well that's just, like, your opinion, man
OT: Did the wins breaking a streak like MSU or OSU bring closure to you?
The only thing that will bring me closure is a B1G Championship. 9 years ago was the last one. That is unacceptable.
And even that 2004 season was a drag. Lost two rivalry games and the Rose Bowl in heartbreaking fashion.
Beating a bead horse, but my god Rich Rodriguez was so damn worthless.
I think, by now, that everyone agrees Rich Rod was not the right man for the job. But what you say is untrue, unneccessary, and unbecoming.
Not really a big-picture guy, are you?
Yeah, the cultural fit couldn't have been any worse (nor, likely, the defense), but *worthless* isn't on-the-mark.
Rich's lack of defense made him the wrong coach for success in this conference, although he's certainly done better than I expected in the Pac 12, which has proven to be a pretty tough conference over the years.
Hoke may indeed be a better fit, but I wouldn't call an 8-5 campaign all that much more masterful than Rich's 7-6 in 2010, especially considering the improved talent level.
Give credit where it's due - Rich wasn't that bad, and had very good offensive game plans. The current staff has done poorly on offense, and the team wasn't much better in the results department, despite a greatly improved defense. And no running game other than Denard? I can't even begin to think about that.
Based on last year, this is still an incomplete system.
In case we needed any additional proof that some people can't see straight when it comes to RichRod, here's a Bolivia'd guy with at least 4 upvotes for his crude post.
Rich Rod brought us Denard. If nothing else, that's worth something.
If I were a mod I wouldn't send you Bolivian but force you to change your handle and avatar. You don't deserve either.
If we had beat osu in 2007 we would've won the title outright, but we scored 3 points.
Thanks in large part to Henne and Hart barely being able to walk.
But I feel the pain of no big ten title in 9 years. That's our longest drought since the 1950s. In the mid 90s when we went 4 straight years without a conference title (1993-1996) I remember that felt like an eternity. So you can just imagine what this current drought feels like.
As I get older, I tend to do less looking back, at least at sporting events, win or lose. I look at a win after several losses in a row more as an opportunity for beginning a win streak than as some kind of closure for ending a losing streak.
Exactly. It's not closure at all. If MSU wins this year, it's going to be 5 out of 6, not "oh, you beat us last year so everything was reset."
There have been a number of "signs" that Hoke was the right guy to right the ship. The first was beating ND in 2011, the second was beating OSU in 2011, the third was winning the Sugar Bowl, the fourth was beating MSU last year. Those two wins (MSU and OSU) were huge signals that we are taking steps forward and are important to not only our players, but our fanbase to believe we can return to what we once were...basically a prennial B1G power that is expected to contend for the title every year. Beating both of those teams was a huge relief to not just believe we could, but to know it. I think we will beat MSU on the road and win 2 consecutive wins that says a lot because based on recruiting it will only get worse for MSU. But, beating OSU in Columbus...man that has been a long time. When is the last time that happened, like '03? I think like Navarre/Perry/Edwards if I'm not mistaken. Man, that was a long time ago. That would be a real signal that we are ready to contend now.
'03 was in Michigan. The last time Michigan won at OSU was in 2000.
I pulled a rapture guy after the win against OSU. I cheered and partied after beating MSU. It brought me a fair bit of closure.
But that Big Ten Championship, man. Get it.
has quite a pair of man-boobs,
I would have to say that the wins help (more with my sense of the program than anything), but I would like to think that it is more in the fact that the recruiting is going extremely well and on a consistent upward trend over the past couple years now, but also that the program is well-managed and in good hands with Hoke and his staff.
The potential for some sustained success again against rivals like MSU and OSU is more attractive than merely the first win which breaks a losing streak. The foundation that is being laid for a very bright future is a major portion of any "closure", which is probably hard to find in football really.
That being said, a win in Columbus would definitely be a psychological boost and an excellent benchmark for what seems to be building. Also, as others have said, the Big Ten Championship (actually, more than many things, this).
For me, with the constant barrage of grief I take from the large number of Spartan in-laws, the win vs MSU really helped bring me close to a sense of closure. Which I understand is a stupid thing to say. Not because I'm talking about Staee, but "closure", in and of itself, is complete. But as you're saying, LSA, it's our trajectory that creates the sense of comfort for what the program is doing. We're back and we aren't going anywhere for a long time. Even when we lose, we seem to be getting better, IMO.
But as many of you have said, it's the B1G title and Rose Bowl. I'll probably get a little emotional the next time I see us run out on the field in Pasadena. Hopefully that will be this season.
If I do however, it will come after Sparty is broken like a ship on the rocks, tsio is soundly beaten in the horsecollar, and a Big Ten championship trophy is lifted by a victorious Michigan team.
I don't like the concept of this thread. Closure? To quote a wise man, "This is Michigan fergodsake!" To think of closure is to think of the past and I'm sure the team and staff think the same way that looking to the future is all that is important, the past is passed. The future is a B1G title and all will be well when that goal is met.
Too elaborate on this, I grew up with Michigan football through the 90's and then into the early 2000's. a Big Ten title wasn't a hope for type of thing, it was expected. Those days will be here again soon enough.
I'm with ya. I was born in 1988, and I never even considered the possiblity that Michigan would lose to Ohio State more than once every now and then or not be in contention for the conference title. I didn't understand why it was such a rivalry until we started losing a little more frequently.
Exactly. The satisfaction is short lived. You have to win year to year to feel comfortable, although a healthy rivalry is always more fun to watch than lopsided streaks on either side.
I think I could handle us beating Ohio nine years in a row. That probably wouldn't bother me one bit.
because I was starting to seriously worry about us falling behind permanently. Good start for Hoke.
Beating MSU was just a relief so all the MSU trolls could finally STFU (all MSU fans become trolls when discussing Michigan)
We need to win the national title again. Our 1997 rings are getting rusty.
I feel we have to win both of those games this year for there to be any sort of "closure". If we lose to either of them this year our win against them will feel more like a fluke than anything else.
We have, HAVE TO beat both of them this year on our way to a B1G championship. Closure will be beating OSU two weeks in a row.
That will most likely not happen. We are undoubtedly on the upswing, but I think it will take one more year to really be on a similar or even superior talent level.
The game last year was pretty evenly matched...
Should feel like beating Minnesota. It should be expected and no surprise when we do win. Winning on a last second FG this past season didn't give me a feeling of satisfaction. I want a no doubts beatdown. I want that this year in the worst way to right the ship in my own mind.
Beating msu last year was a relief. Beating osu in 2011 was a cause for celebration as it always should be.
That's the way it was for the better part of 30 years when we played MSU at home, double digit victories about 90% of the time. Hoke is working to get us back to that.
Love Hoke. I rooted hard for RR but defense was so ugly and fan base was ugly too. Just glad that we are mostly on the same page with our coaches (as fans) now. He is bringing pride and toughness back and I like where we are heading. Love the kind of kids he is recruiting and can't wait to see Gardner kick ass in Borgess' offense. I think we are going to out perform the analysts' predictions. I have moved on.
I was at both of those games and they were phenomenal. But when you consider how bad each opponent was at the time, and the fact that we barely beat them, it feels very fluky. So no, it didn't bring any closure, and until we beat one of those teams when they're ranked top 20, I don't know that it will.
I will have closure when we win the National Championship. This program will never be nationally respected until that happens.
Or at the very least beats a very good SEC team.
I hate the whole of this thread. Closure? Closure of what...10 years of Ohio cheating and getting the fcuk away with it? Three years of coaching and recruiting that was just not appropriate at Michigan? Four years of Sparty running their mouths when, for the first time in most of their lives, they could name a time when they had consistent success against Michigan?
Closure? To hell with that.
The only thing that brings thoughts of closure is knowing that this thing Hoke is building...that light at the end of the tunnel...that's the god damned train.
OSU turning a blind eye didn't have anything to do with them kicking Michigan's ass all through the 2000s. Even in 2001 and 2004 when Michigan was a much better team they still kicked our ass.
Salt in the wound
I think that it will take back-to-back wins against Sparty to right that ship. If MSU wins this year, then that will be five out of six and Michigan will have not really accomplished anything in that respect. Things will not be back to "normal". It's a little different with OSU. I can handle losing to them occasionally and accept that there will be ebbs and flows in the rivalry (M was something like 10-2-1 against OSU in the Cooper years). I really can't handle losing to MSU.
There will always be unresolved closure for me regarding the OSU losing streak stretch.
I grew up a die-hard fan, dreamed of attending a Michigan-Ohio State game as a college student, worked my tail off in high school with the sole motivation of watching one of those games as a student, and miraculously found myself living that Michigan dream from 2006-2010. Alas, I watched Michigan lose to Ohio State four timess during my college tenure - in person for three of them. After that last one, I sat in the stadium for what seemed like hours, pondering my ill fortune and also where the time had went. It was a hard dose of reality never seeing Michigan beat Ohio State during my college years, something that seemed to carry meaning beyond the sports world.
MSU no, OSU yes, mostly because my family (all swear allegiance to the Enemy) and I were hollering at the TV en masse for the entire game, with an obvious split. I watched the 2012 M-OSU game embedded in Block O South with the students, but I'll never do that again! The club section isn't too bad. I recommend Hawaiian shirts for maximum confusion.
No, I what them to return the favor and start there own winning steaks against State and Ohio.
My first ever game at the Big House was The Game in '11. I then went to the Sugar Bowl. Those wins plus getting the MSU monkey off our backs felt great, but they are just steps in the process to becoming something better. I won't truly be happy until we win a B1G championship and are doing it with regularity. I really think we have the staff in place to get us there. Exciting times.
Sounds to me like you need to go to every game...
My UM fandom stretches almost 40 years. These wins didn't bring closure but are just short-term battles in the ongoing struggle of Good vs. Evil.
Closure? There won't be any closure until Sparty fans are reminded of who they really are and stop tossing out phrases like 4 out of 5 (reference to their record against us the last 5 years) as if it didnt take the biggest collapse in Michigan football history to do it. We have to humble them at least another 3 years. Winning twice in EL will help. Far as Ohio goes, im a long way from closure about that losing streak as well. We are going to have to start winning much more frequently to get that bad taste out of our mouths
We could beat them ten times in a row, and all it takes is one loss to hate them again. So long as we keep playing, how can there be closure? There's always another battle on the horizon.
We don't need no stinking closure!
2011 was incomplete only because of the state yr. And, I know many will laugh because our team was no where near ready for it....but consider the fact that they were literally a couple plays from being undefeated..........Iowa was quite literally 2 plays... and Msu was the same, quite literally a couple plays..........
None of us would have thought they were ready but...from my perspective at that time it let me put the burden down of the RR era..
Also, I carry nothing from 2004 - 2006 I really didn't. From 2007 though, it felt like an eternity...like being on the ship going down and you can't fix it.....you know you have a life raft and will be fine but you can't fix it.............that was 2007-2010 for me...............
...but I'll answer the question in the title.
For similar, but different reasons.
MSU - We own them, and we always should. I don't refer to them as "little brother," but that's what I think they are. Period. They should never win more than 3 times in a decade. Hell, they shouldn't win at all, but that's probably not realistic. Until we roll off 4-5 straight I won't be satisfied. No mercy.
Ohio - I've looked at their run in 2 different ways...in one, they just plain dominated us. But two, it was filled with lies and scandal, which makes me somewhat dismiss it. I don't feel like Michigan won, or Ohio didn't...it just takes some of the sting off that a normal loss to Ohio would have. That said, the Hoke era is a completely new era for me. Hoke needs to win his era. I'd like for him to be at LEAST +2 by the time he leaves Michigan. I'd obviously, prefer something like 10-5. Well, I'd prefer he be 14-1, but I'm trying to be realistic.