OT: Dennis Dodd visits with RichRod
There are just a couple of references to UMich in here (nothing particularly new), but some may find this interesting/entertaining:
April 19th, 2012 at 12:50 PM ^
I totally glossed over that. Jeebus indeed, don't they at least edit content?
The whole RR situation at Michigan kind of baffles me. I think people make it more complex than it really was. Obvisioully when someone totally foreign to the football program takes over after almost forty years of familiarity then there are going to be some trust issues. Winning would have helped, but he didn't do that often enough for a school like Michigan. He has to be one of the most unpopular coaches in the country. I just wonder if he stinks at AZ like he did at MI if he'll be a man like Brady Hoke and take the blame.
If nothing else, he probably learned to never play Josh Groban songs during his tearful speeches, and to ban stuffed animals from the sidelines.
I wish RR well, but I'll start acknowledging his role in last years success when he starts owning up to his mistakes.
Wow. That piece seems like Sarah Palin writing a book report on Ronald Reagan (yes, I used political figures, unbunch ye panties):
This is when how that unpretentiousness is meeting laidback.
The folks here still thinking lovingly of Rich, should give his quotes a few more reads. He seems like (shocking for a football coach) an egotistical, self-righteous asshole overly enamoured with his own amazingness. He fixed Michigan? He would've loved to walk into the situation he left behind? He still likes to believe that good people exist? Dude, either admit your faults or stop complaining about your time here.
It does have relevance as to what media narratives are spun. If he does well, his time at Michigan will be considered an anomaly and his victimhood will grow. If he does poorly, his time at Michigan will be viewed more and more as the result of his limitations and his victimhood will seem ridiculous.
Either outcome/narrative will mask the truth but one thing is certain: RichRod will continue to provide much fodder for this board and others to chew on.
When I started my coachin career my high school coach, the winningest coach in ohio high school history (bob lutz), said that if you only know how to coach one way, then sooner or later teams will figure out how to stop that one way and you are screwed.
Point being, RichRod knows only one way. He believes in his system over his players. You saw this year what great coaching does and adjusting your system to the personel that you have. Had Rich Rod got in a pro-style year number one and sat in a base 4-3, instead of moving to that shitty 3-3-5, we probably go 6-6 and all is well. Rather he tried putting in a spread with two guys running the offense that ran as fast as the fat man from "Jake and The Fat Man". You want to be successful over a long career, adjust your scheme to fit your talent. Bo did it, and it worked for him. This current staff did it. Rich Rod will never be an elite coach again, defenses know now how to defend the spread.
April 19th, 2012 at 10:03 AM ^
I'm not looking to get into a long debate about this, but I'll just say this. Staying as a pro-style offense in '08 wouldn't have turned that team into a 6-6 team. There's adjusting your system, but that works when you have good players in the system. That offense lost something like 10 starters from the year before and had Steven Threet and Nick Sheridan as QB. We were screwed either way
April 19th, 2012 at 10:11 AM ^
Some truth in this. A record of 6-6 might be a bit severe, but something in that ballpark.
Neither Threet or Sheridan were going to be All Americans. But they were serviceable QBs with Ryan Mallet in the wings. And I truly, honestly and thoroughly believe Mallet would have stayed had there been an effort to keep him and tailor the offense to his specific talents.
So yeah ... blame enough to pass around to Carr and Rodriguez.
That said, a 3-9 record was inexusable.
April 19th, 2012 at 10:57 AM ^
April 19th, 2012 at 12:21 PM ^
There was no way after Rich was hired that he was staying.
Is that a defense of Rodriguez? It sounds like you're agreeing about Rodriguez being inflexible. Perhaps there would have been a chance Mallett would stay if the coach weren't married to one offense.
We're basically saying the same thing. Rodriguez came here with a rep as a guy married to one offense. Nothing he's done since has changed that. If he didn't have this reputation, Mallett may have given him a chance.
BTW, if Mallett had stayed, Arrington may have, too. And obviously, Rodriguez had a big role in Boren's departure. We could have had four starters returning.
Mallett was efforted bt RR in a phone call. It is a fact that Mallett was preparing to transfer before Lloyd was gone. Mallett would have left Michigan had Lloyd stayed. I hate when people perpetuate inaccuracies. The more this is stated the more people belive it and it is simply not true. Mallett was gone no matter what.
How is it a fact that Mallett was going to transfer? That's hearsay.
April 19th, 2012 at 10:22 AM ^
Regardless of the talent and what system he ran on the offensive side of the ball there was enough good players on the defense to go .500. But he managed to screw that side of the ball right out of the gate. Yes, he couldn't get Casteel, but why hire Shafer? There's lots of other guys out there that coach the 3-3-5. At the time Rocky Long was looking for a job and he's considered to be the guy that made the 3-3-5 dangerous. Money wouldn't have been an issue either.
April 19th, 2012 at 12:25 PM ^
Michigan didn't implement the 3-3-5 in 2008 until the 9th game of the season against Purude. It was already a disaster at that point.
The moment Mallett was, well, Mallett, and Boren was a Boren. But while no one was going to mistake that defense for '97, there was some decent talent on that side of the ball, enough to at least field a mediocre team, and it was almost as bad as the offense. That was the problem.
That's because some of the "elite" players on that defense quit on the team. Like it or not there was a culture of entitlement on the Lloyd teams due to the whole senior thing. You work your ass off to get the senior treatment and those that were seniors when RR got hired felt entitled to that same treatment they had worked for. RR squashed all that and every position was open for the taking. No more front of the line for seniors, etc.
One of the reasons the transition is going so well for Brady is because these players have been through it and seen exactly what not to do. For proof that this is true just look at the antics from Justin Boren, Morgan Trent, etc. Those seniors quit on the team and the coach because there was a culture they thought they had earned that was taken from them right when they could have benefited from it.
Or it could be said that Brady didn't make it all about him, wasn't all about doing things his way, but made it about the Team, the players, and put the responsibility firmly in the seniors hands. So they not only felt valued, but responsible for the season and outcome. You treat a senior who has busted his butt like a freshman just because YOU'RE the new guy, yeah, that'll create resentment. You say "guys, this is your team, your last memory, we're going to do everything we can to win now, for you, and not make sure we're good 3 years down the road to do what's good for me as a coach"...and you get player reactions like my sig line. Maybe there's a reason that the players who were seniors, including a great many he recruited, when polled are as lukewarm about Rich as the players he inherited. You owe it to the team to build the best team possible every year, because while a coach may be around ten years or more, a player is only around for 4, maybe 5. And only gets one senior year. There's more to coaching than X and O's, and being a person manager is a bigger deal.
April 19th, 2012 at 10:09 AM ^
The spread is dead! Except that teams that run it continue to win and move the ball on all but the most elite of defenses.
April 19th, 2012 at 10:36 AM ^
I totally agree with everyone that Rich Rod needs to STFU about Michigan, and this comes from one of his staunchest supporters.
And yet...
1. The idea that "RichRod knows only one way" is absolutely laughable. Compare the Shaun King spread to the Denard QB iso.
2. The idea that he didn't adapt his system to his players is somewhat less laughable but still laughable. I posted this elsewhere and now can't find it, but essentially:
- In 2008 we ran the ball 57% of the time and in 2010 we ran it 70% of the time, an increase of 22% from 2008 to 2010.
- In 2008 the QBs ran the ball on 16% of the plays, compared to 36% in 2010, for an increase of 119%.
- In 2008 the QBs ran the ball on 29% of the rushing plays, compared to 51% in 2010, for an increase of 80%.
3. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but my memory is that we didn't play the 3-3-5 for most of the 2008 season, but switched to it during that disastrous Justin Siller Purdue game.
4. "Defenses now know how to defend the spread."
- Yes, Oregon, Houston, Okie State, Baylor, and Oklahoma had an awful lot of trouble moving the ball last year.
- Yes, our best plays came from running I-form power or play action last year, not shotgun read options with Denard or Fitz rushing.
5. Oy vey.
April 19th, 2012 at 11:35 AM ^
April 19th, 2012 at 11:52 AM ^
It's definitely possible to have percentages greater than 100 because he was citing an increase. Any quantity that more than doubles will increase by more than 100%.
</7th-grade math lesson>
Holy shit please make sure this lasts forever.
April 19th, 2012 at 11:36 AM ^
LEt me guess you watched every Tulane game so you are going to educate us all on his system. Rich Rod ran the same system at Clemson too before heading to WVU.
1. So when Rich Rod says he only knows one way, I guess that is laughable?
2. So what is your point? We couldn't run the football out of the spread with a pro-style OL and a pro-style RB and pro-style QB. You only further my point.
3. That is correct, and our defense went from serviceable to shit in two games after switching.
4. I said read option spread. Oregon and Houston run completly different spreads, as are Oklahoma, Baylor, and Okl St. They are all heavy pass first run second, while Oregon is a pretty healthy mix. As I said every offense has an eliment of the spread, but the run heavy offense with the QB and how to defend it is common knowledge now v when WVU was a well oiled machine.
5. Last year has nothing to do with his first season here.
1. I guess it depends on what you mean by "one way." But if you think the Shaun King Tulane offense was identical to the Denard Robinson Michigan offense, I don't know what to tell you. They are similar in some respects, but I wouldn't characterize them as "one way."
2. My point is that Rich Rod knew he couldn't run Threetidan on one-third of the plays or half of the rushing plays. So he didn't. He knew he could run Denard on one-third of the plays and half of the rushing plays. So he did. That is adapting your offense to your personnel. I get that he didn't adapt in the sense that most people mean.
3. Again, I guess it depends on your definition of "serviceable." I thought in your original post you were claiming that M played the 3-3-5 all year (maybe you weren't) and I was noting that they didn't.
4. Nowhere in the post that I was responding to did you say "read option spread." You said "defenses know now how to defend the spread." I was disagreeing with what you actually said, not what you might have meant.
5. "Oy vey" is a Yiddish expression of exasperation.
Yes, we did switch to the 3-3-5 for the ninth (!) game of the season against Purdue. That's exactly the point. For some reason, Rodriguez saw it fit to switch the defense, late in the season, to an exotic scheme that none of his players nor his defensive coordinator had any prior experience with. I don't need to remind anyone of the result of that decision.
The '08 Purdue 3-3-5 debacle was the result of a season-long power struggle between Shafer and Rodriguez, which Shafer lost. He left and went on to become a decent defensive coordinator at Syracuse. We (essentially) hired Syracuse's old defensive coordinator to replace Shafer, and our defense managed to get even worse.
As much as Rodriguez was a guru on offense, he was utterly clueless on defense. With Casteel on board, I don't expect that his Arizona defense will be as bad as his Michigan defense, but I don't see how anyone could observe the way our defense cratered from '08 to '10 and think that Rodriguez was ever going to get it right.
April 19th, 2012 at 10:16 AM ^
When you have brandon minor, you line up and give it to him in a pro-style. When 99% of your team knows the pro-style system, you get in a pro-style. We were a possession away from beating Utah, lost by a td to Purdue, and we all know about Toledo, that would have given us 6 wins right there. Sorry but I disaree.
April 19th, 2012 at 10:14 AM ^
Every team uses some eliments of the spread, it is not dead, but defending the read option is more common now then in 2005. Hence the reason when we played a team with a defense they beat us a like a drum for 3 years. Not to mention our defense.
April 19th, 2012 at 11:02 AM ^
April 19th, 2012 at 11:29 AM ^
April 19th, 2012 at 11:52 AM ^
First, I don't know why people bring up 2009 when they want to discuss Rodriguez. Let's pretend 2009 didn't happen. I'm not taking a side one way or another, but when the argument is 'IF he adapted better he could have maybe gone 6-6' ... who gives a shit? 2009 and especially 2010 were the seasons that mattered in evaluating Rodriguez.
Second, and somewhat related: Yes, Dennis. Michigan is so gosh darn pretentious that it wants to win more than seven games and rank in upper 50th percentile in team defense.
Fine, Third: Jesus, why can't I stop myself from commenting on these threads.
/Spanish Inquisitioned
April 19th, 2012 at 11:59 AM ^
All good points. I have the same problem, and I went from having like 300 points to -155 all because of one thread two seasons ago when having to discuss Rich Rod and being labeled "anti Rich Rod". Funny how perspectives change. I wish I could get back my points for essentially saying we needed to go in another direction.
April 19th, 2012 at 12:09 PM ^
"Fix The Defense".
If you take over a Lloyd Carr run team featuring people like Brandon Graham and three years later you announce you're almost finished fixing the defense, you royally screwed up somewhere in the process.
April 19th, 2012 at 12:32 PM ^
Also excellent points. Rich Rod took over a DL that featured Terrence Taylor, Brandon Graham, and Tim Jamision (two of which play in the NFL currently), and somehow screwed that all to hell. A secondary that featured two decent corners in Trent and Warren, and turned it into a laughing stock. Good times...
April 19th, 2012 at 12:33 PM ^
The team had one person like Brandon Graham. He somehow managed to be awesome, as he would have under just about any coach, because he is awesome at playing football.
The other people on the defense in Graham's senior year included three underclassmen starting on the d-line, Obi Ezeh at MLB, and two underclassmen (one a freshman walk-on) starting at safety because there was literally no one else on the roster to play those spots. That is the reason the defense sucked, and Rich Rodriguez wasn't in charge of recruiting from 2005-07 to create that situation.
If we had had "people" like Brandon Graham, this dumb debate wouldn't be continuing.
UM first defense under RIch Rod featured 6 players that played on Sundays, I am not feeling too bad for him.
I guess he wasn't responsible for the bazillion players that left either.
I'll put this here.... From Wikipedia
"At Michigan, he redshirted as a true freshman. Then, as a redshirt freshman for the 2007 Michigan Wolverines football team, he battled for the starting middle linebacker position and appeared to have lost the position early in the season. However, after an injury he became a regular starter. He concluded the season with thirteen and twelve tackle efforts against bitter rivals Michigan State and Ohio State, respectively. He started his redshirt sophomore season with a Big Ten Conference defensive player of the week, fifteen-tackle effort for the 2008 Michigan Wolverines football team. He finished the season as an honorable mention All-Big Ten Conference selection. Just after earning 2009 midseason Butkus Award watchlist recognition, he was removed from the starting lineup and saw limited action in the final four games."
He fell off the planet after RR took over, and I may be stating the obvious here, young football talent needs to be developed, this is usually accomplished by coaching young men up, not throwing them under the bus in the face of losses as RR often did.
How does someone go from midseason Butkus Award watchlist to part time player to wrap up the season?!?
Inquiring minds want to know....
April 19th, 2012 at 12:57 PM ^
This thread makes me long for the good ol' pro/con RR days, Lloyd's fault, etc. etc. (/s x10,000)
...and I knew where it would go before I even clicked on it.
Jebus, not this again.
Guy needs counseling. I feel bad for him that he isn't over the breakup yet.
Rich Rod continues to make excuses and blame others for his failure at Michigan. In his comments here, he indicates that Hoke "walked in to" a great situation that he created.
That is Bull Shit. RR "walked in" to the winningist program of all time, and one that had been to 33 straight bowl games...and ripped it down mostly due to his incompetence.
It is sickening to read his BS and excuses every time the subject is brought up. The guy is a first class tool.