OT: Did Gores Back the Pistons Into a Corner?
http://www.pistonpowered.com/2014/01/tom-gores-sent-pistons-spiraling-toward-the-disaster-zone/
Dan Feldman (a very underrated NBA writer), makes the claim that Gores backed his team into a corner with his statement that the Pistons "better make the playoffs.”
I rarely ever present a thread with comment, but for this one I have to add a few thoughts.
One: When the Pistons signed Josh Smith, I said right away that it was a very large mistake for a rebuilding team to make. I am of the school of thought that says unless that guy makes you a title contender, don't sign him. While the Pistons signed Smith to a decently cap friendly deal, it was clear to anyone who bothered to look, that Smith simply didn't fit the Pistons lineup as currently constructed. He provides great athleticism and defense, but when you are starting two centers in your lineup, you need someone who stretches the floor, and provides a more consistent, and applicable scoring option. Not a guy who consistently proves that he has no idea what a quality possession looks like.
Two: Why trade Ben Gordon when rebuilding? This, by far, is the dumbest thing Joe Dumars has ever done. Was Ben Gordon a part of the big picture for the Pistons? Of course not, but it made far more sense to just let his contract run out. Especially when one considers the price to get out of that contract was to mortage your 1st round pick in what is widely considered to be the best draft in a decade. Essenetially, Dumars got out of a contract that was slightly more than the mid level in exchange for a chance to land a difference maker. Because truth be told, there are 8-10 difference makers in the upcoming draft. I don't just blame Dumars for this, I blame Gores. Placing a playoffs mandate for this franchise was largely ignorant, and showed just how inexperienced he is at owning a professional franchise.
Three: You can't rebuild and compete at the same time, you just can't. This is the single biggest issue that NBA GM's get wrong year in and year out. If you're going to rebuild, FUCKING rebuild, the fans will understand. You have two great pieces in Drummond, and Monroe. Granted they don't fit together all that well, but finding out they couldn't coexist could've been accomplished by just letting the process play out. At that point, you could then likely trade Monroe for a piece that better fits with Drummond, and been much further along. Now, you've got 4 more years of Josh Smith, and are committed to Brandon Jennings, and neither player are great pieces to pair with Drummond. Just rebuild, commit to it and fucking rebuild the correct way. Instead you've created a cluster fuck roster with no discernable direction, and pieces that don't fit together.
Lastly, Maurice Cheeks is a TERRIBLE NBA level coach. He was a terrible hire then, and he's an even worse hire now. He can't handle line up changes, and he has no idea how to handle late game situations. As Phil Jackson is fond of saying, the first indicator of a bad team, is one that makes the same mistakes over and over, and shows no sign that they even understand what those mistakes are. All this being said, It's time for Dumars to go, he has no idea how to compete in today's NBA.
Sorry for my long winded rant.
January 27th, 2014 at 11:35 AM ^
January 27th, 2014 at 11:40 AM ^
It was a very large mistake, but not his biggest. There are some franchise type guys in ths draft, and missing out on the opportunity to draft one to get out of Ben Gordon's contract far out weighs missing out on Trey Burke. No slight to Burke, I named my dog after the guy.
January 27th, 2014 at 12:56 PM ^
+1 for you. Good thing you didn't have a daughter.
January 27th, 2014 at 3:24 PM ^
My wife and I went with the middle name "Blue" for our daughter, and she happened to be born on Bo's birthday as well.
January 27th, 2014 at 11:46 AM ^
January 27th, 2014 at 11:56 AM ^
there is much to criticize Dumars for, but the Darko meme is highly exaggerated. Darko was second on most boards that draft--he was Dirk with more upside--he was the trendy pick. Darko had very real upside--he just never found it--in fact, he arguably regressed. Gordon and Villanueva on the other hand...
January 27th, 2014 at 3:59 PM ^
Carmelo Anthony was second on pretty much everybody's board except that of Joe Dumars.
January 27th, 2014 at 4:31 PM ^
There are several sources then, and srticles now that say most GM's would've taken Darko at 2.
January 27th, 2014 at 12:29 PM ^
Darko was a top-3 talent when he entered the draft. Honestly, after LeBron the conversations was if it would be Melo or Darko, and LOTS of people prefered Darko. Just because he didn't pan out doesn't mean he was a bad pick. Darko wasn't Bowie or Oden, who had injury histories that should have set off warning flares. At best, Darko was a Michael Olawakandi-type pick - potential based on limited competition. Those picks happen.
Dumars screwed up most by wasting money on Gordon and Charlie V and (due in large part to the change in ownership delays) not getting rid of them early on. Josh Smith is an idiot, but his teams typically make the playoffs. If the goal is to win now, it wasn't a horrible pick-up.
January 27th, 2014 at 6:41 PM ^
Isn't working for that team now, is he? "Those picks happen" is usually the thing the GM says as he is kicked out the door. How has Dumars survived?
"Lots of people" preferring one thing doesn't make them right, especially in sports. Ask Vegas.
If he didn't want Melo, he could still have "reached" with Wade or Bosh. Now he has messed up another draft of a decade by not having a pick anymore!
January 28th, 2014 at 12:49 AM ^
January 27th, 2014 at 11:39 AM ^
January 27th, 2014 at 11:43 AM ^
Agreed, but there were more than a handful of GM's that would've taken Darko at number 2. I remember David Aldridge reporting that the day after the draft. Teams were in love with him after his workouts; he was viewed as a hybrid of Garnett and Nowitzki.
January 27th, 2014 at 11:42 AM ^
Ultimatums are almost always stupid because you are saying that you are going to ignore all context and Process(tm) and focus only on the results. It was especially dumb in this case. In the NBA, you either want to be really good or really bad. sneaking in the playoffs as a 8 seed isn't going to do any good.
January 27th, 2014 at 11:42 AM ^
January 27th, 2014 at 11:44 AM ^
Long wined rant?
My wife says beer's what sets mine off.
January 27th, 2014 at 11:45 AM ^
The Smith-Monroe-Drummond lineup has been one of the worst in the entire NBA this year.
January 27th, 2014 at 11:45 AM ^
January 27th, 2014 at 11:46 AM ^
Well, as a strong Pistons fan you're entitled to a little wine. Those red wine hangovers are a bitch, though.
January 27th, 2014 at 11:50 AM ^
I would have posted the same thing in this situation.
January 27th, 2014 at 11:46 AM ^
That's what it sounds like.
Gores wanted to win now, and Joe Dumars wants keep his job, so he listens to the owner and tries to win now. So he tries to make this team better by the trade for Jennings and the "big signing" of Josh Smith (lol).
It didn't work. It wasn't ever going to work. The Pistons are a middle of the pack team at best. That's not how to win in the NBA. If you can't get a gigantic free agent signing (which Josh Smith was not), then you have to suck for a while, get the good draft picks, and then draft well to get your future good players.
Unless the Pistons are content with being a middle of the road team with ZERO shot of winning a title, some serious changes have to be made.
January 27th, 2014 at 11:47 AM ^
January 27th, 2014 at 11:59 AM ^
January 27th, 2014 at 12:01 PM ^
January 28th, 2014 at 12:54 AM ^
January 27th, 2014 at 12:06 PM ^
January 27th, 2014 at 12:11 PM ^
January 27th, 2014 at 1:17 PM ^
Joe D has done well in recent years. Landed Monroe, Drummond, Singler, and Stuckey. Granted Stuckey was overpaid and wasn't used correctly, but Stuckey has done well as a 6th man. Saying he sucks at draft is false.
January 27th, 2014 at 1:29 PM ^
January 27th, 2014 at 1:56 PM ^
is a contributor and had a strong year this year. He's not bad given his role. Singler is a contributor and a solid player especially when you consider he's a 2nd rounder.
January 27th, 2014 at 1:40 PM ^
January 27th, 2014 at 1:55 PM ^
Delfino is still in the NBA as a contributor so it's a good pick by Joe D. Way to call a rookie a bust before he finishes his season.
He landed Affalo, Amir Johnson, Delfino, Tayshaun, Okur to go with Monroe, Drummond, Stuckey and Singler. You can say the same for every GM and their draft record would look terrible. Joe D isn't that bad. He's above average in fact.
January 27th, 2014 at 2:33 PM ^
January 27th, 2014 at 12:41 PM ^
This is patently absurd. I don't think he's worth 2.5BB by holding grudges and refusing to do what is the best based on a college rivalry.
January 27th, 2014 at 1:16 PM ^
It may be a stretch but I dont think it's all that far fetched. I mean business history is littered with the corpses of businesses who've crossed the wrong Richie Rich type. Hell Job's went all "nuclear" on Samsung just for shits and giggles. Seems plausible that if they would have drafted Burke, then he would have been the face of the franchise and Gores simply didnt like that idea very much.
January 28th, 2014 at 1:12 AM ^
Especially when, if you don't like Gores, there is plenty to criticize him about. Like rushing on the floor after a preseason game, or not letting Dumars use the amnesty on Gordon.
I'm not sure if anyone has reported that, but there is NO WAY Dumars was dumb enough to trade a first rounder to dump a contract, if he could wipe it clean off the cap with the amnesty, unless the owner told him to do so.
January 27th, 2014 at 12:18 PM ^
January 27th, 2014 at 12:25 PM ^
January 27th, 2014 at 12:36 PM ^
Man - If you substituted the names Grant for Dumars, Gilbert for Gores and Brown for Cheeks you just wrote the Cleveland Cavaliers season summary too.
We're facing the same problems from a leadership standpoint and have the same "sum is less than the parts" situation with the players. And we have argueable the worst overall #1 pick in league history occupying the end of our bench.
January 27th, 2014 at 12:44 PM ^
January 27th, 2014 at 12:48 PM ^
It's time for the Pistons and Joe D. to part ways (from an employee/employer standpoint). Sure he has made some great moves over the years, but also some brain dead ones. I think the Pistons franchise could use some new perspective in that chair of the organization.
January 27th, 2014 at 12:54 PM ^
My Nuggets are such a crazy team, and unless their top pick is in the lottery this year (they get the highest pick between theirs and the Knick's pick, so the odds are good) AND they can pull of a trade to get a more talented player and tighten up their rotation, they are going to be stuck in this weird position with a non-sensical roster for at least the next two seasons. I really, really wish the Nuggets would have begun their rebuilding process this year, especially with Gallo now out for the season. There is still some hope that Wilson Chandler and at least one of the JJ Hickson/Kenneth Faried "Defense optional (we choose 'no')" PF by committee is traded for.... something. Watching the Nuggets is essentially watching Ty Lawson and two really good benches make a functioning team.
January 27th, 2014 at 1:03 PM ^
The Pistons have got to be ranked near dead-last in team defense, right? It is a joke how many points they give up every game.
January 27th, 2014 at 1:11 PM ^
Yeah, fuck Al Gore! You see how cold and snowy it is???
Oh wait...Gore-s? Never heard of him.
January 27th, 2014 at 1:50 PM ^
That is exactly what I have been saying. Gores and dumars have built this team into a mid level loser. If a team wants to rebuild then need to be on the bottom of the league, or build through free agency. The pistons shot themselves in the foot by signing Smith. I would love it if they trade smith for a first rounder. The phoenix suns have been asking for a star, and by all definitions, Smith is a star for someone other than the pistons. They have 4 first rounders for next years draft, and unless the pistons start losing a lot, they will lose their first rounder to the bobcats for the stupid Gordon trade. Time to get rid of Dumars and start new. This team is to good, to rebuild, but to bad to be a contender.
January 27th, 2014 at 2:28 PM ^
Gores is awful.
1) He was too cheap to simply amensty Gordon.
2) He demanded Joe make the playoffs and put him under the gun. That's the stupidest thing an owner can do - create a GM desperate to win now, when a rebuild is required. Either back the guy long term, or let him go immediately.
January 28th, 2014 at 1:14 AM ^
A GM desperate for another year does incredibly dumb things. 4 years for Josh Smith? Why the fuck not, it's not like you'll have to deal with more than 1 if it doesn't work out.
January 27th, 2014 at 2:03 PM ^
I've been saying the same thing about the Gordon trade. I found it immediately infuriating due to the draft pick. What makes it worse is that this team, purportedly a playoff outfit, badly needs the outside shooting he provided. At least make the dumb trade with CV, who is worthless.
The one thing I disagree with is your praise of Feldman. I gave up on him years ago when he defended the CV and BG signings. Blaming Gores for demanding more out of Dumars is silly. He's just trying to seperate himself from the "fire dumars" masses - typical sportstalk take.
The frustrating thing is that Dumars has been bad for a very long time. Even when the team was winning he wasn't making particularly impressive moves. His last "chess move" was swapping Stackhouse for Hamilton and that was a looooong time ago.
January 27th, 2014 at 2:08 PM ^
Dumars lost me when he traded Billups for AI, and this is coming from someone who respects Iverson the player.
January 27th, 2014 at 3:33 PM ^