...water is wet, the sky is blue.
Tennessee is not recruiting well just because they got 18 dudes
...water is wet, the sky is blue.
what you're saying is that even if we do lose on sept 1st, in five years it will be a win (or at least a non-loss) anyway?
Even if Alabama vacates the win, we keep the loss. The official game if Alabama wins and then vacats will be Bama 0-0 and Michigan 0-1.
If Alabama is convicted of a Pay for Play scandal, the very thread that holds College Football together would unravel.
CFB would cease to exist as we know it.
If 'Bama was convicted of that, the NCAA would quickly find a way to say its ok to start paying players. The NCAA can not afford to have another program go down.
This argument is losing some of its persuasiveness with me. The NCAA hasn't been able to land a punch on every recently accused program (e.g., Auburn), but when it has, it has hit pretty damn hard (e.g., Penn State, USC, and I'd argue OSU). And it's not like these are mid-level programs.
Lets not include Penn State here, since we are discussing the NCAA enforcing their rules. We have seen in the past, that without subpeona power or a Freeh report falling from the sky, the NCAA is quite bad at doing their job: enforcing the rules that ensure competitive balance. See UNC or UM (YTM) for example.
I also don't quite buy this story. They have alot of built in advantages at Alabama: Top head coach, schoo built around football, great facilities, winning tradition, rapid fan base, etc. I think they could have built what they have now with just those advantages. Maybe some players are being paid by boosters, but that is a far cry from saying Saban is employing a wide spread pay practice to win with his direct knowledge.
Does SEC speed applies to all of Alabama (rapid fan base?) Or maybe you meant rabid?
HA...I guess the B1G is screwed if the SEC fans are both rapid and rabid.
Dang, I know people around here complain about the students not gettting to the game on time, but I didn't realize that was costing us recruits.
There is no reason to think the NCAA is not going to come down hard on YTM. They have extended their investigation, not ended it That is not a good thing for Miami.
Alabama has a built in disadvantage as well, a big time conference rival in their own backyard that is quite willing to outbid them for talent.
All those are valid points, but so do other schools in the SEC and beyond. USC has at least as many advantages as Alabama does, and they were found to have paid at least one high-profile player, and there has always been talk about other illegal activities going on there.
And Saban is a smart guy, so yeah I doubt he is directly paying players, but he's also a head coach who wants to win, which means he's not above looking the other way and blessing these practices indirectly. As we learned with OSU, PSU, USC, Miami, etc., there is a wide spectrum of official and unofficial actions coaches can take to support illegal causes.
Alabama wasn't very good from about 1994 to 2007
Yup. College football fans seem to have really short memories.
Now that the NCAA has changed their standard of evidence, and have shown that they can really lay the hammer down if there is something in it for them, it's time for them to prove that they can actually punish those who cheat.
I want them to revisit ten years of cheating at Ohio State, but taking down Bama would be a great place to start, too. Also, the NCAA has shown that they are capable of acting in two weeks without even doing their own investigation. It would be nice if they decided to show this kind of urgency with Bama.
It could make the game a bit less daunting if a team that cheated to get personnel that is superior to everyone in the country suddenly had some of their players ineligible, or many transferred out.
Changing sports, I wouldn't mind them heading down to Lexington and finding out how John Calipari is getting all of his one and dones.
The speed of which the NCAA punished Penn State was based solely on the uniqueness of what happened there for so long. Nothing like that with such powerful people in charge had ever happened before, at least to our knowledge. That's why it was considered a "special situation," in which the NCAA could act quick.
While I have no doubt that programs like Ohio State and Alabama are full out cheaters, anything the NCAA could investigate them for would go back to taking a snail's pace before a wrist slap could be handed to them.
Most popular team in the country just had tattoo gate.
Second most popular team in the country just had practice gate.
Third most popular team in the country just had chomogate.
You think #8 having a scandal is going to bring the whole system down?
Alabama has vacated more wins than any program in CFB. They historically get into trouble every 10-15 years, just like UK basketball. It's not if Bama gets into trouble with the NCAA, it's when.
In other news why isn't Auburn under sanctions and why does Cam Newton still have his Heisman?
Because Cam had no idea that his dad was pimping him out.
I can see it now uh sorry guys I didn't know it was illegal to pay players....Okay...I'll stop.
Only a matter of time before that ship epicly starts to sink same said for Kentucky basketball
I've always had the belief that the reason Urban quit Florida wasn't because he had health issues, it was because he was dirty and he was dirty because he had to be to win in the SEC. The top programs in the SEC are all dirty.
He realized that he could eventually be caught and that would put an end to his future multi-million dollar salaries not to mention ruin the image he had established. He decided to move to another conference where he could continue coaching and earn his millions without having to resort to cheating.
uhh I'd bet he hasnt changed at all....He quit because he is an ra-tard and the next years team was awful.
Seriously? We're better here than quoting The Hangover and calling other coaches dumb names.
Like OMG guys come on!
It was half hearted....Calm down killer..
There's also the whole Co-Ed mistress thing. Just a rumor but a widely held belief down south
Afford a new house, a $60,000+ car, taking care of 2 kids, a girlfriend, his mother, himself, and $1,000+ suits, all on a college student's salary?
Could you elaborate on those statements? I am not trying to be rude, but I am genuinely interested in where this information is coming from. Unless I am completely clueless . . . and missed something over the past year . . . which isn't impossible. Thanks.
If you click it you get a shock to your dignity. Fair warning.
Let's be clear here...Cindrich is not some lackey without a history as an agent. The guy has been a high profile agent for a long time and has represented significant names in significant negotiations.
Probably, the guy dislikes Saban and took an opportunity to mock him and diminish his accomplishments (and that of Alabama). That doesn't make what he is saying untrue.
While State College burns it's not like there are not other centres of impropriety in the NCAA (Tuscaloosa comes to mind).
I heard Cindrich give a presentation at my school last year. Very interesting guy, had some great stories to tell. He was asked a question about about both Nick Saban and Urban Meyer and responded very negatively. He didn't elaborate much more than saying that they were both huge hypocrites, but I think one of his biggest issues with them, and other college coaches, was that they were restricting agents' access to the players unless the agents would offer kickbacks to the coaches.
Wish RDT was here to give us his perspective....
Logged into the wrong account. Damn it!
I can't +1 you from my phone, but you deserve it...
I think thats an overstatement. Im not one to see the world as full of rainbows and unicorns but i think there are plenty of people who would turn down cash if they were a top recruit. The money will come someday, and some people are more concerned with integrity than others. If it was something like having a meal on the house or something I'd say a lot more people would slip up but taking a paycheck is pretty obviously a shady deal.
taking a paycheck is pretty obviously a shady deal.
Surely this is a cash-only business? Jacksons in a handshake, services in lieu, maybe at most a pre-loaded Colonial Bancshares debit card? Call me naive but a paper trail as obvious and easily traced as a check doesn't seem like the way to go no matter how intent the authorities are on looking the other way.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure college athletes in this situation aren't filing income taxes on their earnings.
If that's the case, I wonder what Auburn agreed to pay Reuben Foster to decommit from Alabama, and what LSU arranged for Andy Dodd. Lots of negotiations taking place.
Grizzly Adams did have beard.
This may give me a reason to listen to the Paul Finebaulm show for more than a minute on my drive home from work.
Is preparing for Treadwelll...
"Pay for play accusations always raise eyebrows, even though they've become fairly commonplace. Will this go anywhere? Until Cindrich offers specifics, likely not."
These would have to be some rather significant specifics too if Cindrich is essentially accusing a coach of being the signing authority on paychecks, but I will admit, part of me would like to see exactly what he has on Nick, if anything (a copy of Trent Richardson's W-2 would be a good start, yes?). He certainly doesn't offer much at all in the actual interview - here. The interviewers sort of let Cindrich control the flow of topics and buy into what is at best rambling equivocation by Cindrich as well.
I'm all for "Competitive Advantages."
Interesting and also great timing right before the big one. Curious to see how it plays out, although I won't get my hopes up.
I doubt Saban would make the same mistakes of having emails and evidence lying around.
You mean like Pat Dye's pants?
Yes but if you don't recall Michigan had some players that were a little upset when Rich Rod was here and that led to an NCAA investigation.
For what it's worth, (Admittedly not much on a chat board), I know someone very in the know at Auburn.
He told me that the Cam Newton investigation uncovered a broad based pay for play network that was impossible to address and punish. Not only was/is it a "too big to fail" situation that would have brought down the SEC, but most of the cash payments were so indirect, that they were next to impossible to track down.
An entire layer of free agency exists, with representatives arranging cash payments to players relatives and friends, and keeping a percentage for themselves. It's basically a semipro league.
At the end of the investigation, they decided to inform the offenders behind closed doors that they were putting the entire SEC and their Universities at risk, and that they better be more careful.
Everyone so informed laughed in their faces.
Like you, I've heard the rumormongering for years. But the things my friend told me went beyond even what I suspected. A systemic conspiracy exists to do nothing, and keep the money flowing.
These rumors and accusations have been flying around for a long time. I have no idea if they're true or not.
I hope Michigan is doing things the right way. In my gut, I believe it is.
But the SEC doesn't live in a vacuum. Coaches with experience at big-time SEC programs move to other programs.
Our DC, Mattison, was the DC at Florida. Our OC Borges was OC at Auburn. They are setting the recruiting world on fire. They're amazing recruiters. They're getting top players. Are they paying them, or are they just very, very good at what they do?
People say the SEC's recruiting tactics are dirty, but these are the same guys.
Believing that Michigan recruits the right way, I have to believe that some accusations against the SEC - not all - stem from a certain amount of frustration over the SEC's strengths in the past decade or so.
As I said, I have no idea if the claims made in the link about Saban are true or not.
I'm pretty sure he's the only coach on the staff that doesn't recruit off campus. I like him as a coach, but highly doubt he is an amazing recruiter.
I have to ask: did your "in the know" friend know if any of this ties to Colonial Bank or Bobby Lowder?
For professional reasons I won't bore anyone with I followed that whole Colonial/Taylor Bean saga pretty closely. Finding out that two important but, I thought, completely disconnected pieces of my life might not be disconnected at all was...disconcerting? And fascinating.
BlueMarrow, you know someone who is in the know at Auburn? Hmmmm.....Auburn is in Alabama.....RollDamnTiger, is that you again?
prevatt33, I wouldn't worry about what Saban is or isn't alledgedly doing. He has a smoke screen roughly 800 miles, by 500 miles, and consists of 13 other teams to blend in with. When in the south, do as the southerners do!!
...every school in the SEC cheats more than others.
We all know Vanderbilt's reasonably clean.
prevatt, reasons 1-2, and 5 are invalid because they're probably too close to call. I agree with 3-4 and 8, but I'd move the huge from 3 to 4. As for 6, cheating breeds success pretty damn good.
So oversigning doesn't make your top 8 reasons list and is below all those things?
So ..where was everything on this list before 2005? I guess everything on this list wasn't there a decade ago when the SEC wasn't winning squat. The rise of the SEC almost directly coencides with the rise of Alabama and Auburn. Auburn has already been proven to be paying..many people think bama is also, myself included. Save that list for a board with people dumb enough to believe anything on it.
SEC will never get seriously punished unless they went PSU, NCAA is a joke and always will be.
Itslike in Three and Out when Denard or Devin is talking about the SEC offering money, why not call them out in public? You'd think there'd bea Shane Morris type who'd secretly record.offers he gets.
I don't think Shane is that type. He loves everybody. Nobody sees anything or says anything until they're caught red-handed.
Methinks you could have thought that through a little better.
Nobody likes a snitch and where I'm from they end up in a vacant.
/ Chris and Snooped
Do you happen to be from Juarez, Mr. Bandito?
This is common sense, but would hurt the NCAA too much if the SEC conference was shut down. Too much money and way more power than the big ten has. The SEC controls everything in the NCAA and it looks like they always will.
Accusations have been made many times. Accusations are only backed by a claim that "get 'em on the stand, they'll talk." Methinks this is NOTHING.
Do some schools pay recruits/players? Sure. Yes, I guarentee it. The imporant thing to do is to hammer the blatant ones (SMU or M under Ellerbee, for instance), which will ensure that other schools don't get too brazen about it. After that... There's not a ton you can do but hope that proper culture wins out.
I really don't think Michigan pays players unless Hoke knows nothing about it. I just cannot see him approving of that. But again, no point in worrying. I do think that saban and some of the others probably pay something, but I think they'd be successful even if they didn't, so unless they're forking over 50K at a time for recruits, I'm not going to lose any sleep.
I rarely defend Brian Ellerbe, but he wasn't guilty of paying players, SMU-style. He just couldn't keep them away from Ed Martin (who, by this time, had been banned from association with the school).
I lived in South Quad two years, I am sure other people on this board lived on campus and we all have different stories of interactions with athletes (or watched them pull up in new cars dressed in expensive clothes). Any one who knows anyone knows that players get paid everywhere.
The hard part comes in the fact that most of the time they are getting paid, or benefits of some sort, not from the school and not from boosters/whatnot. I large percentage of the time it is just random people or fans, so what can you do?
If it's really not anyone associated with the school, not an employee, a booster or anyone with even a semi-formal relationship, then that's really not against any rules. You can't stop someone from just randomly giving someone else money because they like them.
Barry Henthorn had no connection to the University of Michigan as far as I know; certainly none was suggested when the NCAA leveled its punishment.
If you could establish that someone had truly just randomly given money to the kid without even knowing he was a player, maybe. But receiving any benefit that you would not have received if you weren't an athlete is a violation, no matter who provides it.
You are making some huge assumptions here.
Ever think that all players did not come from nothing? I know one football player who drove around in a porsche... his parents were loaded. Not to mention some player's parents saved for college, and when that account was no longer needed due to scholarship, that money was spent on a nice car and clothes.
This doesn't just apply to football or basketball either. It is even more prevelant in lesser sports as well.
PS players are paid... the university gives them money every month for living expenses, rent, food, etc. if you are on full scholarship. This check is around 1200$. Live off campus for around 500$ a month, you can pocket the rest.
That's what I figure for most of the players. I mean, people seem to expect them to be dirt poor. For every kid that was raised destitute and only learned to play thanks to a local donor that paid for equipment, there are probably three that come from a middle class family that put money away for college.
it is what it is. You can put your head in the sand or you can admit that players recieve improper benefits all of the time. Do they all? No way. But players do. I did note that when i lived at South Quad we all saw the cars that football players drove and assumed that there had to be something behind all of the nice rides.
I didn't even say anything about the socioeconmicstatus of the players; I just said that players recieving cash and benefits is the rule and not the exception throughout the NCAA.
I think this is common knowledge. You can neg my post or whatever makes you feel better, but that is just another example of the fascist minority on this page... which is another arguement for another day anyway...
I just gave you the reasons why most of the guys drove "nice" cars. Not to mention if you are pocketing $700+ a month in unused living expense money and want a car, why not go get a lease for $300 a month?
You don't seem to know what "making assumptions" means. In this case, it's the rickety bridge between you seeing players' cars and telling us how they paid for them.
It's very easy to neg your post without being part of a fascist minority, btw.
1.) I hate how when people get negged you have to click on it to read. that is a formatting issue and I guess I should just be glad to have somewhere free to post and recieve information.
2.) This is my fault because I know players who were paid but I didn't want to get into it: the next question is who, the answer is 'I am not telling you', and the information becomes irellevant.
3.) I should just stick to this simple assertion: it is my assumption that players are given cash or other benefits at most NCAA schools. I don't think all players accept the money or benefits, especially the players who will make it to the show (why risk it?). If you don't believe in my assumption, so be it.
My impression is that Saban isn't the type of coach to initiate or perpetuate anything that is blatantly against NCAA rules. In fact, I'd guess he actively tries to stop that sort of thing. He is a famously focused person who is intent on "The Process," which is necessarily a long-term method of achieving his goals. Paying players, to me, takes the exact opposite approach by potentially compromising the future for immediate success.
Instead, he's the type of coach who exploits every loophole available to him, but does it within the rules. He oversigns, engages in seriously creative "roster management" techniques, and there are some awful stories about him being callous towards players as human beings (stepping over a convulsing Dolphins player). He seems more like the type the NCAA is always trying to reign in when he finds something new to give him an When he wanted to talk face-to-face with recruits, but rules didn't allow it them to come to him, he started Skyping with them--resulting in an NCAA prohibition.
There's a lot not to like about Saban, but I really think isn't willing to jeopardize his success by paying players. If one kid/booster relationship gets out of hand, things could fall apart quickly and I don't think he's willing to let that happen.
There is only one thing to do: Find out for ourselves.
Step 1: We need to have the most studly young member of the board breed with the hottest, most athletic woman he can find and have a child. Ok, Step 1 is done.
Step 2: Raise that child from birth to be a future 5* CFB recruit. That's step 2. Easy so far.
Step 3: Have your child be recruited by the SEC and keep track of who offers what $$$. Video, or it does not count.
Step 4: Report back to the blog. We'll be waiting.
OK, who's first?
Who was the kid back in the day who chose San Diego state over us and reported that girls wanted to have sex with him on our campus?
anybody remember him?
If Bama did not generate so much money for the sport, they would have been killed yrs. ago. Hell, they have a 10K deposit on a certain RB in Florida who's pop was just recently released from prison, is the rumor on the streets...The NCAA simply does not care
and remain a fan of college football. Someone tell me all the sports are corrupt, then maybe I can continue to watch. Or maybe after Denard graduates I'll take up carpentry.