I thought income-based repayment was only for those who had taken out their loans in the past 2 years(?).
OT: Debt from Law School at the School in Ohio leaves lawyer unfit for admission to Ohio Bar
i graduated law school in may so perhaps it wasn't an option for those before me.
Well no wonder you like your job... you clearly get paid to sit on MGoBlog all day.
with one caveat. If you read the NYT story, it said that despite maybe the top 10% of a law school class getting a "big law" job, most people who go to law school think they will be in the top 10%. It's not that easy. Everyone in law school is competitive and it's not just as easy as saying, "Well, I think I want to be in the Top 10%." It's a real sacrifice and, as the math dictates, 90% of people wont make it... That's just FWIW.
Best of luck, though. Things will pick up soon.
I would generally advise against law school. I had a good time because I was earning my third degree from Michigan, and I was at the bar 5-6 nights a week. A lot of my friends who were getting their MBAs at Ross at the time kept saying they wished they were in law school The reality, though, is that they will be rich one day, and I never will unless I abandon law. Yeah, I had one more year of additional "college" than they did, but now I'm a fucking lawyer.
It's a way to stay in college, but there are other--better--ways to do that too.
MBAs are for sobers.
all the damn time - its all lawyers. That explains why there are 500 post threads arguing about what the real meaning of 7-6 or whether when DB says, "I didn't offer him the job." he actually means he DIDn't offer the job OR that he didn't offer THE job.
I just passed the CA bar exam and am starting my own solo practice out the gate b/c of the bad job market. There are plenty of people who need lawyers if you are willing or able to find them and you are focusing on the right markets.
By the traditional measures of 'job markets', its a historically bad one for new lawyers looking to be hired. My advice is sit and talk to as many real lawyers as you can before law school or early in the process to see if you really want to do it - law school does not equal law practice. If you do, then go to law school and be the best lawyer you can in whatever area you want and don't worry about the money. If you are looking for the best pure economic investment $ vs. salary $, then immediately drop out of college, go to trade school to become a plumber or join the military or start your own business.
Likewise, a 4.0 gpa, at a top-tier school where you are Exec Editor of law reivew and president of the math club is wonderful, but it only matters for your first or second job. After that people only care about what you've done as a professional.
or you can do 4 years of full time military JAG service and then 4 years of reserves and the military COMPLETELY PAYS YOUR LOANS OFF IN 3 YEARS!
Sort of wish I would have done that. Stupid wifey...
I did the Army JAG internship and was offered commission into the Army and Air Force. However, at the time (2001) they were only offering to repay a measly $25,000 after 4 years of service. Compare that to the big firm offer I had it was financially suicide to go the JAG route. Of course, I would love to have done it but I would be seriously hurting financially.
Do they now offer full repayment?
I was talking with a 3L the other day at a bar event and she said that you serve full time for 4 years, then you do 4 years of reserves, but they pay all loans off in 3 years. It blew my mind.
That is the salary but with living expenses and a bunch of other non-taxable income it currently is around 65k. Law students who go into JAGC report the highest job satisfaction of any new lawyers as well. It is much more competitive now though because of all the law firm refugees trying to get anything they can.
I should have done it. But it was tough to pass up the 6 figures staring at me in the face. No one told me how truly sh-tty billing 2000 hours a year can be though. Dammnit.
i think the Ohio Bar was well within their rights to do this BECAUSE it was a character and fitness issue. the item specifically notes
Although the applicant lives with his nine-year-old daughter and her mother in the mother’s home and contributes minimally toward the household expenses, he has been unable to make any payments on his student loans, which began to come due in July 2009. He has also been unable to meet his credit-card obligations since approximately December 2008, and one creditor has obtained a default judgment against him.
he stopped making credit card payments. further, he claimed he was going to file bankruptcy in January but still hadn't done it by May. this means he was being disingenuous when he claimed the debts would not be an issue in his filing.
this is a horrible example to use as bars not understanding the current debt situation. this case looks like a guy who tried to take advantage of what he perceived as loopholes to skirt serious issues, namely that he had accrued debt in a variety of ways that he had taken no steps to address. i graduated law school too and never let my credit card bills go unpaid like him. further, i never claimed i was handling it and then spent 5 months not.
he was denied admission for the simple fact he shows, in his non-legal life, character elements that would easily parallel those of an attorney who fails to file motions, claims he did and continues to collect fees for cases he stopped work on months before. happens all the time. hell, one of my professors at Michigan got nailed for it 2-3 years ago.
I'm really hoping to get into one of the Ph.D programs in engineering I am applying to to avoid paying for a masters. Student loans suck and theres no way I would go into a PhD program if I had to pay for it.
When do you find out if you're admitted? What are your top choices?
My realistic choices are:
My dream shot school (like UM was for undergrad):
Univ of Washington
Not a bad plan. I settled on paying for a masters just because I hate doing research, but I knew I didn't have the skills/resume to get the kind of job I ultimately wanted. PhD programs with funding make a ton of sense if that's your thing.
People say to network but rarely tell you how. Here's how:
If you have access to Martindale-Hubble, which you should if you're in law school, you can do searches of attorneys by undergrad education, law school education, practice area, and city of employment. Make a list of 5-10 cities, then search for Michigan undergrad/law degree-holders in those cities in the practice areas you want.
Once you have that list, send emails to them asking for an "informational interview" asking them how they got to where they are, how they conducted their job search, and informing that you're asking because you feel like you have something in common with them (Michigan interest, desire to work in their city, interest in their practice area). That will start to build your network. After the informational interview, ask if they'd be willing to give you comments/notes on your resume. Most will accept and then you've passed your resume along. If there's something worthwhile on it, you may get unsolicited (yet, in a way, solicited) offers to pass it on. If you don't get these, thank the person very much for his or her time (via hand-written thank you note), and ask them to keep you in mind if they hear of anything. Then follow-up in a month or two to update on your search progress.
Law school is insanely expensive but, in the long run, pays off. Just understand that it's a decade or two post-graduation that you get the payoff. The odds are (read: 95%) you're not going to impress anyone as a baller lawyer when you're 30. Maybe when you're 50, but at that point, you (rightly) wont care.
Commercial real estate is where it's at - especially if you want to be really skinny.
he was denied admission because his unwillingness to be honest about his debt, or pay those whom he owed, would easily lead him to doing this
I echo those who wish they would have gone into JAG. I interned at the Pentagon with the Air Force after my 2nd year and had an amazing time. You get great experience in several areas of the law, don't have to bill anyone, future employers love it and they repay your loans.
I seriously rethought law school on the first day after we had to do this scavenger hunt type expedition of legal research and some d-bag ripped out the page from the final book we had to locate. I treated it like a job, played intramurals almost every day for an extra 3 years of my life and had a great time. The first semester is by far the most important, but like anything else a good connection and knowing how to talk to people can get you what you want.
The question I have is then, how much is the economy picking up? I'm a recent grad on my way to law school with a lot of friends already there, and when my 1-3L friends and I talk about job prospects, they always mention the crash and how the legal market lags behind in the pick up. For those just heading into law school, when we talk about employment, we're talking about speculating what job prospects will be three years from now (given they don't get OCI). For those attorney's on this board, do you see things heading in an upward trend? Or just not getting worse?