played out of his mind tonight- so happy that he finally got to #400- he may be the most underappreciated goalie in the history of the NHL.
OT: Chris Osgood gets #400
Red Wings suck! I'll be at the Jan 10th game when the Avs get their revenge.
slash you across the buttocks!
Foote had that same clueless look on his face tonight as the game winner hit the back of the net for the Wings.
Hmm.. I see what you did there..
And i would have to agree!
...this has to be my favorite moment as a Red Wing fan. Vernon drawing Roy's blood in the same fight would be third.
Jesus, what a fight.
+1 for posting, I haven't watched that one in a while. Love seeing Roy bleed.
Then why do they keep losing to the Wings?
Even when the Wings suck, like tonight, they are still better than the Avs.
Good for him. He deserved and earned the win tonight. Great to see all the players mob him after. Hopefully he continues to play as good as he did tonight...
I still very much enjoy beating them as usual.
I was really worried after he let let in the first two goals, especially the second, but he was outstanding for the remainder.
It was nice to see Ozzie get his 400th win and the Wings played well too for having played the night before. Lidstrom was on fire tonight.
Makes me a bit sad that hockey is so unpopular around here (America in general). Maybe lockouts in other sports will increase interest.
Regardless, Ozzie played posessed tonight and deserves every bit of that win.
49 shots? Are you kidding me?
I think once the NHL gets a decent tv deal (ESPN), popularity will definitely go up. Also moving some of these southern hockey teams to Canada would be good too. I think Americans would much rather watch a Winnipeg team or Quebec City team over, Phoenix, Miami, Atlanta, etc. I would love to see the Jets and Nordicks get revived.
But I do find the Avalanche to take a back seat to everything else here in Denver even though the Broncos suck and Nuggets will suck when they lose Melo.
It would be a good idea to move Phoenix and Atlanta to Quebec and Winnipeg (knowledgeable markets that actually give a crap about hockey). I would keep the Lightning in Tampa (so I can continue to get good and cheap seats when I visit). The Panthers will make a good team in Hamilton when the Leafs finally relent and/or the Sabres finally (or is that inevitably) fail.
I blame Bettman for all of this bs.
Definatly waited a while to get #400, but he absolutely deserved it tonight. The powerplay and his fantastic play got the win tonight. Kinda fitting he picked it up on a night where he played great against the Avs, given the Wings history against them in the past. On another note, Nick is still the best defensemen in the game.
I do have to laugh at the Red Wings suck chant by the Avs fans tonight. They do realize this is no longer a rivalry anymore, largely due to the Avs not being relevant for a number of years now. The Avs do have some good young talent, but they just haven't been a factor in the Western Conference for the last several years.
I wouldn't get too cocky in this "non-rivalry" if I were you. The team that the Colorado organization has put together is going to be good for a long time if they continute to make the right decisions.
Of course, I have confidence in Ken Holland and the rest of the Red Wings front office to continue making the correct moves as well. I wasn't implying the Av's won't be relevant at some point in the future, just pointing on how stupid it is to chant that when the Av's haven't done anything for the last several years.
And regardless of what the Av's and Wings are in the future, the games between them will still never be at that level again. Definatly miss the pure hatred and animosity the teams had towards one another, but it just isn't a heated rivarly anymore. Only a few players remain from those great battles.
Kenny Holland is the best GM in pro sports.
Mike Babcock is the best coach in the NHL.
The Wings have the best scouting staff in the league.
The Illitches are fantastic owners.
And once Holland retires, Stevie Y will return and keep the show rolling.
The Wings, barring a dose of "oh the humanity", are set for a while.
Yzerman returning would be incredible. Definitely seems like the rare player that can handle the big time front office jobs as well. I look forward to seeing him in red again.
Ozzie stood on his head tonight.
I find it amazing that this guy is still around right now. After losing his starter spot when the Wings traded for Hasek, never saying anything bad about the organization before resigning for $1M, and now accepting his role as a mentor, I couldn't be happier for this guy. Here he comes, Grant Fuhr!
I like Chris Osgood; he seems like a good guy and a decent player but let's not get all crazy here. The Hall of Fame is for the greatest players of all time not the local favorites.
Let's see...two cups as a starter...named to three all star teams...leads league in GAA once and wins once...10th all time in wins playing most of his career with an elite team.
I'm sorry but these are the credentials of a good player hardly a Hall of Fame candidate. On the downside, never considered a candidate for the Olympic team; second fiddle when Hasek and Vernon were healthy.
Good player, good guy by all reports...not Hall of Famer.
... but if you compare his stats, his goals against average, his win % against other goalies in the hall of fame he holds his own. To say that Grant Fuhr, Sawchuck, and Plante did not play on stacked teams is also highly arguable.
Sorry, unconvinced. I realize he is the local favorite but the Hall of Fame is for all time greats.
Sawchuk was only the greatest goalie of all time (note his cups not just in Detroit but also Toronto where he played with a decent but not great Leafs team), Plante only revolutionized the postion and Fuhr...I'll give you that one...he rode Gretzky's coat tails. Then again, Andy Moog's stats aren't far off Osgood's so I'd be careful about that.
Damn, the idea of comparing Sawchuk and Osgood in the same sentence...
I'm giving you cold, hard facts. His goals against avg, his winning percentage, and his total wins puts him smack in the middle if not the upper quartile of all hall of fame goalies. How is that local favorite? If the hall of fame is only for "fame", I'll grant you that he's never been high profile. If the Hall of Fame is for great players who have the greatest statistics, he has to be considered.
If Osgood had these stats playing for a team like Boston or Vancouver nobody would question his greatness. Unfortunatley for Ozzie, he plays for what is unquestionably the best team in the past 20 years of hockey. It's possible, even likely, that Osgood's stats are inflated because the team he plays for is so damn good.
The question is whether Ozzie is that good, or if any competent goalie would have similar stats playing for detroit. I'm curious to see if this "Red Wing Effect" is a real thing.
FWIW, in the brief time he played for the blues and the islanders, Osgoods GAA and S% were 2.67 and .900. His career stats are 2.49 and .905. All his other seasons were with Detroit.
Those stats to me don't really scream "local favorite." He's in elite company as far as I'm concerned, he has been consistently good. You could consider Hasek and Vernon better players overall and I would agree, I also have to say neither was as consistent as Ozzy, and that has to count for something.
HOF all the way. 400+ seals it along with the two cups as a starter, along with a third in Vernie's swan song. 30+ wins in seasons with both the Blues and Islanders proves he could perform on average to below-average teams. Career save percentage better than Fuhr, Billy Smith, and Esposito - all Hall of Famers. Smith and Fuhr both played on great teams and were not penalized for it. Neither should Ozzy. Twice as many SOs as both Fuhr and Smith too. The only players above Ozzie in wins not in the Hall are Brodeur (obvs in once he retires), Belfour, and Cujo. Latter two are not yet eligible (need three playing seasons since retirement), but both will probably get in even though Cujo is cupless. Interesting that all three are very closely ranked in save percentage - Belfour .9064, Cujo .9061, Osgood .9050.
The Anti-Ozzie in HOF meme has always struck me as being anti-Red Wing BS.
I've always thought if Billy Smith and Grant Fuhr were HOFers, so is Osgood.
I'm with you on Ozzie being HOF material... his total wins and cups put him in. However, you can't compare his GAA and Save % stats to Smith and Fuhr who played the bulk of their careers in the 70's or 80's. Just look at the NHL goals per game average by year: http://www.dropyourgloves.com/Stat/LeagueGoals.aspx
Then compare him to Cujo and Belfour who are same era and locks to get in. Any way you slice it the HOF jacket (or whatever the give to hockey HOFers) will fit very nicely.
However, I disagree with save % stat claim that you make. If anything, Ozzie's numbers in this area are undervalued. Playing on a puck possession team like the Wings, Ozzie often faced a relatively low number of shots, but a higher percentage were sudden change opportunities, or quality scoring chances after turnovers. Anyway, a save is a save, and his percentage is HOF-worthy when viewed along with his wins. Wings were never the type of team to hunker down and allow the other team to control the puck and take low percentage shots all day. He never had that luxury. That is why I never used GAA as a justification. In fact, Fuhr's numbers are probably most applicable as a result of the above.
30+ wins in seasons with both the Blues and Islanders proves he could perform on average to below-average teams.
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with this. The 2001-2002 Islanders were a 96 point team (and Osgood's numbers were almost identical to his backup's). The 2002-2003 Islanders were an 8th seed and Osgood wasn't even the starter that year (he was the 2B of the tandem with Garth Snow, with significantly worse numbers than Snow). His time with St. Louis in 2002-2003 certainly don't help his case. At all. His numbers in St. Louis that season were worse than his numbers in New York that season, plus St. Louis had seven goaltenders start games that year and Osgood's numbers put him decisively sixth out of the seven. That was 99 point team that finished fifth in the West. I will give you that 2003-2004 was a pretty good year for him, on an average team. I just don't see how you can say that he did what he did in 2001-2002 and 2003-2004 was on "average to below-average teams" when those were 96 and 99 point teams, respectively.
On the 01-02 Islanders, Ozzie had 32 of the team's 42 total wins. In addition, he did this while compiling a 2.50 GAA and a .910 save %. All of the above clearly superior to his back-up's paltry 10-7 record with a 2.70 GAA and .900 save %. This was a nicely average 96 point 5th seed team in the East.
On the 03-04 Blues, Ozzie compiled 31of the teams 39 wins that year with a stellar 2.24 GAA and .910 save %. All of this on a team that was below average (21 of 30 teams) in scoring goals, and was a below-average seventh seed in the West (won tie-breaker with Preds to avoid worst seed) with 91 points.
Your characterization of the 02-03 season in St. Louis is disingenuous. He was brought in at the trade deadline and only played 9 regular season games as a result. As for the playoffs, of course, he was the guy and turned in a solid 2.45 GAA and .907 save %.
That is the problem. There was always somebody better than Ozzie. But then when you look at the facts, and when the chips are down, he was the guy.
There was always somebody better than Ozzie.
That, right there, is the reason he won't be in the HOF. He has been an outstanding goaltender, but he's never been among the best goaltenders that have played during any portion of his career. He has had some good seasons, and some good playoffs, but he has not typically put the solid play together consistently enough, or often enough, especially in the regular season, to be amongst that elite group. The problem, really, for his situation, and ultimately why he won't get in, is explemified perfectly by the entirety of both of your posts: if you have are making the argument that he played better than Garth Snow and Brent Johnson as support for him being in the HOF, and if he hasn't typically been the best goaltender on his own team, he isn't going to get into the HOF.
Point is that he WAS always the best option, even after the trendy, more popular options were tried and cast aside. That is exactly the reason he will be added to the HOF after the second or third ballot. At some point, you cannot rationalize the long list of accomplishments and statistics. Ozzie is long past that point. Under your rationale, all dynastic goaltenders would be barred because all of their accomplishments were due to the powerful teams that played in front of them. At some point, they need to be credited with the success along with the rest of their teammates. According to your line of reasoning, goodbye Fuhr, Smith, Dryden, Esposito and more. This simply does not make sense. Also, your claims of lack of consistency, etc. lack data and statistics, and are based upon some vague gut feel, and probably some hidden bias. My posts and argumments are based upon cold, hard statistics which cannot be refuted. This is why he will ultimately get in. After his career ends, and the bias is cast aside after a few ballots, his resume will speak for itself and will be undeniable.
his .905 career save %, 2.49 GAA, 50 shutouts, and 400 wins put him in some pretty good company. Those numbers are better than Fuhr's, Billy Smith's, Giacomin's, and he's not far off from Esposito.
Yeah, I'm with you, Clarkie. He's not the type of player where it's fair (or appropriate) to just look at his stats and make a HOF decision. He's been the beneficiary of playing behind some incredibly talented teams throughout most of his career. All of that said, however, my stance on players going to the HOF is this: if a player isn't considered a HOF lock by the vast majority of people within the hockey community, the player isn't HOF worthy. At best, Osgood is a guy who is on the fence (i.e. about half would say he is worthy and about half would say he isn't worthy) and to me, the decision on those types of players, no matter who it is and why they played for, should be that they aren't HOF worthy players. In my opinion, the HOF should be reserved for the best of the best players and identifying those players really shouldn't cause much debate.
Well, we better take alot of people out of the HOF then.
People seem to not want to reward a guy because he was on some great teams (although Fuhr and Smith seem to have rewarded by playing on some great teams). However, i don't think we should punish guys for being on great teams either. I personally think he deserves to go to the HOF, but I also don't think he'll get in. It won't affect my view of him and what type of player i stink he was, nor will any Red Wings remember him less fondly.
Well, we better take alot of people out of the HOF then.
I completely agree with that.
As for the rest of what you've said, I agree that there is a tendency to hold that against players on those teams, but I think that's where Clarkie's points really make a big difference. If you look at the categories that are decided by people within the game, such as the ones that he lists, Osgood has almost always been on the outside looking in, and those factors, frankly, should matter a lot more than wins and losses when it comes to HOF decisions.
Very happy to see him get #400.. I'll never understand the fuckbags who call in to the local radio shows to rag on Ozzie.. He's won 2 cups here as a starter, won the vast majority of his 400 as a Red Wing, and never complained once as he was shuffled in and out as the starting goalie over the years. Go Ozzie!
My only knock against Osgood is the occasional soft goal he would let in. It seemed like early in his career, he had the tendency to wander and not be in the game at points. But I guess can understand that when you are facing less than 20 shots per game. But then on the flip side, he would make some pretty incredible saves.
But I think what bothered some of hte sports radio types was the series against San Jose where he cried...or something like that.
Congrats and kudos to Chris. He has been the consummate professional throughout his career.
Ozzie's one of my all-time favorite Wings. Gotta love the loyalty he showed to the organization by coming back even after being dumped a bit unceremoniously. My biased opionion says he should be a lock for the HoF by maybe his third or fourth year of eligibility, and others above have shown the stats to back it up.
I got this one of Osgood's first couple of years in the league. It's now proudly displayed in my office. Coolest thing Burger King ever gave away (minus the autograph, of course, which was procured when my grandmother sold him a house).
Since the Avs fan threw down the Gauntlet....Did you know that both Yzerman and Shanahan scored their 500th goals against one Mr. Roy.
Playoffs are where great goalies are made. Ozzie is truly a great playoff goalie. Ranked #8 in wins with 74, and a stellar 2.09 GAA and .916 save %. As a comparison, Patty "Statue of Liberty" Roy had a 2.30 GAA and .918 save % in his stellar playoff career. Also, Ozzie is 4th all-time with 15 career playoff shut-outs.
At some point, and Ozzie is far past that point, the stats do not lie, and the facts completely overwhelm the anti-Red Wing bias. He waltzes in easily on the third ballot or so.