OT: Dismantling of the Blackhawks has begun.
Byfuglien, Sopel, Eager on the way out. Does it end there?
After winning the cup they get rid of their best agitating power forward, and not to be too Wings centric, but also probably the guy the Wings have the most problem matching up against? And he's a playoff hero? Wow... I would've thought he'd be as protected as Draper on the Wings was/is....
Byfuglien is the one guy i saw as a possible difference maker against us in the playoffs - big hitting/scoring agitator. And we thought Pavelski was tough, he ain't $hit compared to Buff.
However as questionable of a move this is, i would not count out the hawks brain trust (aka Scotty Bowman) on this. He's proven himself before after making many trades deemed questionable at the time.
Buff turns it on during the playoffs, but is largely absent during the regular season. I like the guy and wish him well, especially owing to his background, but this was the right offseason move.
Completely agree. He was a fan favorite in Chicago, but because of his post-season play his value is as high as it's ever going to be. The Blackhawks were smart to trade him now and get maximum value.
Prediction: Byfuglien has a less-than-stellar stint in Atlanta.
Too bad, so sad...
they don't really have a choice. that teams has cereal salary cap problems.
when you lose your quality 2nd and 3rd line forwards as opposed to 3rd and 4th line forwards, you go from Future-Red-Wings-Like-Dynasty to 'Hello Tampa Bay Lightning'.... how those Lightning doing keeping Lecavalier and St Louis but dumping Richards?
They lost one top 2-line forward. The others were a 4th line forward/goon and a defender who, frankly, was pretty clearly overpaid relative to his contributions (Sopel makes 2.35 million next year).
It's actually a pretty solid package in return for Byfuglien (the obvious key to the trade from Atlanta's end) and replaceables. A first, a second, and a forward prospect who was a 1.5 PPG guy in juniors last year. Tough to replace a big body like Buff, but between this and the inevitable burying of Huet in the minors (taking his salary off the cap), this means they can resign Niemi and Hammer and hold onto Sharp and Versteeg. I'm not sure how many other moves besides burying Huet they actually need to make now.
They can't keep both. With $4 mil in bonus overages carrying over to next year's cap, the Hawks will definitely have to move one or both of Versteeg and Sharp, as well as Huet.
I started this post by saying "I think you are spot on," then I looked at the numbers again and I'm not so sure. Even with burying Huet, I think the Hawks are still in a tough spot cap wise.
With Huet's 5.6 cleared up, signing Hjalmarsson at 3 and Niemi at 5, which I think are best case scenarios, only leaves the Hawks with 3 mil to sign 8 players. The league min will be .525 mil next year, it doesn't add up. This assumes the rumor about the 58.8 mil cap is true.
In my opinion, I think the Hawks will let Hjalmarsson go and earmark the money for Seabrook, who is going to demand another 4 mil at the end of this coming season. In the mean time, that buys the Hawks a little breathing room to fill their roster.
This following commentary is unfair, but cap aside, this was a terrible trade for the Hawks. They picked up a *late* first and a *late* second. Anyone they draft is likely years away from contributing, let alone developing into a player of Byfuglien's mold and caliber.
For any other team, this might be a terrible trade. When you're in salary cap hell like the Blackhawks and everyone knows that you MUST shed salary, to field any decent offers which consist of first and second round picks is impressive.
This was a long time coming.
This is why I don't like the salary cap. A team wins the cup and they have to immediately let go of good players.
I am all for any system that emulates as best as possible the NFL in regards to parity and competitiveness. That being said as much as Big Buff was a fan favorite and had a great playoff run this is the optimal time to move him as he will soon be far beyond his return for investment. I will put my trust in Scotty Bowman and Rocky Wirtz and the Hawks before all said and done will have a reasonable chance to repeat.
The reason that they have to let go of good players is they over paid for half ass ones. Campbell at $7.14mil for the next five years and Huet at $5.625 for next year. That is 21.4% of the 2010-2011 cap number tied up in just those two. Then when you throw in the the $4mil cap hit that Toews and Kane's maxed out bonuses count against the 2010-11 cap, you will understand that rhese issues are not the caps' fault, they are management's fault.
They're going to move Huet down to the AHL so his $5.625 mil won't count against the cap. People liked the Campbell signing initially because he was an established player, but now I agree his salary is hurting us. The thing that really hurt the Hawks though was last year messing up with the restricted free agent offer sheets. Not sure how much cap room they lost with that, but I do know they overpaid Versteeg a couple mil because of it.
This is why I don't like the salary cap. A team wins the cup and they have to immediately let go of good players.
Ironically, it's only because of the salary cap that Chicago was able to sign Hossa away from Detroit.
Funny that Chicago fans weren't complaining about the cap last summer....
Alanta got swindled. Here is Chicago, absolutely pressed to the cap and they give up a 1st, 2nd, and a capable 3rd liner for Buff? Buff had a great playoffs, but he's lazy, doesn't play defense, and is very streaky. Aliu is talented, but he's an absolute headcase. Sopel is a 5/6 on any team but Atlanta, where he's probably 3/4. This is why Atlanta will never be good.
a little taste of the Red Wings dilemma......they will be back down to earth next year........good for them though that they won a cup.....
This is actually a great trade for the Blackhawks. They were forced to make a move and they got a huge return. They basically got as much for Byfuglien as the Hawks did for Kovalchuk from the Devils.
Don't tell me that Chicago won't miss sopel and eager.
Eager? Are you serious? I mean, I'd rather have Burish go, but I will not miss Eager and his dumbass penalties. I'll miss Sopel for blocking shots and being a class guy and wonderful person, but he made a lot of stupid mistakes on defense.
Chicago traded away players on contracts that aren't unreasonable. Naw, unless they can unearth a few gems with their new picks, this is a definite downgrade for chi.
Sopel was putting 2.33 against the Cap and wasn't even matched with Brian Campbell. That is unreasonable. And they received a first, second, and the Thrasher's second round pick from 2009.
Sopel is definitely a class guy this week!
http://outofbounds.nbcsports.com/2010/06/post-609.html.php
(and yes, that is the same Sobotka family tree)
Sopel was a shot blocking machine and good on the PK, but he was overpaid relative to his contributions. Eager will not be missed--there are plenty of people who can step into a 4th line "energy/instigator" role. Buff was streaky, he'd show up for a game, then dissapear for four or five. I also wonder if he can replicate the success he had in Chicago without Toews and Kane...the Blackhawks sold high on him. In my (slightly biased) opinion, the Blackhawks did VERY well in this trade. It's funny: if you read 'hawks blogs, they're convinced that after this deal, they're sitting pretty good--but here, most people are saying the sky (in Chicago) is falling. The "truth" is likely somewhere in between.
Buff was streaky, he'd show up for a game, then dissapear for four or five. I also wonder if he can replicate the success he had in Chicago without Toews and Kane...
He can't, he won't. He won't be very good in Atlanta (who is?). But as streaky and lazy as Byfuglien could be, he was a fan favorite. That suddenly everyone in Chicago is saying "good riddence" is disingenuous.
if you read 'hawks blogs, they're convinced that after this deal, they're sitting pretty good
Not sure if you realize this, but this is how Chicago fans are about all of their teams... except maybe for the Cubs.
It depends on which fans you're talking to. A lot of the "new" Blackhawks fans (started following the team in '07 or '08) are new to hockey too--they don't know a lot about the game, strategy, etc. They're going to be the ones who miss Buff the most, as all they know about the game is what they hear from asshats like Pierre McGuire. They're the same people who afraid of what big, bad, Dan Carcillo would bring in game 2... Don't get me wrong: fans with a more critical understanding of the game will miss him too, but not as much as you would think. I might not be the first person to say this, but I'm sure I won't be the last: Troy Brouwer is a younger and more consistent power forward than Buyfuglien. Personally. what I'll miss most about Buyfuglien are the ways he'd mess with Bobby Lu's head. Nothing better than seeing that overrated baby cry... Well, that, and the way he pretty much owned Vancouver in general.
Yes, I am aware of the mentality of Chicago sports fans--I was born and raised in Chicago. I left after college, but visit family and friends there frequently. I think every teams fanbase is guilty of homerism to some extent (unless, you're a self and team loathing Cub fan like me). The point I was trying to make is this was a very smart move by the Blackhawks, and while it won't solve all their problems, it will go a long way in addressing their cap issues.
They were forced to make a move and they got a huge return
All depends on who they draft and if they can develop the players. Chicago's track record isn't real great on this front.
On the current roster, the top players they drafted and developed are Toews, Kane, and Keith... and two of those guys were NHL-ready on draft day.
So yeah, they got some extra draft picks, but they have to make the most of them to call it "huge". If you follow the NHL, you know that's far from guaranteed.
Obviously it will depend on who they draft, but they weren't going to get an exceptionally talented NHL ready player on an entry level deal which they could afford for Buff et al. They have to shed salary. So they can either trade 1st liners making 3+ million for 4th liners making league minimum, or they can attempt to get high draft picks which have the potential to be 1st/2nd liners. The latter is preferable, and this is the route they took. They got a first and a second. What else could you want?
They got a first and a second. What else could you want?
I don't "want" anything. I understand they can only trade for draft picks and prospects because those are the only assets that won't count towards a cap. Just pointing out that the Blackhawks' end of the deal is "potentially huge", not definitively huge.
Bottom line: Atlanta knows what they got in the deal. Chicago has a "mystery bag". And for a team that doesn't have a great draft history outside of the top 15 picks, the odds are against them.
What they will get in the draft is a mystery, but they did get some known quantities too. The Morin kid, while young (19), averaged just shy of 1.5 ppg in the OHL. Whether or not this translates into NHL talent--who knows. It certainly isn't a bad start though (he was ATL's second round pick last year). Marty Reasoner will be a cheap(er) replacement for John Madden at 4th line center.
For their circumstances, good deal. Big Buff got a lot of media hype in the playoffs, mainly because he was huge against Luongo and the Canucks. He's a great player and I hate to lose him, but he was at his highest value right now, played great in the playoffs. He also benefited a lot from having Kane and Toews on his line, anyone who plays with them is going to get a lot of open opportunities, and he capitalized on him. Eager was a good bruiser to have on the 4th line. Sopel really stepped up in the playoffs, played consistently but not spectacularly. He made a lot of bonehead plays in the regular season though. Hopefully they'll keep Sharp though, people really underrate him but he's as good of a 2nd liner as you're gonna get, and a great locker room guy.
take a look at the hawks record without campbell. he is a key player. probably the best player at gaining the zone after hossa. guy doesn't put up huge numbers but the hawks lose when he isn't on the ice.
he makes about $4 mil too much.
He is overpaid, but the 'hawks offense was stagnant without him.
is having a lot of lower cost assets - without those you are stuck with your players. Look at Minnesota. Dug Riseborough traded all their draft picks and they were basically hamstrung in the trade market. Now they will be looking to move Josh Harding and Brent Burns because they have no other assets.
It was a good move for the Hawks who had to move salary despite the sentimental attachment and playoff contributions of Bfugylien.
I wouldn't exactly say they're pulling a Florida Marlins. More like a shuffling of contracts. After a 49 year drought, moving some role players isn't the biggest worry since the core will be kept in tact. Winning the cup a few times over the careers of Kane/Toews/Keith would be the goal, not a five-peat. The Wings have proven to be the model of success nowadays, not the Oilers or Islanders of the 80s.
I love the "great trade" spin to it. Had Chicago not had salary cap issues, believe Sopel and Buff stay on the team. They made this trade because they had to and built their team to win last year, which they did. Some experts think they'll be one and done because of the cap, others think they with their core they wont be.
As a Wings fan and seeing how salary cap is handled...I'd have to agree with the ones that say one and done.
Go Wings!
... make that much of a difference IMO, i am hawks fan. sopel is nothing i think he had 2 goals this year and his D was shaky, eager was a big checker but you can find those guys anywhere. buff was one of my favorites but he wasnt a star during the season, because he can't do what he did in the playoffs during the regular season. maybe a few other players go; versteeg or sharp, but it all depends on the money. conn smythe hurt, it's great toews won it, but the 1.2 million bonus he got for it goes against the cap. im not sure about the norris trophy but that might be the same thing and we might be looking at a bigger hole
Cap problems.