Seems as if they have as good of a reason as any other.
OT: Campus Unrest in Happy Valley?
I wasn't aware that people who support sexually abusing children should be supported.
there's a big difference between support and willful indifference/ignorance/silence
there's a big difference between support (yay, keep it up) and being a giant coward. not in a moral manner, ie one's a good person one's a bad, but still an important semantic to not get caught throwing around. Paterno would not be a supporter of these efforts (and may have been the reason the peder was blackballed from coaching) but is also an asshat of various proportions for not doing what was right.
You allowing him to continue his activities, period, and specifically at your place of business, thereby adding aid and support to the continuing of these acts. Acts that would have been stopped without your support. You don't have to be a pedophilia cheerleader to support the activities. By doing nothing you're adding your tacit consent.
Can't wait for LSUfreek
That's what she said.
Willful ignorance and letting a man who was caught raping a child in your facilities to continue to use them, let alone bringing his victims to said facilities.
Watch sportscenter. They were outside his house cheering, chanting "we are ... penn state" and singing the 7 nation army chorus. Despicable.
Not a fan of Gregg Doyel but he had a good blog up today about the rally for JoePa
Most notable part to me from a conversation with a PSU student:
Her: Oh my god! He did what he was supposed to do! He told his boss!
Me: That was the bare minimum, and if you think that's great, I don't know what to tell you.
Her: I don't think it's great, I just think ... put it this way: Would you have called the police? Really? Would you?
Me: Of course. It's not even a question.
Yes, random PSU student, typically when informed of allegations of sexual abuse, you endeavour to contact authorities ASAP. Informing your boss is wise if in the workplace, but then you better damn well make sure they inform authorities...and so on... It concerns me that this needs to be explained to anyone old enough and competent enough to be attending university (or grade school)...
As I've always suspected, repeated listenings to 7NA turns one into an idiot.
Take note DB.
Oh shut up! JoePa, to me, was a person I looked up to. He was my favorite coach in the big ten. Now I'm not going to run around supporting him, but I'm certainly not going to sling mud at him name especially since I don't know the whole story. Now if I, a distant admirer, am still in denial, imagine how his fans feel. Think of it, he's been there for decades, JoePa IS Penn State.
Again, I hate sex offenders as much as the next guy and I am not supporting him, but JoePa is not an evil person and certainly does not support sexually abusing children. He made a very very stupid decision to not report this digusting crime and should be fired for it. It's just sad to see him go this way.
The decision was beyond stupid; it was immoral. It's not like you can have good intentions in not reporting child molestation to the police.
allowed victims 3 to 9, but just today the number of potential victims has more than doubled with lots of new testimony has come in by other children who said they were abused by Sandusky.
Schulz the look-a-like teacher from Ferris Beuhlers Day Off
Played by Jeffrey Jones who ironically, and unfortunately, is also a pederast.
Clearly you do not hate sex offenders as much as I do.
And this is not a situation where you can pull a switzerland and just stay out of it. You are either with him (Sandusky) or you are against him. JoePa with his actions or lack there of, especially after he saw NOTHING being done, has clearly shown that he is with him.
Although I understand the students ire with the situation, I just hope more people don't get hurt due to the actions of this one scumbag.
about a thousand students were outside JoePa's house in support, I would guess not.
This to defend JoPa... seems like a bunch of bored college kids doing something they think sounds cool, to me.
Have you been to State College? This march is probably the most exciting that's happened there in two decades.
State College gives me the heebie jeebies. It's like something M. Night Shamalamadingdong would dream up.
A Pennsylvania thing...
He was alive for the first 10 minutes or so.
This seriously made me laugh. Imaginary plus one.
If they're rallying to support Paterno. I hope that is not true because if it is, I just couldn't think of the words to express my disgust and outrage.
They are. And, yeah...
Say something like this happened to Bo. People would be supporting him just like people are still rallying around JoePa
Then I would want nothing to do with it.
This didn't "happen" to Coach Paterno. He's being blamed for his own inaction, of which he was in complete control.
Bo wouldn't have sat by while something like this went on, like Paterno did. Your hypothetical is invalid.
99% of PSU fans would say, and understandably, this would never happen to JoePa. it's easy to claim 100% certainty in hypotheticals
The good thing about Bo is that he would have likely broke Sandusky's jaw, then called the police.
You can also tell because "B" comes before "J" in the alphabet.
Yes it was. And the fact that they were chanting "Joe-O-O-O-O-O" to the tune of Seven Nation Army makes it even more vomit inducing.
If I was rioting and wanted to sing, Sweet Caroline would be far, far down on the list of things I would sing.
A song with lyrics "touching me/ touching you" and written for Caroline Kennedy when she was 11 years old is not a song that anyone in State College should be singing right now.
I can't figure out if it's some sort of joke, or if they're really that obtuse.
Are you kidding me? Neil Diamond wrote that song when Caroline Kennedy was eleven...
I have no words.
Yep, whole different era. How about, "Girl, you'll be a woman soon?" While we can be angry at JoePa for not following and going further, the reality is that the whole landscape around pedophiles and public awareness has changed exponentially over the past 13 years. The reason we all have such strong feelings about what we do is that this issue and protecting the children has become much more prominent in our society than it was. This isn't to say it was ever accepted, it just that now groups are more proactive to deal wtih these things.
2011 is a "whole different era" from 2002, when McQueary came to JoePa with the news that Sandusky was raping young boys? This was right around the time of the Michael Jackson saga. Don't tell me it wasn't a big issue.
This is so sad.
I have some friends who go there and pretty much the consesus is that everyone is just confused. They understand what has happened, but they don't know what to do. Penn State has literally gone from one of the most respectable colleges and football teams in the country to scum in 72 hours. From what I have heard is that people just want things to change and many are almost denying that anything happened because it is just so hard to understand. I think this is just a sad day for everyone around. College football, Penn State, the Big Ten, Joe Pa, and most importantly the kids who were unrighteously ignored and harmed.
that they are just kids. The BoT did issue a "strongly worded statement" tonight, but where are the fucking adults? Lets just hope it doesn't turn ugly there and people start getting hurt.
They're college students, what do you expect? I'm a college student and many on this board are, but let's not kid ourselves: college students can be so fucking dumb and ignorant when it comes to the mob mentality.
Most of these rallies come down to a few people starting it and then the rest telling each other "hey dude (as he smokes joint) some students are stirring shit up somewhere, we should go stir shit up too!"
Can we stop using seven nation army now? I want nothing even associated with those people.
we should stop playing football too.
And get rid of defensive coordinators.
Didn't we try that already?
not one of my favorite RR traditions
they were first to play SNA.
Was going to post this.
His second tweet says it perfectly.
damn straight Desmond. Well said, holding nothing back. making us proud again.
report. OMG! If it even half true, Sandusky should be shot, the President and all who had a hand in the coverup should go too. I bet Paterno doesn't last two more weeks.
If someone came to me with this news or I witnessed it, I'd first knock the shit out of the coach, call 911 and get the kid some help and then tell bosses about it. Paterno, Curley et all took the easy way out and tried to look the other way hoping it would all go away.
Guess what? It's going to destroy that program and the reputation of that University for years to come. Paterno will "retire" in disgrace. The "We Are...Penn State" chant will have a chilling ring to it from now on.
the only world they have ever known has been crushed and they don't want to believe it. Had the same thing happend at UM or OSU to Bo or Woody the same thing would have happened. Its a mass response to something people don't understand, they are acting out because they don't want to believe their idol could do such a thing.
when Woody left in disgrace
Say what you will about OSU, but the president and AD met that night and fired Woody the next day.
A pep rally to support the man who enabled more child abuse? Sorry, there is a clear line in the sand here. In fact it's even more important to set them straight because they're college students. McQueary's moral compass wasn't set right. Don't let it happen again.
In other news Ace Williams has started to verbally assault our Ace on twitter.
the other tweets were deleted by Ace Williams, Luckily good Ace re-tweeted them.
@chatsportsACE: I was emailed a screen shot of your thoughts on me. Comparing me to Rob Bolden and much much worse. See ya soon
then in another tweet Ace Williams asked Aceanbender to meet him for coffee on saturday to prove that he wasn't 14 years old. Ace Vs Ace
As i found hint at other tweets. But, I couldn't find any of the tweets themselves.
This really just shows how worthless Ace Williams is as a 'journalist' (used in the loosest possible meaning of the term).
At this point I'd fully support an MGoMoratorium on chatsports and Ace Williams news/articles. But thats more up to Brian/theMods/the community as a whole.
I actually kind of feel bad for the kid, he clearly has attention issues I guess he wasn't hugged enough as a child, and by child I mean 3 years ago when he was probably 8 years old.
he mentions he no longer works for them and just helps on chats or something
Ace Williams is a just an asshole
If you look through some of the other tweets in this argument, you can even see good old Bouje try to get involved. Entertaining as usual.
So you're saying MGoAce-
"In other news Ace Williams has started to verbally assault our Ace on twitter. "
I am truly perplexed by the response. "Nice people" like Joe seem sympathetic in their concern for the victims, but history is filled with stories of nice people who stood by as unspeakable acts were perpetrated on innocents.
I am a lawyer and an American who believes to the core of my being in the tenet "all accused are innocent until proven guilty". However, I believe just as fervently that the talented, the capable, and the powerful have an additional responsibility to use their influence and ability to protect the weak. Paterno, Curley, Spannier, the police, and the DA may be "innocent" in the legal sense, but they certainly failed in answering to their greater moral obligation. Paterno does not deserve a parade -- I am officially "off the fence" on this matter. I want him and the others gone. Whether there are legal sanctions and penalties is irrelevant.
The day my two year old was born was the most transformative day of my life. I have never been the same and the joy he brings me daily is immeasurable. Before this even happened, I have talked to my wife and we postulated what would we do if we found out anyone was abusing our child. It is the only time I have ever realized that I would kill someone. I would end that persons life - that is how much I love him and what that love means to me. If you are a parent on this board you realize you would rather have anything befall you then have your children harmed in anyway.
For any of you out there who believe this is ok, for any of you who feel "why are there so many threads about this", you don't understand what it means to be a parent. It is the most wonderful and helpless feeling that you have ever had. I want this man to be discussed, exposed, and crucified for what he has done. I want everyone involved in helping him perpetrate these crimes to suffer endlessly in whatever purgatory they will be assigned.
I want this to be discussed to the point that those who could remotely support Joe Paterno are drowned out by the moral indignation that is righteous. Because I don't ever want this to happen again - and the only way to assure that in the NCAA is that all the incidental involved are punished....
I agree except you lost me on the last sentence bud. Don't see how this is an NCAA matter. It could be the Jack Daniels.
Couldn't agree more with the first paragraph.
... Lost me somewhere in the second. We don't need countless threads on this. It serves no purpose.
I disagree....I think we need more threads on this and they will surely come. This story has several sides and without exception they are ugly. Sandusky is the scum of the earth and deserves a special place in hell. Almost as bad are the people who let him continue with his unfettered violations of young children, including Paterno. This is not business as usual and we all need to reflect.
After having read the grand jury's statement and having spent considerable time thinking about this whole sordid affair, I believe that Paterno and anyone else who allowed a sexual predator to continue unrestrained is scum. There is no way to explain away not going to the authorities. I'm not sure about the legal requirement; I am damned sure about the moral question.
I do feel sorry for the students at Penn State, but i say this with a proviso. Being 18 or 19 or 20 or 21 doesn't make you stupid, it makes you young. If you can't understand or don't want to understand just how sordid this whole mess is and why you don't go to some semblance of a pep rally for Paterno, then you need to do some serious self reflection. As for the so called adults in the room, the governing body of Penn State, they need to take control of the situation and do so quickly or the event on Saturday, (it makes me sick calling it a "game") will become a spectacle that will damage PSU even worse than what has already occurred.
... at the old man's house and at practice, I felt sad for him. Then I remembered how many yooung boys will be scarred for life because of his inaction*.
This entire thing sucks... all of it.
*still reserving judgment until all the details come out, but not looking good.
Has anyone heard of the Catholic Church in the past 50 years? I probably hear about a new issue every week (at least once a month) and it gets under reported. For some twisted reason, it's almost like religion gets a pass. It's always people in influential and powerful positions where trust is just assumed. Priests, coaches and sadly even foster/adoptive parents. Now that it happened in sports, it's really getting a lot of attention. I just hope that the attention towards this kind of abuse NEVER goes away (in a perfect world it wouldn't exist) because sadly these kind of people are everywhere. I had a friend who worked for the Michigan State Police in the unit that handles online crimes related to this and he mentally couldn't handle the nature and/or amount of what he saw.
And for what it's worth, I never understood why Paterno gets so much respect. He's won a lot because he's been there for half a century. He's just a egotistical man who loves himself and the postion he holds. But lately, he's been too old for anyone to ever call him out on it. I felt kind of bad for him until I saw him walk out of his house with a smile on his face. Does he even know what his decisions have done to the lives of those kids? Doesn't he feel any shame for being an enabler of a child molester?
Keep in mind, Sandusky had 6 adopted children and I believe 1 foster child. FWIW
Hence JoePa's statement about many professionals who are supposed to be exhaustive in looking for these things were fooled as well.
has really blown the lid off this. In the past the level of detail was not publically available, so or was easier for people to not believe.
As for your friend, I once sat on a jury in one of these cases. It was a sickening experience. The whole way through I was thinking about the judges, attorneys, social workers and police officers who deal with this on a daily basis. I don't know how they do it, but bless them, and your friend - there is true meaning in their jobs.
I see a lot of posts getting a pass on this "rule."
Your suggestion that the Church gets a pass is absurd. These are crimes and sins committed by people. The consequences for unrepentant sin, as the Church believes, is eternal damnation-- that's not getting a pass. It's hell.
This whole situation is just a big shit-storm with a bunch of monkeys standing nearby hurling more shit into it.
It's difficult to understand the emotion of these college students. They feel that they are being punished for the actions of Sandusky. I wonder though, how many of us would report a family member for child molestation? Is it that cut and dry that we just take them to the police? Pointing fingers is so easy.
As someone who experienced (as a victim) sexual abuse (albeit not at the level of Sandusky's victims, to the extent of my knowledge), I would not ask for prison for Sandusky. I would ideally force him to donate every penny he has to actual functioning charities, seek counseling, and do everything possible (with the help of professionals) to erase the damage that he did. Prison for him would be a death sentence. He did not kill anyone; he just damaged lives. I think he should have to live and be responsible.
The guy molested and raped innocent children and you'd rather he have counseling instead of a prison sentence? Seriously? What the hell is wrong with people?
You must have missed the part where he said he's been a victim of sexual abuse and wants these things for Sandusky.
I don't understand... why didn't any of the parents call the police? Why didn't ANYBODY call the police? It's not like this was only confined only to the athletic department... from an article that I read, some of the victims' mothers knew as well. This could have ended way before Paterno even knew about it, from what I understand.
But even still, what we know is so little of what actually may have taken place. I don't think we should jump to conclusions and what it seems like is happening at Penn State is a defensive reaction to going from respectability to trash, not necessarily a show of solidarity with Coach Paterno.
I guess what I'm saying is that simply because Paterno is a high-profile figure, he's getting the brunt of the negligence discussion... but there are maybe 20 or so other people who have been equally negligent in this case.
The first victims mom did call the police. They investigated and, even after getting Sandusky to admit showering with her son, soaping him up, and hugging him from behind, and stating he wished he was dead, the local DA declined to prosecute. Shortly thereafter, Sandusky was forced out but kept his access to the program.
I just can't believe that people keep making the EXACT same mistake over and over again... WILL SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!??????
Pedophile State U is in this position specifically because people in power valued the name of the institution over the innocence of the children getting raped. They never stopped to think, what can we do to protect the children. They never asked themselves what can I do so that this never happens again. All they valued was to make sure that their "good name" won't get dragged through the mud.
Now so called "students" are doing the same thing. They are just thinking of how they feel and focused on defending their turf, and not ONCE thinking how their action would be viewed by those who have been abused by that monster.
If you were one of those kids who were raped by that monster, how would you feel that a thousand students were outside of a man's house who did nothing to stop that monster chanting how great he is. How would you feel? Does any of these idiots think cheering this sham of a man is more important than adding more to the anguish of those who were raped?
I feel like puking. This is beyond disgusting.
when this whole thing broke, I thought, "JoePa is respectable, there's got to be some way he's innocent in all this." While I still believe he's respectable to some degree, the more of the story that comes out, the more I think he should have done more. It just dawned on me as I was reading everyone's comments, everyone in the Air Force goes through training on how to handle this kind of thing. It's called bystander intervention training. If you're a direct witness to an incident, you bring attention to it and alert law enforcement immediately. If someone tells you about an incident, you alert law enforcement and have an obligation to not sweep it under the rug. The whole "he said, she said" doesn't work here. It's tragic when an adult gets sexually assualted, it's doubly tragic when a child's innocence is stolen by sexual assault. I'm just flabbergasted, the more I think about it, that someone could know of even the possibility that this happened and do nothing more than tell the boss. JoePa, you'll never read this, but you would be retiring this year, potentially, with more respect than you had before the scandal, had you done the right thing when told of these allegations. You'll go down as one of the greatest coaches of all time, but instead will have no respect aside from that. This is what happens when one man, or institution is lauded above one person's, or in this case 8 or 9 children's, well beings. Just simply sad.
Alleged number is now at least 20...
It looks like a scene of mass denial at PSU, if this is all indeed to support Paterno. In my opinion, if you're PSU, you maybe let him leave quietly and seek legal counsel on his own (bet they don't go that route), but that scene in front of his house and him buying into people cheering him on....it put me right off him and his fans.
Would be roughly the same age as the 10 year old who got butt-raped back in 2002. How stupid and delusional are they in Happy Valley? I hope this would not be the reaction in AA under similar circumstances. That creepy smile was very revealing. He literally gets off on it, which could explain why he was able to justify enabling a child molester for over a decade.
Maybe one day soon the students cheering JoePa will realize they are cheering a man who is a central figure in bringing shame and embarrassment on their institution. I'll regain some respect for Penn State when the students mount a similarly large mob to demand the president's immediate ouster.
If his lawyers would allow him to speak to these students, and tell them he screwed up. He did what he was required to do, but knowing what he knows now, it was clearly not enough. So if anyone ever finds themself in a similar position they should report to the police or child protective services and follow up.
So far Paterno's statement is the only one I have seen reaching out to the victims and their families.
It seems to me that, if PSU really cared about salvaging something of Paterno's image, they would not have cancelled the presser yesterday, and they would have let him say something and answer questions (at least those that the lawyers would allow answered, which may not have been very many). I would think that this overture would have gone some ways toward showing that he is wholly remorseful more than a simple statement. Maybe that's just me though.
all these students at JoePa's house would be screaming for his head on a platter, and would be blaming Paterno directly for the Sandusky horrors.
Since PSU is in contention for the championship game, instead they're supporting him and basically giving Paterno a pass on the scandal.
The students would indignantly deny it, but they're no different from OSU or Auburn or USC fans. It's all about winning or losing. If their team is winning, they'll turn a blind eye to virtually everything. If their team is losing, they want their coach fired even if he makes Mother Theresa look like John Wayne Gacy.
Jesus Christ. I get that they must feel helpless if they love JoePa, are don't want to see him dragged through the mud. I am sure that totally sucks. And it must be horrible to see the school you love be in the press for horrible, horrible reasons. But this just looks crappy, and IMO they are making it worse, not better.
If you must gather, gather in a way that tells the world "This is not what Penn State is about." Do it in support of the victims, or something. Light some candles. Don't roam the campus singing fight songs, for god's sakes.
I want to preface this by saying that in light of the details that have come out and the fact that JoePa allowed Sandusky to still remain affiliated with the program after knowledge incidents I believe he has to be fired. However, I do want to say also that I think people who are trying to say JoePa is automatically an awful man for this are not putting themselves in his shoes really.
We all would like to think that if we were in that situation, our immediate reaction would be to do the right thing and report to the police. But put yourself in Joe Pa's shoes for a moment. Imagine if someone came to you accusing your brother, or son, someone you have been close to for over twenty years, of sexually abusing a child. Would you automatically assume it is true and report to the police? I think if you consider how long JoePa knew Sandusky beforehand, it must have complicated things for him. Again, I am not making an excuse and the fact that JoePa did not ask more probing questions, AND allowed the man to keep access to Penn State football is terrible. But I imagine there must have been some fear and denial going on in JoePa's head which are very human emotions when you have a long-term relationship or attachment to someone. JoePa had several children himself. I am sure that in no way shape or form he condones sexual abuse, which makes his actions that much harder to understand. But, again, I believe for JoePa it must have been extremely difficult to think that Sandusky could actually be doing these awful things, based on the fact that Sandusky was his player and very close to him for many years.
The details that have come out, and JoePa's reaction of saying he "did what he was supposed to do," are disturbing and cause for his dismissal. But I am not ready to say he is automatically the worst person in the world because of it. He should have done more, no question. He should have banned Sandusky, no doubt. He should have though of the kids and reported it to the police. But when you have known somebody for a long time and have accusations come out that rock the foundation of who you believed them to be, it must be alot tougher to come to terms with the reality of the situation.
Yeah, but 2002 wasn't the first time. Sandusky was investigated in 1998 as well, and "retired" soon after. Maybe once, but when there are multiple reports you no longer have any excuse.
While I don't agree with your comments regardless, you seem to be making the same mistake many are. In fact Brian may be the only person I've seen say it plainly. This was a 2nd offense, when joepa gets this report in 2002 he had to have known about the psu investigation in 98, as Brian said it was that investigation that had to be connected to sandusky's sudden retirement. So now the situation looks like this.....you get an eyewitness report from your former qb and current grad assistant, a kid you've known for years, telling you that a man you know to have previously been the subject of an investigation regarding sexual activities with kids, was having anal sex with a 10 year old boy IN YOUR FOOTBALL BUILDING, and you......tell the AD.....and wash your hands of it.....are you kidding me?
A rational person does not ASSUME guilt before a case has gone before a jury. A rational person wonders why the police did not thoroughly investigate the allegation that he admitted to the crimes in 98'? Is it not odd that Sandusky allegedly admitted guilt to a parent, but nothing was done about it? Why didn't the district attorney file charges? If he had, the subsequent alleged rapes would not have happened.
So many people failed here besides Joe Paterno. Sandusky failed as a human being as did McQueary. The law failed to do its job. It was a systematic failure at all levels of authority.
Does anyone else find it just a little too convenient that this whole story, which people with knowledge must have known would end JoePa's career before the season ends (it will), happened to break a week after he breaks the record for career wins?
I would be most surprised if the timing had anything to do with Paterno's record, although maybe I am being naive. If that were the case, why would you not wait until the end of the season? I suspect the timing has everything to do with the prosecution of the case.
supreme coincidence but they're not going to hold off on arresting a pervert because of football. this all launched into action based upon an arrest.
Brandan Westfall a sophomore, said he heard of the rally on Facebook.
“I’m here to support Joe Paterno, and the media is blowing this [the Sandusky sex abuse scandal] way out of proportion,” he said.
Thats sad, kids dont even understand the massivness of this case. This is something people go maximum security prisons for life for, and someone closely affiiliated with this kid's school did it, and his beloved coach didnt do anything about it.
a wise teacher once told our class this "a person is smart, people are dumb."
Michigan can't control what PSU does...but Michigan should lobby to have PSU out of the B1G if action isn't taken soon to clean house.
“I’m here to support Joe Paterno, and the media is blowing this [the Sandusky sex abuse scandal] way out of proportion,” he said.
Something like 20 kids got raped by a Penn State assistant coach. How is it even POSSIBLE to blow it out of proportion?
I get that students want to support JoePa, but it looks really bad for them and the university to do so. When a large part of the AD is accused of harboring a child rapist, you don't go running through the streets proclaiming that you support one of the harborers unless you are a total fool
Seem like a march/vigil/ in support of the alleged victims would be the choice of people with their priorities straight.
And JoePa could have joined that march/vigil.
Has anyone been convicted yet? Is there any physical evidence? Did anyone see these acts besides McQueary? If not, then the case boils down to Sandusky's word versus the children. That means this is a far from certain case.
McQueary has creditability issues. Why would he NOT stop the rape if he had indeed had seen it? Why would he tell his dad instead of calling campus police the moment he saw what was going on? These are two troubling questions that need to be answered.
By the way, people who think Paterno is equally as guilty as McQueary are wrong.If this story is is true than McQueary is almost as guilty as Sandusky. He had the opportunity and means to stop the alleged rape. He had the means to call the cops right then and there. He did not. Paterno meanwhile was told by McQueary(second hand information) and reported it to his higher ups. One can certainly damn him for not going to the police, but I can understand why he did not. He worked with Sandusky for 30 years. I can see why he was incredulous at hearing this information. Just think about. If it was your buddy,someone you had known for decades,would you have believed it?
This is not to defend Paterno's actions, but to possibly explain it. Since I am not in his head I nor anyone else will ever know for certain why he refrained from going to the police.Eitherway, this situation is a sordid affair that has and will destroy lives.
Did you read the GJ indictment? If you did, you know that there were more witnesses to these acts that just McQueary, and you also know that Sandusky admitted acts back in 1998, adding, "I wish I were dead." Not sure why I need to wait until the judicial process runs its course to have an opinion, but thanks for the suggestion.
Why are we just hearing about this stuff 12-13 years on?And why was nothing done back in 98' when he admitted to the crimes? The grand jury report raises many questions about not just Penn State, but the police. Why wasn't this guy arrested in 98'?
We also still do not have physical evidence and witnesses are often unreliable. A good defense attorney can take this circumstancial case and weaken it enough before a jury where Sandusky's guilt will very much be reasonably doubted.
If Casey Anthony and Emmett Till's killers can be found innocent then so can Jerry Sandusky. A case built upon circumstancial evidence is never a sure thing.
They weren't found "innocent" and that is not merely semantics.
If someone is not guilty what are but innocent before the eyes of the law? If someone is not guilty of a crime then they are innocent of it. Our justice system gives us only two options to describe a persons culpability in a crime.Guilty or not guilty. Most assume the latter to mean innocent. What is you interpretation?
Are you serious? It means that the case was not proven beyond a reasonable doubt (in criminal trials).
It absolutely does not mean innocent. The system is built to err on the side of aquitting the guilty rather than convicting the innocent.
Failure to convict means the burden of proof (which is very high) was not met. It does not mean the person is innocent.
Was OJ innocent after aquittal?
If he is not guilty then it stands to reason that he is innocent of the crime before the eyes of the law, not that he is innocent in fact.
You missed my phrase "Before the eyes of the law". I did not say what people BELIEVE. That is all that it is since no one was at these alleged events and we cannot say with 100 percent certainty that they occurred.Niether me or you were there when OJ allegedly slaughtered Nicole and Ron so we cannot say for certain that is what happened.
Do I believe that they did? Do I believe Sanduskty molested those kids? Yeah, but it is a belief on what has been presented to me. The history of the humanity suggests that one should always maintain a level of scepticism no matter how sound the evidence is. Artful manipulation of facts is something every lawyer is taught and we ought to remember that.
"If Casey Anthony and Emmett Till's killers can be found innocent then so can Jerry Sandusky."
You didn't say "in the eyes of the law".
Of 9 year old rapes?
CSI has hurt people's ability to think.
It is not like anyone has ever lied to get someone arrested or convicted.
the guy had everything to lose. And he's not the only one. you need to read the gj report before you talk any more.
circumstancial, there is at least one eye witness, and notwithstanding your bizarre questioning of his credibility, he appears to be rock solid........nothing to gain, check, everything to lose, check, told multiple other people immediately after it happened, check, oh not to mention the mothers, victims, janitors, etc that will testify.
One always should look critically at issues of legality. Raising questions is not bizarre. I find it odd that you--a supposedly college educated person--would think questioning is bizarre.
The fact is that the witness in question saw the alleged act and did nothing to stop it nor report it to the proper authorities. That is something that will surely come up in the trial. It is something a lawyer will use to attack his credibility.
How do you know he is "rock solid"? Do you know McQueary personally? Do you know his history? If not, how can you claim that he is "rock solid"?
In fact, you acknowledge that you do not know enough about McQueary when you use the qualifier "appears".
I believe Sandusky to be guilty, the mountain of evidence from eyewitnesses and Sandusy's words tell me that he is. But that does not mean that this case is without holes. It is.
that this was a shameful post but really its just an uneducated one. Read the grand jury report. Educate yourself before you speak on such a topic. And even without reading the report, to say McQuery has credibility issues is bizarre, that incident was the last thing he ever wanted to see or have to tell anyone about, I'm sure he feared for his job (not that that excuses his failure to tell police), why in the world would McQuery make this up?
I'll simply say that you exhibit a woeful lack of critical thinking ability.
I agree that it highly unlikely that he would make it up, but the possibility does exist.Why would he? I don't know, but we know nothing about Mike McQueary as a person.
The grand jury report is based on the evidence presented by law enforcement. It is not a trial. To treat it as the final word on the subject is bit absurd. The facts have not been scrutinized.
to condemn a man who has been indicted for sexually abusing 8 kids pursuant to testimony of several victims, at least one 3rd party eye witness, mothers, janitors who confirmed the immediate comments of another eyewitness, etc. I feel terrible.
Yes is it POSSIBLE he didn't do anything wrong, sure, anything is possible. Does it seem reasonable at this point, clearly not.
Good article from Wojo regarding re: Penn State scandel
Scandel time-line link from Sporting News:
Extract: "Early 2009—An investigation by the Pennsylvania attorney general begins when a Clinton County, Pa. teen boy tells authorities that Sandusky has inappropriately touched him several times over a four-year period."
I would also like to see an investigation time-line. Not likely. Did it really have to take almost 3 years to bring charges? Wierd how it marries up with 409. Does moving paper and doing interviews really take that long?
I thought with age would come wisdom and with the abuse in 1998 and 2002 could someone in leadership not see the bigger picture. Especially with the relationship of the accued to the Second Mile Program which should give anyone the creeps. Why would you not think this is not a huge, huge problem that would only get worse.
I'm sure some of the students point of view is conflicted by their age to some degree and their life experience. For example, they are not parents, or they were never abused. They have the same tunnel vision that PSU leadership had. At at some point later on in their life they will look back at this sad event with a whole different perspective.
so these kids are shortsighted and inexperienced for rallying to support their classmates? I love this website but the high horses some of you people ride on are ridiculous.
the "support paterno" stuff is cringe inducing. I retract and apologize.