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OT - CYO Philly ends 11 year old girl's football career

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February 14th, 2013 at 10:50 AM
#1
Blazefire
Blazefire's picture
Joined: 04/17/2009
MGoPoints: 15741
OT - CYO Philly ends 11 year old girl's football career

So, I'll get to the link really quickly here, so you all have a chance to read it.

CYO Philly tells 11 year old, only girl in program, football is "boys only".

This has been rehashed several times now, but I feel that it never really comes to a clear answer, in part because of some extenuating circumstance (the girl only plays kicker, and has a no contact rule for her, opposing players complained, etc). In this case, this 5th grade girl, pretty good sized at over 5 feet and 110lbs, plays defensive end and is evidently pretty darn good at it.

Where does everyone come down on this issue. I think it's stupid to ban her for the following reasons.

1. CYO's have women's locker room facilities available. She can dress and then they can hold pre-game meetings in one of the facility's multi-purpose rooms, no problem.

2. She's playing defensive end. She's not asking for any special treatment. She wants to hit, and be hit.

3. At the 5th grade level, the girls are often BIGGER than the boys. This is not a safety concern right now.

4. There is not enough girl's interest in football to start a girl's only league,

The nature of football as a contact sport is such that if you are small and weak enough to get seriously hurt playing it, you're gonna be too small and weak to actually see the field. Let her play until puberty takes over and she can't compete well enough to keep her spot.  That will happen long before there's an injury risk more appreciable than for any other player.

"This is the EMU game, not the emo game."
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February 14th, 2013 at 10:57 AM | Agreed (Score:5 Normal)
MikeCohodes
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Joined: 08/28/2012
MGoPoints: 1263

if she wants to play, her parents want her to play, and she's comparably sized to the other players, then there is no reason why she shouldn't be allowed to play.  If the military now allows women in combat, something far more hazardous to one's health than football, then she should be allowed to play football.  Shame on the organization for kicking her out.

Twitter:  @MikeCohodes

My Blog - posts on movies, tv, and books; politics; and fatherhood  Updates minimum 3x a week

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February 14th, 2013 at 12:35 PM | I agree with you up until the (Score:4 Normal)
maizenbluedevil
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Joined: 09/12/2008
MGoPoints: 2602

I agree with you up until the military part.  Citing something that was a bad decision as rationale that something else is a good idea just doesn't work.  

Re. the football thing, I agree it should be up to the parents and the girl.  I personally wouldn't let my daughter play football though.  Or join the military.

 

CJK5H

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February 14th, 2013 at 10:59 AM | Bad idea (Score:-1 Normal)
Jkidd49
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Joined: 01/30/2012
MGoPoints: 39

When i was in CYO league there were two different teams each with a girl on their squad and they BOTH ended up with broken legs...  i know its not politically correct but its been my personal experience that at a certain point this becomes a bad idea.

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:02 AM | Boys never got hurt though, (Score:5 Normal)
MGoBender
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Joined: 03/26/2010
MGoPoints: 5138

Boys never got hurt though, right?

Also, "your experience" was when you were how old? For how long? You're using anecdotal evidence to the extreme here, methinks.

CoE Class of 2007

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:03 AM | Sure (Score:5 Normal)
Blazefire
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Joined: 04/17/2009
MGoPoints: 15741

There are injury risks. I'm willing to wager quite a few boys broke bones over the course of their playing careers as well. A broken leg will mend, especially in a child. Not giving her the chance to break that leg is more damaging, I think.

"This is the EMU game, not the emo game."
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February 14th, 2013 at 11:13 AM | So, using your "evidence," (Score:5 Normal)
GoBlueInNYC
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Joined: 03/23/2010
MGoPoints: 5822

So, using your "evidence," girls have inherently weak bones. Is that what you're saying?

EDIT: Also, "at a certain point" means prior to 5th grade?

I am this close to going all Dark Blue in here.

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February 14th, 2013 at 12:29 PM | Yep (Score:4 Normal)
BiSB
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Joined: 08/15/2009
MGoPoints: 27876

Irrefutable logic, for the win.

They no longer call me Bisbiño

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February 14th, 2013 at 12:35 PM | I'm a man, but.... (Score:5 Normal)
Naked Bootlegger
Naked Bootlegger's picture
Joined: 01/28/2011
MGoPoints: 1211

I have broken bones on three different occasions playing non-football sports.   I must  have weak bones.   Ergo, I must be a woman. 

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February 14th, 2013 at 4:58 PM | So if a player breaks a leg, (Score:4 Normal)
Urban Warfare
Urban Warfare's picture
Joined: 09/28/2010
MGoPoints: 1146

So if a player breaks a leg, they must be a woman?  'Cause if breaking a leg means woman, Toussaint should be hosting the fracking View. 

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:00 AM | let the damn girl play.  and (Score:3 Normal)
samdrussBLUE
Joined: 01/21/2012
MGoPoints: 632

let the damn girl play.  and let her destroy the boys while she can. 

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:08 AM | Football is for men.MEN MEN (Score:0 Flamebait)
IncrediblyBLUE
Joined: 03/26/2011
MGoPoints: 589

Football is for men.

MEN MEN MEN MEN MEN.

If I wanted to play "clean the house," I would probably be ridiculed.  Or what if I wanted to do laundry?  You would probably scoff at me.

Coach Hoke once told me that a moral victory is still a (expletive deleted) loss.

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:12 AM | Seriously?  The first thing (Score:4 Normal)
74polSKA
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Joined: 05/25/2011
MGoPoints: 1217

Seriously?  The first thing my daughter's male friends want to play with when they visit is her kitchen set.  Their dad's don't have a problem with it, as they shouldn't. 

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:13 AM | Woosh! (Score:2 Normal)
Blazefire
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Joined: 04/17/2009
MGoPoints: 15741

What was that thing that just flew over your head? I mean, wow, it went so fast I couldn't make it out!

"This is the EMU game, not the emo game."
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February 14th, 2013 at 11:19 AM | Sorry, I thought it was (Score:5 Normal)
74polSKA
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Joined: 05/25/2011
MGoPoints: 1217

Sorry, I thought it was customary to put /s if you're joking about something.  I guess that's why this Internetz thing is so confusing to me.  I'm going to start hanging out with Herm. 

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:38 AM | Note to self (Score:2 Normal)
inthebluelot
Joined: 01/05/2010
MGoPoints: 72

Never let my son anywhere near your daughters kitchen set.

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:14 AM | i think he's being sarcastic... (Score:1 Normal)
JCV16
Joined: 06/29/2011
MGoPoints: 456

if not, he's the stupidest person ever

Tremendous!

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:15 AM | Wait, I can't tell if you're (Score:1 Overrated)
GoBlueInNYC
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Joined: 03/23/2010
MGoPoints: 5822

Wait, I can't tell if you're being serious or not. Poe's Law and all that, I can't tell if you're being hyperbolic for sarcasm's sake or you actually think this.

I am this close to going all Dark Blue in here.

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:24 AM | /s, right? (Score:2 Normal)
umeuph97
Joined: 08/30/2009
MGoPoints: 41

Maybe my sacasometer is off today. If no sarcasm:
A. Enjoy staying single or
B. i feel sorry for you significant other.

There is no more complete school anywhere.

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:25 AM | /s, right? (Score:1)
umeuph97
Joined: 08/30/2009
MGoPoints: 41

Maybe my sacasometer is off today. If no sarcasm:
A. Enjoy staying single or
B. i feel sorry for your significant other.

Edit: First double!! WooHoo!

There is no more complete school anywhere.

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:09 AM | I say let her play as long as (Score:3 Normal)
74polSKA
74polSKA's picture
Joined: 05/25/2011
MGoPoints: 1217

I say let her play as long as the rules are the same for everybody, which seems to be the case here.  If she expects high school teams to make concessions for her 5 years from now because she's played so long and now is at a disadvantage because the boys caught up to her physically, I have a problem with that.

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:48 AM | and thats the issue by (Score:1 Normal)
cbs650
Joined: 02/07/2011
MGoPoints: 233

and thats the issue by allowing her to play now she and her parents are going to claim discrimination later when shes not capable of playing hs ball.

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:55 AM | Straw-man (Score:3 Normal)
Blazefire
Blazefire's picture
Joined: 04/17/2009
MGoPoints: 15741

That's a lot of bull.

There is no evidence towards that end what so ever, and her parents haven't requested that they make any special abridgement or adjustment of the rules for her whatsoever, except simply that she be allowed to compete. Her older brother plays, and she wants to play in part because of him. She, and her parents, know what the game demands.

"This is the EMU game, not the emo game."
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February 14th, 2013 at 11:11 AM | I keep hearing that girl's (Score:3 Funny)
unWavering
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Joined: 01/13/2011
MGoPoints: 1765

I keep hearing that girl's soccer is really dangerous because their necks don't have the muscles to withstand fast changes in direction which often leads to neck injuries.  I have to imagine football would be even more dangerous for the average girl.

With that said, this is not an 'average' girl, and she can clearly hold her own.  I have no problem with it in this case, but I don't think your average girl should be allowed to play contact football.

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February 15th, 2013 at 10:46 AM | Their necks don't have the (Score:1 Normal)
phork
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Joined: 11/01/2009
MGoPoints: 1088

Their necks don't have the muscle.....?  Wait, what? 

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:12 AM | When I was in middle school (Score:2)
quigley.blue
quigley.blue's picture
Joined: 03/01/2010
MGoPoints: 240

When I was in middle school I was too big to play pop warner (unfortunately I haven't grown since), so I say if she's big enough, have at it.  She wont be truly undersized at her current size for a couple more years.

 

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:14 AM | she'll attract bears (Score:5 Normal)
JCV16
Joined: 06/29/2011
MGoPoints: 456

they can smell the menstration

Tremendous!

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:19 AM | Finally, a reasonable (Score:5 Funny)
GoBlueInNYC
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Joined: 03/23/2010
MGoPoints: 5822

Finally, a reasonable response. Do they not use mandated menstruation tents in Philadelphia?

And just to be clear, I'm a guy with a good attitude towards menstruation.

I am this close to going all Dark Blue in here.

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:17 AM | Any kid that can safely (Score:3 Normal)
Cold War
Joined: 01/15/2012
MGoPoints: 434

Any kid that can safely compete and benefit should play. Gender shouldn't be part of the discussion.

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:18 AM | Anecdotal evidence (Score:1)
Jkidd49
Jkidd49's picture
Joined: 01/30/2012
MGoPoints: 39

is all I was going off of because its all I have experienced... and no, to my knowledge no one else in that league that year broke their leg, sorry i have not been tracking nationwide trends on the issue.  Of course boys do get hurt playing football my point was the relative rate at which boys and girls would get hurt in early adolescense, playing football, might differ.

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:21 AM | Apparently (Score:1)
MikeCohodes
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Joined: 08/28/2012
MGoPoints: 1263

its MGoControversy week here on the blog.  We've seen posts on the pope's resignation, native american mascots, a shooting at Maryland, & global warming all devolve into angry commenting flamewars, and now today we've got Oscar Pistorius' shooting of his girlfriend that's already starting to slide towards a gun control debate and a post on gender & sports.  The first four all got very messy, maybe we can be more civilized with these two threads today?  Pretty please?

 

Twitter:  @MikeCohodes

My Blog - posts on movies, tv, and books; politics; and fatherhood  Updates minimum 3x a week

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:28 AM | You would say that, you (Score:3 Funny)
GoBlueInNYC
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Joined: 03/23/2010
MGoPoints: 5822

You would say that, you PC-obsessed, right wing, liberal, socialism-loving, anarchist. 

Go back to your Bible belt homestead of California!

I am this close to going all Dark Blue in here.

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:31 AM | well said (Score:2 Normal)
MikeCohodes
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Joined: 08/28/2012
MGoPoints: 1263

you never fail to crack me up sir, you're one of my fave posters on here.  thanks for the laugh!

Twitter:  @MikeCohodes

My Blog - posts on movies, tv, and books; politics; and fatherhood  Updates minimum 3x a week

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February 15th, 2013 at 10:39 AM | Ha, thanks! (Score:2)
GoBlueInNYC
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Joined: 03/23/2010
MGoPoints: 5822

Ha, thanks!

I am this close to going all Dark Blue in here.

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:29 AM | I'm not counting any gun control posts... (Score:2 Normal)
justingoblue
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Joined: 11/16/2010
MGoPoints: 10860

on the Pistorius thread, just some jokes that I'm not sure I love.

Go Blue!

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:41 AM | potential for it is there (Score:0 Trolling)
MikeCohodes
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Joined: 08/28/2012
MGoPoints: 1263

but you are correct we haven't quite gotten there yet.  it seemed for a brief moment that we were sliding towards that, with a comment like this:

"You don't fire 4 shots at an intruder...you fire 4 shots when you want to kill someone."

I was expecting someone to start a debate about keeping a gun in your home is more likely not to be used on a home invader but a loved one, etc etc.  It seems though that the board hasn't gone over that cliff just yet. Thankfully.  I just had a feeling there for a minute that it could go there potentially.

Twitter:  @MikeCohodes

My Blog - posts on movies, tv, and books; politics; and fatherhood  Updates minimum 3x a week

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:44 AM | Sounds like you are against (Score:2 Normal)
inthebluelot
Joined: 01/05/2010
MGoPoints: 72

double amputee females carrying guns to football practice unless it takes place at a casino on a reservation who don't use aerosols of any kind when doing their hair. You're never happy are you?

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:49 AM | nice (Score:0 Flamebait)
MikeCohodes
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Joined: 08/28/2012
MGoPoints: 1263

No, I'm just hoping for some civility around here this week.

Oh, now there's a Penn State sex abuse sanctions thread.  *sigh* oh well.

Your comment upvoted for cracking me up.

 

Twitter:  @MikeCohodes

My Blog - posts on movies, tv, and books; politics; and fatherhood  Updates minimum 3x a week

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February 14th, 2013 at 3:07 PM | Wait? (Score:3 Funny)
MGoBrewMom
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Joined: 08/13/2009
MGoPoints: 1366

The Pope is resigning?

Mom, MGrad and life long fan living in So Cal

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:21 AM | i am not suggesting (Score:2 Normal)
Jkidd49
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Joined: 01/30/2012
MGoPoints: 39

it should be illegal for girls to play football, i am suggesting it might be a bad idea... just because you can do something, doesnt mean you should.

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:27 AM | Of course not (Score:2)
Blazefire
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Joined: 04/17/2009
MGoPoints: 15741

You only said you think the injury risk might be higher. It quite possibly is. But the thing to do is not to ban them from playing because they're girls.

The thing to do is to create a set of minimum safety requirements for size, weight and maybe a basic medical test like bone density for each level of football. Gender be damned, you have to meet those requirements to compete at that level. You meet, you can compete. You fail, you'll be stuck at the lower level until you age out of it.

The thing is, it sounds like this girl is gonna be pretty goiod sized. She likely never will fail to meet size/height requirements. Then it's just a matter of educating players/parents on the potential injuries, including, yes, discussions on where girl's athletic strengths differ from boys, and let them make that choice.

"This is the EMU game, not the emo game."
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February 14th, 2013 at 11:29 AM | No. If you can do something, (Score:2)
MgoBadFish
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Joined: 01/30/2012
MGoPoints: 149

No. If you can do something, even though it might be a bad idea, you should be allowed to do it. The choice is hers and her parents, I'm sure they all understand the risk involved.

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:42 AM | How about (Score:1)
bleednblue
bleednblue's picture
Joined: 08/12/2009
MGoPoints: 218

the choice of the organzation to make this decision Mr. Freedom fighter?  Should it be protected too?


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February 14th, 2013 at 11:38 AM | Hell yes, but why stop there. (Score:1 Flamebait)
LB
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Joined: 09/26/2009
MGoPoints: 5055

I have yet to see a snowmobile racer win a battle against a tree, for example. We should stop allowing all those dangerous activities.

Bubble-wrap anyone? Some people already come equipped with soft heads.

May you have a strong foundation
When the winds of changes shift

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:22 AM | Seriously, I can remember in (Score:2 Normal)
swalburn
Joined: 11/24/2011
MGoPoints: 59

Seriously, I can remember in 5th grade there were a lot of girls that could kick my ass.  I was scared of more than one of them.  In High School, I remember watching so many girls beat boys during wrestling it wasn't even a big deal especially at the lower weights.  I really don't understand why she can't play unless there is some safety issue.

Get busy living or get busy dying.

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:48 AM | which is why I pose the question: (Score:2 Normal)
get-on-my-lawn
Joined: 02/14/2013
MGoPoints: 340

are boobs a safety issue? And if so, the fact that all girls grow boobs at different ages, how could this be controled or whatever? just a thought..

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February 14th, 2013 at 3:33 PM | This to be trolling (Score:2 Normal)
CleverMichiganR...
CleverMichiganReference's picture
Joined: 07/18/2008
MGoPoints: 4204

I can't even.

Yes, human breasts are a safety issue when small-minded idiots get so obsessed over them that they get too distracted to pay attention to their surroundings, causing them to walk right into something. Preferably something at crotch height, for cheap laughs.

The world looks better through maize mirror tint. 

Still waiting on backup.

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:23 AM | Comare this to Little League (Score:2)
quigley.blue
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Joined: 03/01/2010
MGoPoints: 240

How many kids do you remember playing baseball when you were a little kid that just plain freaking sucked.  Yet somehow they played, and half the time they were on the mound walking the bases around and were usually the ones that made the third base coach duck because they couldn't even hold onto the bat. 

If parents can foster the disillusionment of having their kids look like fools on the diamond, but they can't handle their golden boy getting sacked by a girl, they are just being ignorant of the reality that their kid just kinda sucks at sports.

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February 14th, 2013 at 11:29 AM | Careful (Score:2)
Blazefire
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Joined: 04/17/2009
MGoPoints: 15741

Remember that this is the CYO's decision. There are no reported complaints from other parents. We'll hope that none of those come to light.

"This is the EMU game, not the emo game."
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February 14th, 2013 at 11:35 AM | I understand (Score:2)
quigley.blue
quigley.blue's picture
Joined: 03/01/2010
MGoPoints: 240

I understand, and to that point I absolutely think that the CYO needs to objectively evaluate a kid's safety within a certain set of bounds, and really that's about it.

My purpose in saying that was mostly to just be snarky, but I also wanted to remind everyone that ultiamtely her play/performance has nothing to do with being a girl.  A 5th grade girl should be able to suck at football and still be allowed to play as long as she is eligible within a set of safety guidlines.

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February 14th, 2013 at 12:17 PM | Right - this is the CYO's (Score:0 Flamebait)
APBlue
APBlue's picture
Joined: 01/07/2011
MGoPoints: 1146

Right - this is the CYO's decision.  As a City Youth Organization, do they receive any funds from the city?  If so, would they be held to the same discrimination standards as any other government dept.?  

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