State of Indiana findings just published. What's next? RIP
mesmerism! presidential assassinations! circuses on fire!
State of Indiana findings just published. What's next? RIP
nothing from a sports stand point except negative PR but i doubt that will even happen since they have god on there side. ugh ND irritates the hell out of me.
If it follows the same lines as MiOSHA, the school will appeal their violations and it will probably get reduced by some measure before they finally settle. In the end, 50 thousand or 77 thousand means very little to ND, and I am sure they just want it to be done and go away. Hopefully, if nothing else, they and other schools have all learned to take employee safety more seriously.
I can't imagine the Sullivan's not suing over this. This seems like a pretty open and shut lawsuit from the outside.
they'd win no problem. OSHA found that ND was negligent in safety. It would be open and shut.
However, the kid was going to ND NOT on any sort of scholarship as far as I know. They probably don't need the cash and would rather not suffer through that much press. Remember, they had the uncle issue the statement that they were pleased with the remote control cameras.
They did support those, now that you mention it. But I can't imagine not suing if I had a kid die in that manner. How else can that be perminantly prevented? If ND was forced to settle for millions (which it sure seems like they would have to), there would never be a case like this again. Even if I didn't need the money, I would do it for that reason.
I pray I'm never in the position of losing one of my kids, but I'd sue the hell out of them and use the money for a scholarship fund...assuming I didn't need the money. There's plenty of good that could be done with the $$ besides enriching the family for something that can never be fixed.
I was going to say they should start a Declan Sullivan Foundation or something. I think the best part would be knowing that every school in the country would be putting up electronically controlled cameras after seeing ND lose whatever ridiculous sum they would lose. If I had lost someone in a dumb accident like that, I would definitely feel good knowing I prevented anyone else from going through the same thing.
So assume they're catholic. As a Christian, I'd be extremely conflicted about suing unless I was confident I'd been intentionally wronged. In the case of an accident, a catholic family that wants to support the catholic community? Yeah, that's a pretty strong reason against it.
I don't have that connection, so maybe I just see it differently, but I think they're in a position to do a lot of good if they sue ND.
They don't have to go buy a yacht; they could give it to the Catholic Church for all I care. I just don't see this happening again if there's a case on the news where ND loses, and loses big.
U Cal should be negged several slots for being located in Berkeley, California, a dirty lunatic asylum that is the asshole of the western United States. UCLA is beautiful but overrated for reasons aforementioned--percentage of applicants who get in.
On the other hand I think the University of Virginia is outstanding and UNC is on the upswing.
I'm certainly not trying to force them to sue, only saying that a lot of good would probably come of it, including preventing similar lapses of judgement in the future, and potentially saving another life or two.
That's an honest mistake. This is straight negligence.
There's a very fine line between someone unintentionally causing your son harm through negligence and someone just not giving a shit and figuring there's a good chance things will work out.
This is akin to BK getting behind the wheel drunk and killing someone. Anybody with a MODICUM of common sense would look at a scissor lift, look at a forecast (and reality) of 50mph wind gusts and say "nope, that's not safe."
The family has accepted the changes that the school made and I don't think they're suing. The school will make the changes and pay over $78K to the OHSA in that area. Then they'll hold a moment of silence before the spring game, or something.
not much. irony is the point of my post. sanctions, suspensions, vacated wins, loss of scholarships, resignations, firings, post-season ineligiblity, etc. all this and more can be expected from the NCAA, league officials, and athletic departments for stretching too much, having a recruit over for a BBQ, failing to report the selling of gold pants, free tattoos, pay to play,etc. But kill your student vidiographer thru negligence and stupidity? Just pay a fine and sell your hydrolic lifts.
A moment of silence....
Nobody sent him out there on that lift trying to gain an unfair advantage or intending to break the rules in any way. I'm sure it seemed like the best idea at the time, and they'd probably been doing it for years quite safely.
Have you ever seen one of these things? They're big, heavy, industrial four wheeled vehicles that sit squat on the ground and weigh at least a ton. I'm kind of surprised the wind could blow it over. He must've been up too high.
Accidents happen. It's sad, but nobody was trying to do anything wrong. They just didn't be quite as careful as they NOW know they should have. Why should there be a massive penalty for an entirely innocent, if somewhat stupid mistake?
other schools -- including Michigan -- already had policies in place barring use of lifts when the wind exceeded certain speeds, and the lifts themselves are rated for certain conditions. I'm not saying the coach or AD should see prison time or anything, but given the precautions already in place at other schools, this was easily preventable.
IIRC there were reports that every single other big school in the area took kids out of towers that day. It was something like M, Purdue, Illinois and IU didn't have students in towers because of the wind that day. ND was absolutely negligent.
Why? Because its ND and people want to see them fry. Simply because ND isn't caught up in illegal work outs, paying recruits or selling ND gear for tatts. The long and short of this whole thing is that it was a tragic accident. ND has accepted its respobsibility by installing remote cameras and paying whatever fines that will be handed down in the end. The family has accepted this as Catholics because you are told to forgive your neighbor. Its simple for the average person to say "Sue the pants off'em" but the fact is that this was not a manhole cover left intentially off without signage, this was an error in safety & judgement on everyones part.
It was. It also led to the death of a college student because his employer did not follow the regulations put in place by the university; it's not like the kid broke a couple bones or got a bad concussion, he's gone. Forever.
It's also an error that would be forever prevented from occuring were they to sue.
Maybe. but in some states you can't sue your employer for wrongful death. Part of the work comp deal. (was Declan and employee, or a student volunteer?)
But maybe criminal charges? If Kelly can or will be charged with criminal negligence, negilgent manslaughter or something like that, is a question i can't answer. Maybe there is an MgoShark out there to enlighten the rest of us
I don't know the laws in Indiana for that sort of thing; I believe Sullivan was an employee though. I also don't know why there hasn't been anything about Kelly's culpability. ND had standards for keeping students in towers, and he exceeded them by like 200%*, causing a death. I don't know how he isn't at least partially responsible for that. If he was just some random employer, I think he would be in deep shit.
*I want to say that 25mph gusts were the max, and Sullivan died in like a 57mph gust, but I'm not totally sure about that.
Well that sucks for the Sullivan's. Especially because by Indiana law even a negligent homicide conviction for someone from ND doesn't seem to open the door for a wrongful death case from his family. That's terrible.
Something tells me your post would be a little different if the student were your son.
I'm not sure what more you want done? Would you like ND to give up every nickel they have? The kid is gone forever and no amount of money is going to change that. There are laws that are in place to deal with these events and while the outright fine total is ridiculous in regard to a human life, the fact is ND was foung guilty. ND will pay the fine, ND has installed cameras to correct their bad judgement so this will not happen again. There is apparently a scholarship trust being set up as well. I just don't know where you want to go with this aside from bankrupting ND and kicking Kelly to the curb.
And why Kelly? I am not sure you our I know exactly who runs what down there as far as hierarchy in regard to videographers and coaches. There is plenty of blame to go around here, believe me I hold no one innocent. That also includes Declan, because according to basic labour law he had the right to refuse going up in that thing. He apparently felt comfortable enough to tweet and text while he was up there.
If it was my kid, your damn right I would be mad. Suing people so this never happens again is moot at this point because everything you want done is being done, voluntarily. It was a tragic accident period.
It's pretty damn close to a manhole cover left off intentionally without signage.
If someone dies going 150mph on a motorcycle in the pouring rain with traffic, is that an accident? What about if someone in a position of authority tells a kid working as a courier that that's what he needs to do because this package has to get to the courthouse on time?
Blaze - I would guess that you have seen one but never been up in one (not slamming you). When extended, they are tall and narrow with the weight of a person at the very top. Without wind they sway with any movement and with any wind they are terrifying. If the coaches had ever stepped foot in one they would never allow a student to go up in that type of wind. Any company/ organization that utilizes lifts of any sort are under an obligation to know about them, to have any operators properly trained, and to have an overall safety program designed to prevent that type of accident. No excuse.
You do understand how levers work, right?
A scholarship is in the works already.
How does nobody get fired over this? I don't understand how nobody gets fired over this. This is on the almost-intentional end of "accidents."
If Brian Kelly point blank told a doctor to GTFO after the doctor told him "this kid has sustained a concussion and putting him back out there might kill him" and and then the kid sustained a hit and died, AND an investigation concurred that his had happened, he would be fired if not criminally prosecuted, right? What is so different about this case except for the part where nobody knows who this kid is?
For goodness sake the man should be fired. This isn't a freak accident.
This was an egregious error in judgement on the part of the coach. For anyone that has been around a scissor lift or used one, it is merely common sense not to use them in high winds. Interestingly, the school's response was to ban lifts and install cameras on poles, which they trumpeted in the press last week to get a PR win. In doing so, they basically admitted that they don't trust their coach's judgement.
Chrissakes, could someone please show the video with the dumbass bass-playing guy? Please? This thread bummed me out a bit.