No longer a fan, huh?
OT - Career Advice/ Living Location
Fan of M, no doubt. NYC, I see it as a great place to visit, but for me not so much to live.
btw, I also feel that since I am fortunate to have a job in this economy I need to be thankful and appreciate what I do have even if it is not an ideal situation.
it could get a lot worse too.
I love thick-headed "bears." I guess I like thick-headed "bulls" too. When the market was going up there was always at least one analyst who thought we were on pace to throw out the record books. Once things turn sour, here comes a pessimist who sees a long great depression. The media then fans the flames of fear.
Linear thinking is for the birds. Plus, drawing an analogy between completely different periods of times (different markets) based on one out of a thousand facts is also just plain dumb.
Those who think we are living in the past are doomed to repeat it.
Who is hiring people besides the government? How well are college grads getting jobs? What about the global economy?
If you think that we are going back up to s&p highs this year you are delusional.
Also those who forget the best are doomed to repea it.
If your chosen field can be pursued in a variety of cities, I'd say work long enough in NYC to build your resume and work credentials, and then move to a place whose lifestyle matches your preferences.
If your field is inherently a high-pressure one that demands being in a place like NYC (finance/investment, for example), you might have to make your peace with the Big Apple.
Whatever you do, I'd recommend moving or making your decision before you get married and have kids, if that's something you want to do. Once you get hitched and start changing poopy diapers, your options for moving become more constrained.
When i was living in Michigan i visited NY a couple of times and both times i didnt understand what all the fuss was about. I mean it depends on what you like. If you like a lot of noise, be on the move the whole time, than NY is for you. If you are the quiet/outdoor but wants to still have fun on the weekends kinda guy than NY is not for you.
Maybe all this was beacouse i got so used to the laid back life in Michigan. The city where i live now is kinda like NY in the sense that is very noisy and moving the whole time so maybe if i went to NY now it would be a different story. My advice: If you feel stressed out, not feeling like working than its not worth to stay so many years just for a chance that maybe maybe you will make it.
Who knows you might make it no matter where you are
I saw the thread title and thought to myself "must steer this poor soul from NY!" Lo and behold that was the topic.
I was born in an upstate county and moved to LI when I was about 5. I never fit in and hate it there to this day, but now I have more concrete reasons besides "high school blows!"
1. Taxes. I'm sure you've experienced this but you may literally be taxed to death in NY.
2. New Yorkers. We're not all bad... but this one speaks for itself. Whenever my midwest-raised friends come out here they're floored by the lack of decency running rampant in southern NY. Also, you don't want your future kids (should you find a non-psycho NY woman) to end up as one of these monsters.
3. Not sure where you work, but a lot of the bigger NY companies have branches in Chi or Philly, which have suburbs that may be more to your liking and not as back-breakingly expensive. And for the love of all things holy, if you don't like NYC don't even consider LI suburbs... I'm paying $700 a month for a basement room and I'm boxed in by obnoxious 'Jersey Shore' extras. At work all I can hear is LI accents and people did not understand when I said 'pop' or 'yall' instead of the accepted 'youse.'
/sad I'm leaving my long weekend in Ann Arbor to go back to the Long Island cave.
A colleague of mine used to have a theory on how or why their residents got to be such assholes. For him, it comes down to tourists. A place with a lot of tourists means, naturally, a whole bunch of people walking around like lost sheep, asking questions of hurried people who are not on vacation, (and have a place they needed to be 5 minutes ago) and speaking in a language they don't, (along with the requisite attitude that goes along with expecting the residents of a foreign country to speak the language you brought from yours).
That doesn't excuse the lack of common decency in a place like New York, but considering all of the other ways in which New Yorkers are put upon, (outrageous rent and taxes, hurried pace of life, etc.) its not surprising that humans should be stripped of their humanity after a while.
I used to work for a company headquartered in Midtown. I'd visit our offices there about once a month. It was great to be a visitor, but most people with a family highly encouraged me, were I ever to work in NYC, to live in Connecticut or the Princeton, NJ area.
...and other people hassling you for various reasons. I moved to downtown Toronto a couple of years ago. If I leave home, I'm very likely to encounter at least one person begging for money, and on a trip of any length by several people. I may be hassled in other ways, depending on the time of day, where I go, etc.
Tourists I find to be a relatively minor nuisance. They do tend to get in my way on the sidewalk.
Overall, though, I love it. Then again I'm not working 80 hour weeks.
Interestingly, Canadians outside of Toronto hate Toronto. This includes many suburbanites.
To find someone hassling you for money. You can be at any stop light in America.
Like Manhattan or downtown Toronto, where in some neighborhoods it may be at every corner.
There's also a difference when you have to walk by versus driving by. It's usually (not always) easier to just drive by.
Oh I completely understand the tourist issue (spent my high school years in the hamptons, now those tourists are the worst), but honestly it's just the culture. I have a friend from Yonkers who is easily the loudest (and according to my parents, most obnoxious) girl I have ever met... and then I met her family. Something tells me it wasn't tourist exhaustion. I myself have occasionally warned bothersome people not to make me 'go New York on their ass,' and I have terrible road rage inherited from my parents and the environment I learned to drive in.
FWIW people from my high school think I'm totally insane for loving Michigan and loathing NY.
I get that a lot too. The funny thing is that those I know from Michigan who have moved here are in the same boat you and I are. I am not sure why NYC has such an allure to it as I would have to agree growing up I thought that was the place everyone wanted to be. As stated in an earlier post though, if I pay my dues the NYC experience should pay off down the road.
Apologies. Go Tigers, 5-1 in the first.
Whether it be in NY or transferring elsewhere. Others suggested different boros, if the commute isn't too bad that's a good idea too. Right now I'm just interning but my employer's other main locations are in California, Florida and Maryland... not sure if those options are better or worse after I graduate.
When I was a student at U-M many moons ago, (probably before you were born, yeesh) I lived in South Quad. The number of people from the NYC boroughs was incredible. Many, (not all) had the "I'm-from-NYC-and-you're-not" attitude. Naturally, they'd be reminding everyone how much better things are in NYC than anywhere else. Finally, most of us would suggest to them that the road also has eastbound lanes and they were welcome to try them out anytime.
By the way, I believe you mentioned once that you are an Aero E student. I am old enough to have had Harm Buning as a professor for my senior spacecraft design course, Gerald Faeth as my academic advisor, and William Kauffman as a mentor. If you are ever so (un)fortunate to have Werner Dahm as your Prop III instructor, pray.
They complained about the inferiority of midwest pizza and bagels? Guilty as charged, those are the only things I miss when I'm away at school.
My grandparents are both from Detroit and went to UM in the 50s. In fact, my nana was in the first hall of women allowed in East Quad, the first coed dorm.
That long ago. And they still said the New Yorkers thought rather highly of themselves and their fancy clothes.
As far as the aero profs go, I do recall the name Harm Buning, not sure if he gave a seminar last year but I don't think any of them still teach. If you know of Ken Powell I was in his gas dynamics course in the winter and learned a lot. He normally teaches the upper level classes so it was lucky on my part. I've only had one negative experience with a professor so far, and she was brand new and made homework due at the beginning of her 8:30 Friday lecture, among other things.
Well, the pizzas around campus suck. If you've got a car, head out to Tomatoes Apizza in Farmington Hills. Coal-fired ovens, a la NYC. Still not quite as good, but respectable.
Harm Buning and Gerald Faeth both passed away within the past few years. I think the Department has named prizes, awards and/or scholarships in their memories. Ken Powell was a new prof when I was a student. He joined the Department at the start of my junior year and taught one of my aerodynamics classes. Good teacher.
I actually have tried Tomatoes and it was the best non-deep dish I've had in the midwest. In high school I worked in an italian family owned pizzeria/deli and as a result evolved into a mega pizza snob. I'm dating a guy from the UP and made him try our pizza when he came to visit so he would finally understand the fuss.
It must be awards that I recognized the names from then. If you don't mind me asking, where (geographically) are you working with your aero degree? I'm starting to think California might be inevitable, and I have family out there, but I don't know what it would be like living there.
These days, I'm a management consultant with a very large firm, so I don't use my Aero degree as much as I would have liked. And I am certainly not doing what I thought I would after I graduated. Anecdotally, probably less than half of my classmates are in the aerospace field these days.
When I graduated, jobs in the field were very scarce. I had one friend get a job with NASA (he had co-op'd) and another with Boeing. Still another is now the Large Car Marketing Manager at Ford, after having been an engineer in product development. I took a job with an engineering software company, and put my engineering skills to use differently than I had imagined. Being analytical and synthesizing creative solutions to problems is what ultimately got me into consulting. Its a perfect fit.
Geographically, your options in aerospace are not limited to California, at least not SoCal. If taxes aren't your thing, though, stay away altogether.
Colorado, Utah, Washington, Georgia, Texas, Florida, Missouri and Alabama are other hot beds of the aero industry. There is also an emerging industry in New Mexico, and (if you can stand it) Ohio is a good place, too.
I was actually hoping to end up in Colorado or Utah since I love to ski. I'm lucky enough to have an internship with a rather large defense contractor (and next summer as well if I don't mess anything up), and they have offices in Florida as well. Ironically enough Ohio would be ok if only for the proximity to Michigan and therefore the ability to be a season ticket holder.
Well, the pizzas around campus suck.
I'll not stand for anyone denigrating Pizza House (however implicitly). Cottage Inn, OTOH, is a little overrated.
It's just, "there is absolutely nothing in this state other than the University of Michigan. How could anyone possibly stand to live in the midwest?"
The first couple of conversations with a girl I met from NYC on campus entailed of
A) how she dreaded the deadness of North Campus and Bursely and switched to South Quad before Welcome Week was done, and
B) a five-pagessay she wrote in English for which the main theme and most research was done on the proper term of the beverage that stupid midwesterners insist on calling "pop"
A few years back, I went the opposite way - from growing up in suburban Milwaukee to going to school in Manhattan. Now, Milwaukee is no New York City, to be sure, but I grew up on a city block with a pretty good understanding of urban life, and absolutely no idea how to milk a cow.
So you can imagine how surprised I was to have kids from Long Island and Westchester asking me "How do you like living in the biiiiiiig ciiiity?" in approximately the same slow, singsong-y tones used to address a two-year-old.
I'm done with college and have a lot of friends from New York and the surrounding areas (who weren't like that for the most part), but it was a shock to learn that people really did think we Midwesterners didn't get out much and were sure in awe of their 'big-city' lifestyle
Urban hicks are the most annoying, though.
GTF outta there but not sure what arena you work in. It sounds like you are in a business field and the pressure must be significant. Would like to know more about what you do.
I work in finance and specifically work with alternative investments (not sales related). I think I am still a little slow to get out after watching 10 of my co-workers lose their jobs when I was working in Detroit for the same company. Of my group of 11, I was the only one asked to stay and relocate to NY. I have searched within my company to see if Chicago, LA or other big cities that would have a nearby suburban feel have any positions, but everything seems to be centralizing in NY.
I live in NYC my whole life and the only time I left was to go to school at Michigan. I work in finance as well, asset management to be more precise. As you well know the economy overall is pretty bad and finance will always have these swings. Get your experience and make as many contacts as possible and when the economy and finance market starts to improve then start exploring elsewhere, which means different cities. NYC is the epicenter, but there are plenty of places which have financial companies and you will be able to live the kind of life that you want.
I was born and raised in NYC, went to U of M and came back. Luckily I work for a consulting firm which has allowed me to work in places like Atlanta, Tampa, and Boston (effective this week!) At any rate, I don't know finance all that well, but if you could, you should consider Charlotte. I've heard great things.
My step-dad is in finance, and is originally from a small town of 250 people in Illinois, and he and my mom just recently moved to Connecticut after he spent 20+ years living in the City. My advice would be, have fun while you are here, if you're going to stay.
You don't have to live or hang out in Manhattan to have fun in the city. I know it's not the same, but there are golf courses in the Bronx or other boroughs. I grew up in the Lower East Side, and I myself can get annoyed with Manhattan. Lately, I've found myself going out to Bk... if you've never ridden (and drank on the SI ferry) I strongly recommend it.
I do a lot of random crap and go to random places in this city to keep myself sane, you should too. If you need any ideas, I've got plenty. Archery? Like to climb? Brooklyn Boulder.
Catskills/Adirondacks/Vermont is a short drive and easy weekend escape.
not a hamptons person
Agreed. Lake Placid is 5 hours, but well worth the trip for a long weekend.
Having an extra year in this situation under your belt, what are you thinking of doing. I don't want to come off as not motivated, I just see there being so much more to life than my spending 60+ hours working to come home to a roommate in an apartment.
I use to work 6am - 8 pm for a couple of years straight. After awhile, as you get promoted, the time alotment gets better. I thought about changing careers and working outside NYC. When you do that, sometimes, you can limit your opportunities. In finance, every company outside NYC wants in NYC person from my experience. Just be patient.
I have quite a few friends that have ended up in DC as well. Most of them love it but find that many 20-somethings there are hyper-networkers. ("What is your name, where did you go to school, who do you work for?") My friends say it's exhausting.
Aside from the insane cost of living, what are your other reasons for wanting to leave DC? I spent a summer out there and always thought I'd end up there eventually but now am not so sure.
I'm driving a 16 year old beat up toyota. If you see me honk!
move to queens?
Is that you?
you need to split time between MGOBLOG and EHARMONY???
Temporarlily of course.
I moved out to NYC from Michigan about 2 years ago solely because of economic opportunity and all in all I've been happy with life out here.
Of course I miss the midwest (you always miss home), but I live in the E Village / Alphabet City and find it extremely laid back and friendly. I can imagine, though, that if I lived in times square, the financial district, UES, Murray Hill, or especially LI I'd be going crazy as well.
It sounds like, however, you're bigger issue happens to be with your current employment situation. Back in Michigan I worked at a job for around 80 hours a week that I really wasn't happy in. Now I work around 60-70 hours a week building a company but I love what I do, and thus I'm happy with my life and even living in a cramped studio with my girlfriend when we could have something 4 times the size for the same price in another city.
Have you considered alternate career opportunities?
I really believe it is solely location. My hours are tolerable as I only work about 55 hours a week. If I could take my job and relocate it to another city I really think I would be happy. I am glad to hear that things are working out for you, I guess that I personally just expected more out of my life at this point.
To the poster above you, relationships are fine right now and I do not have a need for E-Harmony.
that you have a stable relationship. After divorce I found a great gal on EHarmony. She's a UNC grad but loves M football.
If further formal education an option for you?
I was in grad school nd had completed 3 classes and work then stopped paying. I am doing the CFA thing now and afterwards am not sure of where I will go. Congrats on the southern belle.
Having lived in the DC area, the midwest, the intermountain west, and now on the west coast, consider waiting for the economic conditions in California to bottom out. Most occupations in NYC have opportunities in both northern and southern CA, and for doing things outdoors tough to beat the climate. I've been impressed that many of the people I've gotten to know work in places that value good work/life balance - why live in a great place to be outdoors if you never see it? Good luck.
All I'll say is don't move backwards intentionally. You'll be bored. I'm getting ready to switch careers myself and plan on going back to school for my MBA in 2011 (come on Ross!).
Just don't do anything rash. Less money is fine, less work is fine, but make sure you still have to think and are challenged at work. I'm going back for my MBA primarily so I don't have to move backwards.
Kudos for moving to NYC. You sound like you don't enjoy it, but I don't think I would be able to do it. I have lived in Michigan my whole life, mostly in Kalamazoo, and I really like it. My brother lives in Chicago and it is fun to visit, but I don't think I would be able to live there. The cost of living in big cities, especially NYC, is insane. I am finishing up grad school in a couple of months and I am not too excited about the job prospects in Michigan. I have been thinking of looking in Indianapolis. It is a bigger city with more opportunities and I have family and friends that live there. I hope that the cost of living there won't be too out of control. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
and once I left for UofM I never looked back. Most of my family and several friends are still there. Can't beat the restaurants and culture (and, since you're obviously single, the nightlife) but to me not a fair trade for the high rent/real estate costs, heavy traffic to get anywhere, general cost of living (ridiculous the prices you have to pay just to go to ballgame) and the ridiculous work hours and the absolutely obnoxious people. If you think it sucks now, it only gets worse when you go to the suburbs. I think you clearly know you need to go...but the question is when and where.
As one of the other posters said, once you get tied down with the entaglements of a spouse and kids your mobility is severely limited. Now is the time to make any moves.
Further, one of the other posters was correct that your career will be limited by the cities that have significant finance jobs available and the awful economy. SO why don't you start eyeballing other jobs and if one comes open you're interested in, you can always pursue and if one comes along that looks like a good shot, take it.
NY really isn't for everyone, or frankly most people short of those who know nothing else and those who came from places that were stifling to them and they needed some of what only that city can provide in terms of creative and cultural outlets. Again if you're feeling that way as a young single man (which is really when NY is at its best) its only going to get worse. Plot your course out but don't do anything rash like quiting. Bide your time and wait for the right opportunity then kiss it goodbye. A word of caution, I have some friends from the northeast and midwest who live in southeastern cities (Atlanta, Charlotte, Tampa) who say they always feel like an outsider because they don't drawl.
As for places to go..I lived in Miami for several years. Fun when you're single but I wouldn't raise a kid there and never met a girl I wanted to be around for more than a few hours. I left after three years of law school then two years out. Just sick of the people and I prefer cold winters to 90 degree/90% humidity summers there. Suffers from many of the same annoying people and really a very flashy and fake place. I have several friends both single and married with kids) living in Denver who love it. I also think the world of Seattle but its so far from anything. I would live there in heartbeat if most of family and friends were not in the midwest and east coast. With both, I don't know what job options are availlable in your field. Everyone I know in Chicago loves it but the real estate ain't cheap. At least you get the big city benefits without the ridiculous work expectations. I also know a lot of people who did their single life in Chicago then if you marry come back to Michigan.......
I love metro detroit (I'm not far from the city you grew up) but I think its tough to be single here and jobs are DIFFICULT to come by right now.That said, you can live like a king here if you do land a good job and its really a great place to raise kids (plus having one excellent and one pretty good public university is nice compared to New Yorkers and New Jerseyites who HAVE to send their kids out of state or to a private school). It strikes me that since the city was such a run down place for nearly 30 years all the suburbs really developed (like Birmingham, Royal Oak, Milford, Saline, Northville) and, once you have kids, you live in the suburbs regardless of where you are. That was the one thing I hated about NYC, the suburbs were just residential sprawl with no downtowns or anything to do since everything was focused on the City. I've seen a bunch of people who grew up here and moved back here recently after building their resume elsewhere, getting married, having a kid or two and then landing a solid NON-AUTO INDUSTRY job (most were doctors, lawyers, accountants, a chef).
I hated working in NYC. It made me mean(er). Too many rats in a very small cage.
I traded it for Seattle. If I had to live in a city, I'd still be there. I would say it's 180 degrees from NYC, but it's actually more like another planet. The natives don't like outsiders, but they are so naturally polite it's hard to tell. The opportunities to get outdoors are endless: thousands of miles of trails for hiking and biking, sea kayaking from island to island in the Sound, the wilderness beaches on the Olympic peninsula . . . Ranier. Oh man, Ranier.
It has good culture and food. The sports aren't great, but that is what the Big Ten Network is for. (Speaking of which, you need to learn to watch football at 9am unless you are DVR-delaying.)
The traffic can be heavy, so you have to live close to work no matter how much it costs, but that's about the only drawback other than the weather. Despite what you've heard, it rarely really rains there (in the city, it rains like a mother up in the mountains or on the west side of the Olympic). It mists most mornings about nine months of the year. You don't see the sun rise very often, which depresses some people (like my lovely spouse, which is why we aren't still there). The temps are great: average of 2 days a year above 80 and 2 days a year below 32.
I've live in NYC as well and I am also considering leaving. Between the incredibly high taxes and the cost of living it does not make sense unless you have no choice (i.e. you do investment banking). I do not understand why so many hedge funds are located here. Like you I am also looking at places to move to, the only problem is that there are few jobs in finance outside of the city.
But it sucks to make good money in NYC only to save nothing, live in a 4th floor walkup hole in the wall.
Still the experience in the 20's and early 30's is so much fun in the NYC.
i think you already know the answer by posting this question. my only advice would be that if you decide to move out of NYC, make sure you have a job in hand first. i know too many bright people with a lot more experience than you seeking jobs right now. I live in chicago, and MI is even worse.
The ideal scenario is to hook up with an employer that has facilities all over the country. Stick with them for 5-8 years, and a couple moves. For instance, I thought I'd HATE the state of Washington, turns out my time there was a blast.
I hated Georgia, L.A. was tolerable but suffocating, and good old West Michigan turned out to be the place to put down roots and raise a family. Other than maybe Vermont/NH or a move back to Washington, I don't expect to ever leave here. Given your interests, there could be 100 places in the US more appealing.
Personally, I wouldn't go past age 30 in a place you don't like. Life is wayyyyyy to short. You get hooked up, find your dream house, have a few kids and the next thing you know you've been through a whirling time vortex that spits you out into some strange backyard, you're in your 40's with grill tongs in your hand and a killer beer gut, and some lady is all over your ass because the grass is too fucking long.
Good luck to you. Life's a cool-ass journey.
Dude, just do whatever you think will make you happier. That is really what it boils down to. You work to make money so you can be comfortable and happy, but if you aren't happy even when you aren't working, then you are missing the whole point of work.
I was transfered from Cleveland to Austin and I was excited after everything that I read.
It sucks, I hate it and I want to get back to the midwest.
Everyone has different opinions of places and such but you have to decide for yourself. I did't have much of a choice it was Topeka, Tallahassee or Austin and I chose wrong this time but that's just me.
Being in NY you may not be saving a whole lot but atleast you have SOMETHING.
Good luck, I saw TOOL in Cedar Park a week ago and Maynard said everything is going to work out so that made me feel much better.
When the time is right, you won't need our advice. Make more of an effort to get out of the city on short trips-sometimes stepping out of the fire has a way of cooling your feet.
... don't trade in your 20's to build a foundation. It's just not worth it. You can get extremely valuable experience doing things that you enjoy. That being said, each person's situation is unique, so do what you think is best given where you want to be.
We moved to Seattle 3 years ago, and we absolutely love it. It has everything you could ask for -- except sun -- and has brought a level of sanity to our lives that did not exist in larger cities.
I've lived in a number of places around the country, and for me (though admittedly this is based on my own personality), one rule has remained ironclad: The farther away I get from New York City, the happier I feel and the nicer everybody seems to be. California > Minneapolis > Chicago > New York.
Doesn't work for everybody but it does for me.
Flying out to NYC next Monday to look for a place to stay for the 3 months I am there on an internship (the actual gig begins on the 19th). The office I am working at is in Long Island City, Queens. I have been scouring the craigslists and other sites but havent found much. Looking for something around 1500 month/preferably furnished til November, looking Greenpoint, Billyburg, midtown east, and Astoria- if you guys have any leads it would be greatly appreciated!
I found my basement/cave through craigslist but try some of the local papers too. I think Newsday has online listings.