OT- Defend Leyland
Defend Lloyd McClendon first.
Could you do better? Let me guess, yes you think you can do better!
Coke would have done better :)
Before today Zumaya has issued 9 walks in 36.1 innings. I'm not sure what else you want. Putting Zumaya in was not a bad move.\
Edit. Zumaya hadn't given up a homerun all year. That was his first.
putting him in....not a bad move
not taking him out when he walked 2 batters and was facing chipper jones who hits better vs right handers than left handers...... bad move that gave up the lead
Chipper has had trouble all year hitting fastballs. You saw him struggle a lot to hit Scherzer earlier because of that. I would have left him in.
No offense to your team/player, but Chipper hasn't been hitting fastballs for a few years now. He is still a darn good hitter, but if you are throwing 97+ at Chipper, you've got to like your chances.
But, I think are agree that leaving Zumaya in was the right call.
No offense taken. There is no way you have been more frustrated with Chipper than I have been the past year and a half. Minor quibble though, I think Chipper was hitting fastballs decently though in 08 when he won the batting title. It's just been the past year and a half that the struggles have really manifested.
It's really only been one year of struggling for Chipper. He tore it up for the first 2-3 months last year.
Yeah, OK. Put a less talented lefty in so that Chipper can hit righty, on which side Atlanta has a shorter power alley and Chipper's hit 2 HRs in half as many at bats as lefty, where he's also hit two. And he's hitting .265 as a righty, .250 as a lefty.
Further, the Twins are coming up. The less we burn up the bullpen, the better.
Leyland hasn't been that bad this year. My only real beef is the debacle in Seattle where Ryan Perry stayed in about 4 batters too long, after everyone in the state of Washington knew he didn't have it.
As for McClendon, on the other hand, I have no idea what the hell the game plan is when they go to the plate. Damon and Santiago basically gave their ABs away with Avila on 2nd last night. You know, we might have needed that run last night in a 2-1 loss. Oliver struck out in between, but he gets a pass, as he is a pitcher and it was his MLB debut.
There's been entirely too much of that this season, and last season as well, for that matter. I understand that some guys just aren't very good hitters (looking squarely at Gerald Laird in particular), but the approach to the at bats is sometimes nonsensical, and it's more than one hitter doing so.
I would also prefer to never see Gerald Laird hit 2nd in a major league lineup ever again.
The Tigers are 1(hopefully soon to be 1.5) games out of first place. Two of the pitchers they started the year with had to go down to Toledo. They went an extended stretch without Guillen. And they are ONE GAME OUT OF FIRST PLACE!
thank you for the informative update. any thoughts on leyland leaving zumaya in the game too long?
I meant if I were Leyland I would have left Zumaya in against a hitter that has trouble catching up to fastballs
you don't have to catch up to them when they're not over the plate
And the middle infield is so awful we have Ramón Santiago and Carlos Guillén starting. But nevermind facts, this is the internet so we get to have baseless opinion and get really pissed off about stuff. We should fire Leyland and stuff! Yeah!
You're right i'm totally off base being frustrated with a manager who is going to miss the playoffs for the 5th consecutive year and hasn't won our weak division once in 6 years.
Leyland is far far far from our only problem but he is definitely one of them. He can't mix up a line up, over-manages, and doesn't know how to handle his bullpen. Furthermore he has no doubt been ridiculously out-managed by Gardenhire in his time here. I don't know how big of a fan you are but for someone who is a big tigers fan it is ridiculously frustrating and hard to watch.
Am I living in a parallel universe where the Tigers won multiple divisions titles in the years preceding JIm Leyland taking over the job? A huge reason the Tigers have even been IN contention(winning a pennant mind you) is because of Leyland.
I'd attribute it more to verlander, ordonez, cabrera, edwin jackson last yr, guillen, placido polanco before this year, and a pretty solid pitching staff but hey thats just me. Leyland is an average manager at best
Leyland is an average manager at best
Would you rather have Lou Piniella? Or maybe Ozzie Guillen? Or whatever sad sack that is running the Royals or Pirates? Leyland is a very good manager. Unless you can come up with real arguments, you're now whining just to hear yourself whine.
he's average at best.
His .530 record with the Tigers suggests he is above average.
It also suggests that Cabrera is a darn good player. :)
did I miss the first three years of his stint in Detroit? Did I somehow overlook him on the AL pennant team in 06?
I mean, Cabby's a beast and all and he's my favorite Tiger (not named JV) but to say that he's the reason Leland has an above average winning pct as a manager is pretty ignorant.
Wait, did you just name 2 position players and 2 pitchers and say that is the reason we were in contention last year? And then go on to name 2 position players as the reason we were in contention the year before? I don't know if I have ever seen that argument before. You know who isn't a good coach....Ron Gardenhire. The only reason the Twins are in contention is because of Mauer and Morneau. Gardenhire is average because I attribute their success to those 2 players. Look, I get you didn't like his one decision to leave in Zumaya after 2 walks when he had pitched amazing all year as he will probably make the all star team, but you look extremely uninformed right now.
It's baseball you fool. You can't win every game. There will be off days. Stressing out about every little thing that goes wrong is not way to be a baseball fan. You enjoy the ride. You take the good with the bad. And when your team is only a few games out of 1st place BEFORE THE ALL STAR BREAK, you can't complain about much.
This team is not going to make the playoffs everyone knows that. I'm not even that upset about the loss I just am once again baffled by Leyland's managing; no stress here.
Also, saying random things such as "you can't win every game" that have nothing to do with anything I have said make your point a lot better. Keep up the good work
This team is not going to make the playoffs everyone knows that.
Wow, I must have missed that memo. Leyland took a peice of trash team to a one game playoff for the AL central last year. Why are you writting them off IN JUNE?!
They have also scored a whopping 2 runs this series. The pitching is the least of our worries this weekend.
Folks, this is an 85-win ballclub, max. Not good enough for the postseason, from what I see. Better years are ahead in the near future, but just not yet.
I think Coke has pitched quite a bit lately. I can understand why they would hesitate using him. And I'm not a Fu Te Ni fan, either.
with the way Leyland uses his relievers. My only beef with him is his inability to rearrange a lineup when he rests a regular starter. He's subbed Don Kelly and Ryan Raburn for Austin Jackson, and left both of them hitting leadoff. Those guys should be at or near the bottom of the order. Mix it up Leyland! You don't manage in the NL anymore.
I'm not saying I agree with how Leyland sets lineups, but his reasons are that he doesn't want to mess around with where everyone hits if one guy is out. So if you are used to batting 6th, you are going to bat 6th no matter if the guy batting 2nd has a day off or not. I can see his logic since baseball has a large mental component.
If you want to blow Leyland out, bring me 3 names to replace him that 1) are readily available, 2) would be willing to take this job, and 3) would be an honest-to-goodness upgrade. I want 3 names because you don't always get your first choice, and there are two other managerial job openings available at this given moment (although one of them is Baltimore, and not even Casey Stengel is going to make that stink smell sweet).
Also, this isn't baseball. Category switched to the appropriate "other".
Jesus, did you watch the previous 15 years BEFORE Leyland arrived? I go back to when Enos Cabell was our 1st baseman, Richie Hebner played 3rd, and Jerry Udjur was in the rotation. They're just now getting the farm system back on its feet from 25 years of piss-poor drafting. This takes time. The free agent signings basically patched over the huge holes the previous management (Randy Smith and Co.) left in the organization. Leyland took over basically 3 years removed from the 1962 Mets.
Mix in some perspective.
Sadly, BW730, I suspect that Chipper is done, today's homer not withstanding.
BW730, I'd prefer NOT to discuss the years directly preceeding Leyland's time in Detroit :)
A pretty solid pitching staff? You mean the one where we've already dispatched of our #5 starter and sent 2 others to Toledo during various parts of the season? We're making this rotation happen with smoke and mirrors and some duct tape.
Again. This is a transition year. 2011 and 2012 are going to be brighter. I knew that in late March. Dombrowski is still rebuilding. Remember, the only thing DD had in the farm system when he arrived was Curtis Granderson. Brandon Inge was our future catcher, our double play combo was Damion Easley-Deivi Cruz, and Chris Truby was in there somewhere. People were calling WDFN bitching because we might trade Bobby Higginson. Jason Johnson, Brian Moehler and Mike Maroth were in our rotation. Oh, and Robert Fick and Jeff Weaver were dropping N-bombs and brawling at the Hockeytown Cafe. And those are the highlights of what we had.
And for shits and giggles, we were playing Shane Halter at every field position in one game, because we had nothing better to do.
Transition year, it's alright I guess. Damn I miss the pitching from 2006...and gum time.
you gotta admit, Guillen's post-game pressers would be must-see TV. ;)
I was there for the Halter game. Last day of the regular season in 2000. *shakes head*
I can't defend the fact that the first thing that comes up when you google 'Jim Leyland' in Google Image Search is this:
he just pinch hit gerald laird... nuff said
Yeah, for a guy who's 0-for-3 today! I thought you wanted him to take people out who are struggling. And Avila's a lefty, Laird's a righty.
And oh look, Laird walked in a run.
difference being that laird can't hit; coke CAN pitch... luckily this guy can't throw a strike
Yes, he drew a walk and got an rbi. Do you feel like an asshole now?
not at all, why would you ever pinch hit a guy who is batting .140?
I dunno, for the same reason you leave in Zumaya instead of Coke: he's playing much better lately than the guy you subbed out and the lefty-righty matchup is favorable? Seriously, your managerial ideas suck.
Just admit that Leyland knows how to manage a team please.
After watching him piss away the last two weeks of last season, nothing you say will ever make me admit that. Yeah, I'm still bitter.
I think I can stop screaming in my living room now. I was just waiting for him to take a rip on 3-and-0.
Funny enough I just started screaming about the fact that the Braves pitchers mysteriously forgot how to throw a strike.
Maybe you guys should put Phil Coke in?
Dude....stop. Nothing good is going to come of this.
Wow. That was ball four. I bet it was Leyland's fault!
At least he came out to argue and defend his player... oh wait....
Just stop. You are getting close to 'neg on sight' territory here.
lol! congratulations on being part of the 0.5% of the population that cares what their "mgopoint total" is at.
also i'm going to need a new username anyway when denard robinson is leading us to victory after victory this year.
Good luck with the new username.
THAT WAS FUCKING DOGSHIT!!
Johnny Damon's asshole hurts after that one. Had that one been in the dirt, chalk would have flown from the batter's box.
Well that's frustrating. Gary Cederstrom just bailed Moylan out like what...not even close to the plate! That's just a turrible call.
Ha... I guess disregard this entire topic because until the MLB installs a replay system the sport is not even close to being legitimate. Second time this month the Tigers have been absolutely robbed.
First Joyce fucks Galarraga out of a perfecto, now Cederstrom fucks us out of a 9th inning.
If there was ever a place for a Carlos Zambrano blow-up, that might have been it.
but if you don't hit the ball and score runs momentum don't mean shit.
We need another big piece of lumber in our line up.
Jim Joyce >> Gary Cederstrom
I agree. DFW is one of the Tiger regulars on here. He's pretty good.
Let's just let this go and we can all move on.
ATLANTA — Sitting at his locker and clearly unhappy with himself, home-plate umpire Gary Cederstrom said that when he saw the replay of his game-ending strike-three call tonight on Johnny Damon, "It didn’t look very good."
Cederstrom said he called the pitch too quickly and that, when an umpire makes a call too quickly, he "usually gets in trouble."
Tigers manager Jim Leyland said the pitch was several inches outside.
If Cederstrom had called the pitch a ball, Damon would have had the game-tying walk, and the Tigers — remarkably — would have had their fifth consecutive walk with two out in the ninth.
Instead, the called third strike from right-hander Peter Moylan on Damon allowed the Braves to escape with a 4-3 win.
"It was a sweeping pitch, going away from Damon," Cederstrom said. "It looked good coming in, then broke late.
"My timing was fast. Whenever you have fast timing as an umpire, you usually get in trouble."
Leyland was right. Damon couldn't have hit that pitch with a boat paddle.
That reeked of "Let's get this game over with" umpiring.
The people whining about Leyland remind me of those who ran Sparky Anderson out of town on a rail at the end of his career. The Tigers got rid of him and immediately went down the crapper for ten years. I had a lot of fun reminding friends who had wanted him gone that he must have been doing something right when he won so many more games with the same players than the current manager did.
If the Tigers get rid of Leyland, there is a very good chance that this team will lose a lot more games than it is now. Leyland didn't become one of seven managers in the history of the game to take teams from both the AL and the NL to the World Series by being an idiot. And he didn't suddenly become one when he took the Detroit job.