But when he called out the institution, I was done with him. So glad he's not our coach!
OT: Congrats to Jim Harbaugh
I agree with Mike Hart. This is NOT a Michigan man. Jim Harbaugh lacks any class, and I am thrilled that we have Brady Hoke and not him. I do not offer him congratulations. I do not wish him well. I hope he fails in every aspect of his life. Those who are entirely devoid of loyalty or appreciation for the institution that gives them so much deserve only the worst.
Ok, that being said, let's see how fast I can get flamed to -5 . . . .
Sorry, but you are misguided....whether you like to admit it or not, most schools, including Michigan, DO steer players to majors that are less rigorous so they can concentrate on as much time as possible to football. Yes it hurts to admit it, but I was a trainer for the football team for 3 years when Harbaugh was there and challenging majors were the exception, not the rule. Players who come to mind were Stefan Humphries and Ken Higgins (a fraternity brother), who were excellent students and quite frankly destined to success outside of pro football. While Stefan ended up being a very good lineman for the Broncos, he is better known as a doctor now and Higgy is a venture capitalist after getting his law degree from Harvard (he still notes to this day that law school at Harvard was easier than undergrad B School at Michigan, when coupled with the demands of football). So get off your high horse.
I played sports against Harbaugh growing up in Ann Arbor and there was no question that he was a stud and a leader and was destined to go to Michigan and be successful there. It all came to fruition and he has quite the resume to attest to his excellence and stature as a Michigan man.
So spare me your bs about how Jim Harbaugh is not a Michigan man because he criticized his alma mater. He loves Michigan as much as any other Michigan man and deserves the respect and honor affored them with his proven dedication to Michigan. You can piss and moan becuase he doesn't kiss your ass and tell you what you want hear 24/7, but them's the facts and sometimes the facts hurt.
And BTW, hoping he is a failure in his career endeavors is quite the noble position. Grow up and save the whine for your next cheese party...
Go Blue! Those Who Stay Will Be Champions....
First off, I don't agree with the poster you responded to. I don't like Harbaugh but I wouldn't say I hope he fails at life.
To address your point, the people who don't like Harbaugh don't like him because of the circumstances around his statement, not because of what he said. He waited until Bo died and then made a hypocritical statement to help him out with recruiting. No matter your opinion on his character, that was a dick move
Bull. He threw Michigan under the bus to boost his credibility with his new employer and its alumni and donors, and he did it in a public forum. Sorry, that's not what I would expect from a "Michigan man". He also wouldn't have done it if Bo were still alive, because he knew damn well that Bo would have been on the next plane to Palo Alto to kick his ass. Jamie Morris told Harbaugh to "lose my phone number."
And you're right, the story was almost ignored nationally ... almost. It was not ignored in Ann Arbor or the Detroit newspapers. Hart may have revived the story, but that wasn't the first time that anyone at Michigan had heard of it.
Did you miss the "hpocritical" part of my post? He was doing the same thing at Stanford. If he really wanted to highlight something special about the program, he probably should have picked something that was unique to Stanford. If he was so upset about what happened to him at Michigan, he probably should have tried to do something different for his players. As I said - calling out Michigan (as he used us by name) for something he was doing at Stanford is hypocritical and a dick move.
It's all Carr's fault!!!
So what if its true? He had absolutely no reason to randomly come out and talk about this 20 years after his time at Michigan. Just because its true doesn't mean there is nothing wrong with saying it and that he "loves michigan as much as any michigan man" or has "proven dedication" to the university.
He had a reason. He was now the coach at Stanford. The "We'll let you major in what you want" bit was part of his recruiting sales pitch. The recruiting trail is a nasty place. Remember Miles' reported comments about Carr having Parkinson's?
...the personal knowledge of both Harbaugh & the inner workings of the program give you a lot of credibility here... certainly far more than the multitudes of F-bomb hurling "haters" posting.
Harbaugh was a great Wolverine as a player - Fiesta Bowl win & #2 ranking in '85, guaranteeing & delivering victory in Columbus in '86 - and clearly is nothin short of great as a coach.
As you point out, many (most, even all?) top collegiate athletic programs "encourage" players to pursue majors that will allow time to fully participate in their sport. Harbaugh's big mistake was to air this fact publicly, and try to imply he'd do, or they had done, it differently at Stanford.
With all his successes & skills, even his biggest supporters will have to concede he's got a big mouth and talks before he thinks sometimes. All that said, it's my prediction he'll succeed Brady Hoke as our coach sometime in the future... and bring Super Bowl winning experience with him.
I also predict that when this happens all these "ass-hats" ripping him now will be WAY on board.
We'll see... Go Blue, Go Jim, Go Tom... that'd be a whole lotta Michigan QBs in the bowl, huh!?
Harbaugh is a helluva coach, no doubt, but he has a closet full of skeletons that Michigan wants no part of. And if Hoke is here for 10 years or longer, Jim will be in his late 50s, early 60s by then. Presumably, he'll continue to be successful at the 49ers and will be making the kind of money Michigan could or would never pay him.
If you'd take anyone in the world over Brady Hoke, you are the flaming idiot.
I can't bring myself to believe that calling out your institution on its faults is always a bad thing, a lot of times calling someone out on their faults can help them change their ways. However, the way he did it was not to my liking, but for me to say that I didn't want him as a coach during the search would be a lie. He would have done well as a Michigan coach. That having been said, I enjoy everything that Hoke has done so far and at this point I wouldn't have it any other way.
The Michigan coaching tree is alive and well thank you.
Brady Hoke and Les Miles in college
Jim Harbaugh in the pros
All three learned from Bo.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe that Brady Hoke ever coached or played under Bo. He would be considered a part of Lloyd or Moeller's coaching tree.
That's why I used "learned". Harbaugh didn't coach under Bo either. Brady tells interesting stories of his interactions with Bo and was definitely greatly influenced by Bo
...are part of Bo's tree. Just like Knight's are part of Iba's--the tree, and the influence, doesn't stop at one generation.
In his post game interview, Vernon Davis said, "It's not about me, its THE TEAM, THE TEAM, THE TEAM." Now where have I heard that before? The Bo tree is alive and well.
The ending of that game resembled the Under The Lights game.
3 touchdowns in the last 3 minutes. Instead of letting up and letting Akers kick the tying field goal with 10 seconds left, he calls a pass to the end zone. The good guys win.
My thoughts exactly. UTL has changed the way I view the last few minutes of games (and the corresponding clock management). I knew the Saints had left too much time on the clock (as the Niners had certainly done just before them). I wasn't completely surprised by the ending. I almost expected it.
good guys my ass
He gets no support from me. He bashes the program after Bo's death so he wouldn't face that wrath and then toyed around last year. Just because he is a grad doesn't mean I will blindly support him.
For me, the fact that he waited intil Coach Bo died, is troublesome. But Harbaugh was always one to make bold statements, that Michigan fans loved when he played. To get angry that he still makes them after his playing days, is a bit hypocritical. Again though, my anger is that he waited until after Bo died, still angers me. I think that Bo would'e forgiven him though, because Bo knew that Harbaugh's true heart loves this University.
To be fair, it might be a coincidence that it happened after Bo's death, because he didn't get the Stanford job until a couple of months after Bo died. He made those comments as a way of differentiating Stanford from other schools on the recruiting trail. I'm not sure if he really would have kept quiet if Bo had been around.
I just can't see him making that statement with Bo still with us. I can appreciate him defending the reality of an academics lead University. I just wish he could have done it wasn't an attempt to harm something he claims to love.
In what ways did he toy with us last year? I'm just curious what evidence you have of this.
Come out and say "not interested" and move on. He didn't and could have ended the speculation but did not. That is what I mean by "toyed".
So you hold it against Dungy, Gruden, Fitzgerald, Pinkell, and whoever the hell else everyone was speculating would be the coach that they didn't come out and specifically say "not interested"? I mean, according to DB, we never even offered Harbaugh. Do you have evidence otherwise?
Actually, in like the 1st press conference after RR was fired DB said he was pretty sure that Harbaugh was going to the NFL. I'd take that as a pretty good hint. Or are you saying you wanted Harbaugh to come out and say he wasn't interested in the Michigan job while RR was still the coach? Either way, you're grasping at reasons to dislike him.
"the only way I'd leave Stanford is if the perfect NFL position came up". To compare every coach out there with a former Michigan guy who everyone is saying is THE candidate for a month is dumb, because it's not hardly the same thing. Just make it clear that's where you want to be so it doesn't look like you're turning your back on us, or that we're not reaching out to you. Unless you really are playing some game.
Having said that, I hold no ill will. He's where he's best suited, happy and succeeding. He's an excellent coach, and would have had great success here. He'd probably make one cringe with what he says and occasionally does at times...he'd have been our cocky Steve Spurrier. But I'm happy we have a coach that has shown he can win too, and we don't have to worry about being embarrassed either. If it was down to these options, it was win-win. Im sure JH would have won here too; he's just might have left after doing it.
I see what you're saying with the Michigan connection thing, but if Harbaugh had come out and said he wasn't interested in the Michigan job while RR was still the coach, everyone here would have went crazy about him presuming RR was getting fired. Further, he made it pretty clear he was going NFL pretty soon after RR was fired, and he mentioned Michigan in his press conference accepting the NFL job. I just think people here feel waaaay too entitled to up to the second information, when really they aren't.
EDIT: Also, he couldn't come out and say "I want to go to the NFL" while the speculation was going wild b/c he was still at Stanford. I just don't see what people wanted him to do here. And maybe he didn't know he was going to the NFL and wanted to explore his options between when RR was fired and when he accepted the NFL job. I just don't agree with this qualm at all. It is a very self-centered point of view for our fans to expect him to make a statement specific to Michigan with all that was going on.
For instance, the whole flip out on Carr over Morgan Trent thing. Carr responded in like 3 days and in that time everyone was blasting him on here b/c he didn't tweet a response immediately.
I don't think he jerked us around. I'm just saying that if he wanted to end any speculation that he wanted the job he could have. Though he had no obligation to. Unless he was actually leading us along (or getting jerked around by our AD...we'll never know), which was possible. And if it wasn't the case, ending speculation would have helped all parties.
I think you bring up a good point in that I think we've made the timeline seem a lot longer and more agonizing than it was because we air tracked every second of it online. Tuesday fired RR rumor. Wed. press conference. Thurs. Harbaugh rumors. Fri. Harbaugh to SF word. Sun-Mon. Miles rumors. Then Hoke rumors and quick announcement. Then much gnashing of teeth.
Between the month of Harbaugh and pre-post-Orange Bowl speculation, it seemed like more. The funny thing is, if he wanted to go pro, there's probably no one Harbaugh is happier to see take over than Hoke, because of how tight Brady is with his family. It's working out for everybody, and probably for the best for everyone (even Miles, crushing blow this week nonwithstanding).
...that Brandon's keeping RR dangling until after the new year so the buyout would be lower had a lot to do with Harbaugh going to the NFL rather than U of M.
Another classless, clueless move by our AD, Eugene Krabs.
I can't understand how fans can criticize Brandon's handling of the coaching change. He made two decisions (firing Rodriguez and hiring Hoke) that were somewhat controversial at the time but now are almost universally acknowledged to be good moves. I guess I'm missing the "cluelessness."
If Brandon would have fired RR in December, this board would have been apopletic over the "classlessness" over firing a coach before giving him a chance to coach in a bowl game, with 15 practices. Fans would have been convinced that with a month to prepare, RR would have delivered a flawless gameplan (which, needless to say, did not prove to be the case). And if we had hired Hoke in December, there would have been legions of fans convinced that we "didn't give Harbaugh a chance," just as there are those to this day who are convinced that Les Miles would have taken the job in Janaury 2008.
So keeping RR around 1) gave him one final chance to show his stuff; 2) gave Harbaugh every chance to take the job if he wanted and 3) saved the department money. What was the downside? One or two recruits picked other schools? Big deal.
between "I'm interested in the job" and "I wouldn't be interested in that job under any circumstances." It was clear throughout that he preferred an NFL job but until the NFL position was finalized he would have been an idiot to burn all bridges elsewhere.
Way to do the same thing you accuse me of by assuming my second comment was the incident driving my opinion of him. No I don't claim to have inside info on the negotiations last year, it was simply my perception based on how things unfolded last year. Either way it turns out that things turned out best for both parties involved.
What probably colored my perception of last year was how I already felt about him based on his hypocritical comments about the AD at UM when his pristine Stanford was doing....oh yeah, something similar. So enjoy your own opinion but please don't attempt to judge the basis of my opinion of the man. You like him, great I don't care. Don't insult mine based on a 2 line comment on a blog.
I'm happy his team won (and having just returned from San Francisco, those fans were definitely excited about this team), but I still think Harbaugh is a bit of an ass and he's done enough obnoxious things these past couple of years that it makes it hard for me to root "for" him. I won't knock him for winning, but if he embodies many of the traits attached to the "Michigan Man" mantra (and my feelings about that particular designation being what they are), I would suggest we revisit that definition.
Felt like i was watching Michigan-ND all over
I like the Niners and was cheering for them. He is a great coach. That's all I will say .
He said some stupid things. He's an asshat. He's a phenomenal football coach. The NFL is a good place for him. Congrats, man. Amazing job. Actually making the NFL fun to watch.
All of this I agree with. He'd have been a hassle at UM; it is good for him to coach the pros where I think his style (which is very successful) and ego works best.
Stanford is not a big time football school, and my guess is that he had more autonomy than he would have had at UM. He was there for 4 years, and while he helped turn them around I'd like to see how he would have handled boosters, alumni, etc. over the long haul. RR was a great college coach as well, yet he struggled handling the ancillary elements of being a HC at UM.
I'm weary of people treating football aesthetics as a matter of fact and not opinion. I for one have a strong preference for 10-7 over 73-62 and I enjoy watching a power running game more than watching somebody throw 70 passes. I'm sure I'm in the minority but it isn't a minority of one.
He made a statement, that's for sure.
i would have been happy to have him as our coach, but i'm glad we have a coach that truly wants to be here, and we didn't have to lure here with promises of a big pay check.
Concur. I find him hard to root for. There's a certain lack of class, fergodsakes. I didn't know it at the time the search was underway, but I'm glad we did not get him. And, of course, I am very pleased with coach Hoke.
I see your point. Jh is the guy when he is on your team, you love him, when he is on the opposing team, you hate him.
Jim Harbaugh will always be one of several famous faces of Michigan. Some of you are no better than the fans who support OHIO.
Indeed. Having an opinion is a bad thing? Mike Hart has little room to define who is and is not a Michigan Man particularly given his chest thumping "little brother" comment.
Harbaugh is a loose cannon due to his emotions but I consider him more of Michigan Man than David Brandon who ignored our MVP during the coaching search and couldn't even buy rings for the coaching staff for the Gator Bowl. You want to rip on Harbaugh for class, you can couple his antics with Brandon. But, haters gonna hate.
Wait, you are going to compare a man who made a comment and a man who didnt have time to meet with Denard and failure to buy rings with someone who ripped the university for pushing people to easier majors while he was doing similar things.
Hart, unfortunate with his comments, loves the school and never said one bad word about the school.. David Brandon while trying to search for a coach should have listen to Denard, but i think DB doesnt really listen to many students. The ring thing is a a disgrace, but he has never uttered anything against the university.
Harbaugh felt what was on his mind, I don't shy away from folks having an opinion.
I don't like Yes Men and I don't like folks who don't like others to have an opinion.
Btw, did Harbaugh's comments hurt Harbaugh or U of M? If you answer U of M then our alma mater is in bad shape to be harmed be 1 man.
I think the University was cast in a bad light, dont think it was a major setback. How do you think the people in the AD felt. If you think the people in the AD were happy with you, fair enough. He had all the power to effect a change without having made it so public. Ok, he did, and let everyone see our business out in public.
What was also hypocritical, he did some of the same things he accused our university of. If he had such a problem, why not change it as the head coach of Stanford. Was he really trying to incorporate change in our university, and the best way was to do it so in a public fashion.
It's not about yes men, he could have done it in private. And who said anything about opinions.
David Brandon while trying to search for a coach should have listen to Denard, but i think DB doesnt really listen to many students.
Listening to players' advice on hiring a coach is how you end up with guys like Brian Ellerbe. I love Denard but he wasn't in a position to know whom the best coach for the job was. He probably wouldn't have named Hoke if asked, but now I bet he's happy to have him as his coach.
You managed to bring your blind hatred of Dave Brandon into a thread on Harbaugh in the NFL. Impressive.
Hatin' on Brandon, what's up with that? Brandon is executive of the year for firing RR and replacing him with Brady Hoke. Home Run.
Apart from 3 and Out revelations, Brandon's blind drive to raise $$ for Michigan's AD department at any cost to tradition, plus his uncommon meddling in the football operations and media comments (eg complaining about OSU dual-coaching situation) is indicative of an imperial AD. But hey, others have differing opinion.
PS- hiring Hoke, if we all remember, was option 3 behind Harbs and Miles - remember that kitten "I can Haz Hoke?" on the MGo header? Yeah, very few saw a SDSU coach as a Sugar Bowl winning favorite.
The fact that few people saw Hoke's potential should be all the more credit to Brandon, who did. He didn't make the obvious hire; he made the smart hire.
Also, I don't think there is any evidence that we wanted Miles. It's not even clear if we offered Harbaugh the job or not.
Brandon was never going to offer either Harbaugh or Miles. At the time, LSU was under investigation by the NCAA for Miles' recruitment of a kid out of Sacramento, for which the NCAA found major violations last summer that cost LSU 2 scholarships and a year of probation. With Michigan being on probation, Brandon wasn't touching Miles with a 1,200 mile pole.
Brandon did his due diligence on Harbaugh too and found baggage too big to bring to Michigan. So he never offered Harbaugh either. Harbaugh made it clear that the NFL was his goal, and the 49ers obliged.
Brandon made only one offer, to our current coach. Hoke wasn't #3, he was #1.
Harbaugh didn't answer the call. I spit on his sansabelt slacks.
He wanted to be an NFL coach. He took a job at one of the league's top franchises. And he didn't even have to leave the Bay. If he had stayed at Stanford or spurned us for another college job, I would have been done with him. But I can't blame the man for follwing his dream.
With Hoke, we got someone who will be here for the long run. With Harbaugh, we would've had talk of a guy who might leave for the NFL for a while. The main difference between Harbaugh and Hoke was that Harbaugh is younger and still has a lot of ambition as far as coaching. Hoke knew where he wanted to be. I think it worked out for all parties because Hoke came here and was successful. Harbaugh has had success and he did not have to uproot his family.
...is that the part of the job Hoke likes best is the teaching aspect and the part Harbaugh likes best is the chess match against the other team's coaching staff. Each of them is coaching at the level he'd prefer and for which he's best suited.
Harbaugh has done a whole lot to change the culture of the team. I don't know how many philosophical difference he had with Mike Singletary, but he's really instilled confidence in Alex Smith and made his players play hard for him and each other. I can't speak highly enough about what he's done with the Niners. It'll be very interesting to see how they do next week.
I don't get it, the man insults our program and everyone still loves him. eff Harbaugh!
You have to take the bad with the good with Jim, because he doesn't care about any of that political or social custom stuff. He's a really cocky guy and could probably use some humbling. (if that is even possible) His critics are right and his supporters are right. It's a testimony to his ability that the most fanatically loyal people are his players, or when he played, his teammates. The fans of the team he is associated with, love him too.
Despite his boorish tendencies at times, I still love the guy and he is definitely in my top 5 all time favorite Michigan players.
It's because he's a competitor. He cares about his players and he builds the team concept, but he's also a competitor and wants the most out of his team. I love that. Furthermore, his work with Alex Smith this year has been nothing short of phenomenal. Smith was a guy who was lacking in confidence and Harbaugh has him built up. Smith's performance yesterday was fantastic. He led that team. A lot of that has come from being coached up.
Watching him on the sidelines, you can tell just by reading his lips that every other word coming out of his mouth is a curse, both when he's upset and when he's happy.
i thought he actually kind of looked nervous all day, very un-Harbaugh like. But they snuck out a win, so good for him. He has done well, way beyond expectations.
That said, he still is obviously a butt head (and that was better when he was *our* butt head).
has made it in the big city. *sniff* I can't say I am fond of the man but he has followed his NFL aspirations and is making a name for himself.
Harbaugh is who he is. He's an uber-competitive, loudmouth blowhard with a frat boy attitude, but that's part of what makes him a great coach. No matter what he may have said, at the end of the day he's a Michigan Man who did a lot of great things for us.
I'm happy for him, and I'll be happy to see him dominate the league in the future (though this year, I would rather see Tom Brady get his fourth ring).
All Michigan Men stand a little taller today because of what Jim Harbaugh has accomplished. Listen to "Lumpers" when he says Harbaugh is a true Michigan Man. He is blue through and through. The criticism of the Michigan two-tiered academic system- athletes vs. others- was taken out of context and mutilated by the "Michigan Mob." I know because indirectly I precipitated the comments by simply asking Jim, a dear friend, the difference between recruiting at Stanford and our beloved Michigan. His answer was simple (Bo discouraged him from a desired History major), direct (he had 16 engineering majors on his first Stanford roster and later as many as 23- Michigan had few) and to the point that even at places like Michigan something is surrendered in the name of athletics. The very next day a San Francisco paper called and asked a similar question. The day following the Ann Arbor News picked it up and contorted the sentiment it expressed. The rest is history. As Jim's friend and a proud Law School alum, I was appalled at what happened next- the vilification of Jim. He was right and he spoke the truth. To criticize one who forces you to confront your own inherent weaknesses and who wants you to get better has become a Michigan trap. Michael Hart, also a great Michigan Man, fell in to it by denouncing Jim. Why? Because he spoke a truth none of us wanted to hear? "Come on, Man"! We're "Michigan for ' Chrissakes!" We make ourselves better and celebrate our Michigan successes. BTW, I was at the Niners' playoff game with my favorite Michigan Man last night and celebrated his win afterwards with him in true Michigan style. Not a day goes by that this guy's blood isn't True Blue, trust me AND the facts. Hell, his Dad even gave our newest Michigan Man and Secretary of Defense, Greg Mattison, HIS start. Lastly, don't buy in to the myth that you can't win with men who have the brains to be true Michigan Men. Jim exploded this myth at Stanford. In fact, Andrew Luck chose Stanford BECAUSE Jim would allow his engineering major!
Allow me to concur and present my summation of your well written passage.
Jim Harbaugh can talk the talk because he walks the walk.
Brady Hoke. brings much joy and gladness to my heart, but I so wanted Michigan to successfully court Harbaugh, who knew that he would become so white hot at the end of the last season. I am very glad Coach Hoke leads Michigan he gets it, looking back on the whole thing Brady Hoke is what Michigan needs and vice versa.
I figured that Harbaugh's Rah Rah style wouldn't carry over to the pro's, boy was I wrong.
I thought the 49ers would be in the running for the Andrew Luck bowl instead they are in the NFC championship game.
Congrats Jim you are always true blue in my heart!
Format next time please, block text is not fun to read. You may know him, but call me skeptical that you, " celebrated his win afterward with him in true Mchigan style"
Also steers players. And those numbers just weren't true-
Stanford players mainly are in less demanding classes too.
And I find your story a little implausible that you'd ask a question that a major paper would just happen to ask the next day.
Not holding it against Harbaugh overall, and he's good at what he does, but it was a dick move.
And one more point on Harbaugh's love for Michigan and the culture Harbaugh has created in San Francisco with his Niners team? What do you think was on the cover of yesterday's Forthy-Niners playoff game program? " The Team, The Team, The Team!" I've heard Jack Harbaugh imitate the great Bo many times with his impression of it.
Since I can't start one. But does a real Michigan man do this?
You don't speak ill of the family outside of the family.
He definitely violated that rule.