8th, 2014 at 6:26 PM ^
That's exactly what's going on. I really feel for Sam, because he's in a very difficult situation. Does he listen to the paying customers and let Beaver off the leash, risking his journalistic reputation? Or does he protect his reputation and muzzle Beaver, angering his paying customers?
Personaly I think it depends what Scout's long term plan is. Are they trying to turn into a legitimate journalistic site, or are they going to continue to rely on message board rumor and innuendo to hook subscribers? If it's the latter they should never have hired a journalist to run the site. If it's the former the current turmoil is inevitable, and they'll just have to wait it out.
December 8th, 2014 at 7:17 PM ^
As with many things in life, it's also about how you go about things.
Same action, different execution, you get it. And if there's one thing we all are familiar with at this point, it's bad execution.
Sam has taken a very high handed, above it all approach to many people over the past few years.
A lot of that is undoubtedly due to the frustration of dealing with everyone's frustrations.
But he's lost a lot of goodwill by being disrespectful and short with people.
Think of it this way - if this exact same event took place three years ago, do you think people would be reacting to Sam the way that they are? I don't think so.
December 8th, 2014 at 7:24 PM ^
Honestly, I don't think the reaction would have been that different three years ago.
I think Sam's action is being viewed as taking something away from everyone. That what he has taken away may be of dubious value does not matter. Generally people react poorly to having something taken away. Whether it actually leads to a mass exodus from the site remains to be seen, but if the results of this informal survey are in anyway accurate I would guess no.
December 8th, 2014 at 7:28 PM ^
that's just my opinion, and it could be because I've found Sam uncomfortably personal and unprofessional at times, and the Sam I used to know never broke form.
But that may be more an issue for me and less of an issue for the people making the noise. I'm staying out of it and waiting to see what shakes out.
Now some people there are just all about Tom, and those people are certainly reacting the way you describe.
December 8th, 2014 at 6:46 PM ^
so he's literally phoning it in.
December 8th, 2014 at 7:06 PM ^
that's funny, now I also know where your info comes from. That was interesting.
Some of what you're saying here is valid, but the message board give and take is about much more than just being told what people like to hear.
Frankly, Tom was on the other side of that equation with I think Brandon and Hoke, and certainly with Brandon (his posts were frustratingly contrarian, which is another one of his personalities).
So you're not entirely accurate, either.
December 8th, 2014 at 5:05 PM ^
I got banned for questioning another poster's statement that John Wangler and 2 1990s era players were personally involved in undermining Rodriguez.
I asked if there was any, you know, evidence to support that and then my access to the site was revoked.
At least that's a good way to avoid dealing with the hassle of cancelling.
December 8th, 2014 at 5:16 PM ^
Danimal!!! What's up buddy, long time.
Good story, last week an actual former player questioned Beaver about claiming to have info about Lloyd undermining Rich Rod. Said he saw it with his own two eyes. The poster, who is a former player mind you, said funny thing is, I haven't seen you at any of the practices I was at when these supposed instances occured. What happened? Instant site ban.
Now his followers demand justice. Hilarious.
December 8th, 2014 at 7:08 PM ^
My understanding is that you get your posting privileges revoked, but then you're still stuck paying for the site until you cancel?
December 8th, 2014 at 5:09 PM ^
Than pay for Sports Opinions
December 8th, 2014 at 5:13 PM ^
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December 8th, 2014 at 5:27 PM ^
Don't get too excited, this is supposedly only with respect to the coaching search.
December 8th, 2014 at 5:14 PM ^
December 8th, 2014 at 5:18 PM ^
December 8th, 2014 at 5:22 PM ^
the internet is the worst
December 8th, 2014 at 5:24 PM ^
Sam and Tom both do this equally.
They would obviously have a lot more information (about recruiting, coaching changes in the past or no info at all, but then claim they couldn't say more at risk of undermining their sources.
So of course even paying subscribers wait like every body else. Or they would let a little info trickle out, or use some cryptic language they thought was cute, but was just hokey (NTH) and dumb. And then they'd joke about how funny that all was, but that they really couldn't say any more at the time for things that weren't really that substantial, like walk-on getting a scholarship. Just annoying as fuck after a while.
I understand this all now, but I didn't back then.
It's really the only and obvious business model when you have nothing else meaningful to sell.
When I got to annoyed, I decided to make a contrarian comment that got me banned from making comments at GBW. I did not ask to be reinstated because WTF and why?
December 8th, 2014 at 5:26 PM ^
I think GBMWolverine spawned from the last fallout with The Beav
the one time I visited they spent their time ripping on all other sites including this one
Beaver was the guy back in the Victors Valiant days...not so much now I suppose. I haven't been on other sites for years now
December 8th, 2014 at 6:42 PM ^
Honestly that's the one thing that bothers me about GBMW, which in most other ways I've found superior to the pay sites (not just because of the price, either.) A couple of the big dogs over there spend too much time complaining about other sites, and although I can understand some of it to a point (the feud with Beaver is obviously always going to be central to their existing at all,) picking on MGBlog doesn't even make sense. Of all the sites to be mad at, this one pisses you off?
December 8th, 2014 at 5:26 PM ^
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December 8th, 2014 at 5:29 PM ^
I don't have a GBW subscription, but I will say that I can't imagine having to moderate a pay site, especially in a situation like this where outrage over something could affect revenue and you do have something rather tangible to protect. That's not to say moderating here doesn't do something similar, but the business model - from what I can see - allows for a greater variety of discussion. I could be wrong, but that's the sense I get.
December 8th, 2014 at 5:31 PM ^
MGoBlog is the only place I go for up to the minute Michigan sports. If it's not on the front page, it'll be on the message boards.
Never felt a need to go anywhere else, and I'm not planning on it. No offense to the people over at GBW.
December 8th, 2014 at 5:35 PM ^
Maybe that information is true? If so, that would be awesome
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December 8th, 2014 at 5:39 PM ^
risked a reprisal of the Herbstreit-Miles effect.
December 8th, 2014 at 5:40 PM ^
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December 8th, 2014 at 5:38 PM ^
December 8th, 2014 at 5:36 PM ^
mostly as a business mistake, I guess. Why tell folks you've decided to handle it that way? Just handle that change in house and present your content.
Amazing that those places pay boards are more toxic and less prone to reasoned discourse than this free one. But they are.
December 8th, 2014 at 5:53 PM ^
I agree, that is an interesting question. Based on how it went down (one of Tom's posts was unpinned and deleted shortly after it had been posted, followed by a short post from Sam on the changes) it seems like something about that post pissed Sam off. Making business decisions based off of emotion is never a good idea.