I hope there are tapes. If this one is true, Cam's dad is a real dick. Oh right, he's a pastor. LOL. We have seen enough of those false characters the last few years.
OT: THE CAM NEWTON THREAD
Lets keep the football blog about football. You can read between the lines in your comment and start a flame war. No thank you.
Watch out guys, internet police . . .
So if he'd said "that guy is a liar he must be a (insert political affiliation)" would you have responded the same way? Politics-bashing (and politics in general) have been banned from this board for very good reason, so is it unreasonable for people to show the same respect towards others' faith?
doing fine all by himself in the disrespecting faith dept. Nice values he taught his kid.
I agree with david, but I do think it's worth noting the apparent similarities between Newton's dad and the reverend who "helped" marcus dupree, as detailed on last night's ESPN 30 for 30.
all people, and people who write into blogs, all are susceptible to being dicks,
In response to htownwolverine's
I hope there are tapes. If this one is true, Cam's dad is a real dick. Oh right, he's a pastor. LOL. We have seen enough of those false characters the last few years.
As a pastor I find this offensive.
As a paster you should find Mr Newtons actions even more offensive than the rest of us.
You can imagine how difficult it is to read articles like this.
If 'pasters' are upset about this, I can only imagine the outrage among 'pastors.'
As someone who was once planning to become a pastor (and maybe might still, who knows.), I can't say I blame him for this remark.
You can't deny there's a ton of hypocrisy among the clergy and Christians in general.
And not just high profile cases like Ted Haggard or Eddie Long or Jimmy Swaggart, either. A lot of times it seems like hypocrisy is the norm, not the exception.
I agree with the fact that there is a ton of hypocrisy among us.
I've worked hard and done the best I can to live a life of integrity (FAR from perfect - just ask my wife) and it stings when another pastor makes poor choices. It also hurts when we all get lumped together and "guilt by association" takes place when used in sweeping general comments.
By no means do I think htownwolverine was actually attacking me but it's tough to read the pastor comment and not feel like he could have chosen a different way to say it.
Religious hyprocrisy is especially striking and poignant.
Hypocrisy isn't new and not relegated to religious folks. You can't deny there's a ton of hypocrisy among humans. FIFY.
I suspect for the examples you give, we could find 'a lot of times' other folks living out what they believe.
You, sir, have my single favorite screen name on this blog. That is in my top 5 favorite movies of all time.
"Don't tell me it's a fine morning or I'll shoot ya"
(It's on one of my coffee cups along with the Duke)
htownwolverine probably thinks pastors should have their own schools....oh, wait
As a pastor I find this offensive
As a Christian I find it very offensive that so many Men of God with their pastoral titles and bibles are really crooks or sex abusers.
Assuming Cam's dad took the bribe, he will be another large disappointment to me.
As I get older, I am starting to assume that the men who lift the cross up the highest and proclaim it the loudest are usually the crooks. I assume that is what the poster two posts up was saying.
As a Catholic living in the South I have had my share of ribbing by Protestants. I probably should have not been as snarky but my original post was late last night so my snark synapse does not work quite as well.
I have had some experience with 'Pastors' that run storefront churches (Cecil has 5 of them) and needless to say some of them are not legitimate but only fronts for tax fraud and evasion. A man can collect a lot of donations and spread expenses when he controls so many non-profits. And Cecil's latest alleged activities do paint him with a stained brush.
However, poor taste on my part and my apologies to any one offended.
"After Newton committed to Auburn, another source said an emotional Cam Newton phoned another recruiter to express regret that he wouldn't be going to Mississippi State, stating that his father Cecil had chosen Auburn for him because 'the money was too much.'"
for reppin that A
Even if that was true and Auburn paid Cam, why would he tell people at Mississippi State? Would he really expect them to stay quiet? The only way I could see him saying something is if Miss St was offering to pay him too.
Which is why people aren't being quiet.
I'm beginning to think these accusations and character assasinations by multiple sources are no longer just people trying to smear the name of a good kid. Where there's smoke, there's fire.
why would he tell people at Mississippi State?
This one seems easy enough: 1) he's just a kid and 2) with apparently questionable integrity (if the reports of academic cheating at UF are true). As a kid, he may have genuinely felt bad about stringing Miss. St. along and then having his pops pull the rug out from under him. I don't like letting people down, and maybe he doesn't either. And some people, myself included, are exceptionally bad about letting people down without spilling the entire truth. Sometimes, it's best just to deliver the bad news and then shut up. This sometimes takes maturity, and again, he's just a kid.
he's just a kid, and felt close/comfortable with the person who had been recruiting him the entire time. probably felt bad about not going to MSU, and wanted to be honest with the person that he thought he could trust.
i work with teenagers daily, they can't keep their mouth shut for shit.
That second one is my favorite. The look on Cecil's face with Cam on his lap is hilarious.
LSUfreek is a genius. I can't stop laughing.
Old Cecil effed up when he started crossing state lines with this nonsense. Once the interstate commerce clause is invoked, the Feds will always take a look at it which is why I definitely believe that the FBI is at a minimum taking a cursory glance. There appears to be phone communications and I would believe wire or mail transfers as well. Auburn should be praying this does not spin the direction of an extortion charge since I am sure Cecil would roll pretty quickly on the details regarding how his son ended up at Auburn because the payoff to the family is not some small payment for college play, but Cam's NFL contract and there would be no need to put that in jeopardy. The most damning thing for the SEC is that this seems completely plausible within that conference, almost not even surprising.
Right after Auburn doubled down, wow. We haven't heard the last of this story.
Not even close. Reports say the FBI is involved.
The Heisman might as well be gift wrapped for LaMichael James... there's no way the committee will take a chance giving it to Newton.
...but while you may be overstating a bit, the FBI is getting involved.
I can't remember a CFB player having a reputation die a death by a thousand cuts like this before.
Sadly, Clarett's troubles really only came to light after the MNC.
It reminds me a little of the Mark McGwire/Sammy Sosa stuff in 1998, where everyone knew they were juicing and there was some evidence but not enough to tank them completely. But if Newton gets nailed before the season's over, I've gotta think it'd be pretty unprecedented.
had his warts exposed quickly and in catastrophic fashion. His reputation didn't sloooowly wither away like this; baseball juicers seem like a more analogous example though (albeit the'yre not CFB players, obvs)
Is one week of rapid-fire accusations slow withering compared to Clarett's suspension, then failed lawsuit, then year off, then stint with Broncos, then out of football, then decline to prison?
And at the time they were juicing, it wasn't against the rules of baseball. The really sad part about that whole thing is that you can't look at any player now and not wonder if its steroids.
An interesting Heisman conundrum for the holier-than-thou sports press: do you give it to a guy who (allegedly) took a boatload of cash, or do you give it to the guy who was suspended a game for "grabbing his girlfriend by the collar" and dragged her away from your apartment because you had other girls inside?
The nice guy with a gleaming smile that kneels down when he scores touchdowns? I' m just sayin'.
And the rules for heisman state that character are a consideration......
Mr Robinson for heisman.
You don't have to sell me on it . I'm just noting the national pundits seem to push one or the other.
It's the feds!
GOODBYE HEISMAN!!!! I mean after all the Reggie Bush stuff which took 5 years to come out...you really think people are going to be voting for him now? Good thing this is coming out now rather than in the future...there could possible be 2 voids in the Hesiman family.
I had previously thought that Auburn had nothing to lose by playing Newton because most of its season would already be vacated if he was ineligible. In other words, it already is all or nothing for Auburn. The one wrinkle is whether the NCAA would come down harder on Auburn if it had reason to suspect that these allegations were true, yet it continued to play Newton until the hammer actually came down.
Given what came out tonight, if you're Auburn, you couldn't really sit a guy because "we might have paid him a lot of money to come here."
This is going to be interesting. It feels like the beginning of the end for Auburn football. (Oh, and just because I'm kind of a dick... S! E! C!)
this is Auburn. Their record says where there is smoke there is fire. This will not turn out well for them. If so if the NCAA should come dome hard.
I just don't understand where people get the stones to think they can get away with this! It is unfathomable. I mean, all he has to do is wait a couple years and he'll have a chance at way more than he could get from extorting a college. It's sad really.
It's called greed. This is what the world of sports has become. All the attention student athletes are getting now a days by the media, fans, agents, etc has created a pay me now attitude.
His father's church would've been gone by then. I have to say I sympathize with the guy. He has a talent worth a shit ton of money and he's barred from working for the only employer who's in the business of compensating for it. Further, the only path he has to eventually being compensated requires using his talent to generate an obscene amount of money in exchange for a relative pittance while he has to watch his family struggle just to get by. No, I don't blame Cam Newton at all.
The only way this is unfair to me is that it rewards Auburn for breaking the rules everybody plays by.
Not to mention the fact that, before he can get paid for his talents at all, he's expected to generate gobs of cash for other people while running the substantial risk of an injury that could limit or end his future prospects.
in the pros. It occurs to me that what we ought to do is make a change to the pro side of it, not the college game. These kids are going to BIG name schools, out of state usually, for four years, for free. That's not zero pay. That's easily 50-60K a year, including food and so on.
Instead, allow these kids to market their image, do commercials, licence their name (not the school's gear) etc. Then their talents are earning them a paycheck, without putting schools over a barrel.
That is the best way to deal with this. Saves the university from having to pay them and gives these kids a chance to make some coin while in school. As you said, it would need to be done without mentioning the University or its gear, but everyone in the local area (and beyond in some cases) would know who it was.
this then lowers the school's branding ability to utilize its players to achieve profit while at the same time providing an impossible grey zone of whether Joe Smith went to Alabama because Alabama was great or because a supporter of the school who owns a car dealership promised him 18k a year for 'advertisements'
The player cannot do endorsements and whatnot, but he/she should still own the rights to their likeness. If Auburn wants to sell Newton jerseys, video games, or other marketing with his likeness, he gets paid for it.
would never fly because smaller schools would argue they would have zero ability to recruit anyone worth a damn due to the fact bigger schools with larger student/alumni bases would be able to offer more money (larger sales). further, it would create an ever increasing Hollywood competition between players, further increasing the importance of one over the team.
not to mention how would you know which #5 the jersey was bought for on teams with players on both sides, etc.?
athletes need to start considering it an unpaid internship with free room and board that they can discontinue after one year of training. people are lamenting 'think of the children' without realizing that it is beyond absurd pity is being cast on the athlete unable to go from high school (at 17-18) to immediate celebrity status making a bajillion dollars. hell, i wouldn't doubt the NFL coaches are secret fans of this rule due to the fact taking some 18 yr old punk who's never answered to anyone and having to COACH them would be an astounding undertaking.
tom izzo is amazing proof of the value of making a guy answer to an authority. he's had significant success with having high caliber players not flush out due to their ego
This would 100% eliminate Cam Newton from the Heisman race and any other post season individual award. The worst thing of all, is this could put the end to a wonderful season for the Auburn Tigers, eliminating and chance of playing for the BCS National Championship.
These are just rumors, so far. Within the next couple of days we shall all know much, much more. In the mean time Boise State and TCU will be paying close attention to what is happening down with Newton and the Auburn Tigers.
This actually raises an interesting question.
Yes, there has been a landslide of allegations against Newton and Auburn in the past week or so. But an official investigation is going to take time. Barring an admission of guilt by someone(s), it will probably drag on longer than the remainder of the season.
Assuming this isn't resolved by the end of the season, what are the chances that Auburn is somehow removed from the championship (assuming they win out)? Will it be the human voters sinking Auburn? Will the NCAA preemptively step in?
Personally, I could see a situation where Auburn goes to the title game, even though everyone anticipates their season will be forfeited, but they end up there simply because they don't have cause to keep them out of it.
All that being said, this is all a hypothetical assuming there is substance to the allegations (which is quickly looking more and more likely).
I bet Georgia and Bama will have some big fans in Indianapolis in the coming weekends!
to expedite matters when players eligibility comes into question.
See North Carolina this year, Georgia and Green this year, and Okl State last year with Bryant.
To see Auburn win a national championship that is later vacated by a pay to play scenario after losing out on a national championship they should've been awarded durin the whole Reggie Bush/USC fiasco. (there should probably be another period in there somewhere, oh well.)
The former is far more satisfying than the latter.
Maybe this is pessimistic, but what seems more likely: 1. several media agencies get together and decide to do a real hit job on this kid; or 2. a big time school pays a guaranteed-to-be-a-star player to come to their school? I'm leaning #2 at this point. My only hesitation is the Freep jihad here at Michigan. The sheer number of sources on this story, however, makes me think it has to have legs...
National media is looking into this situation, not local reporters with an ax to grind. It seems from reports that the NCAA has been 'investigating' these allegations since January, and with the reports of cheating from Florida, the stolen laptop, other schools suggesting he/ family was soliciting funds, there seems to be merit in this story.
And taking of what could be $200,000 is much different than extra stretching.
Is it premature for me to be thinking "Hello Kris Frost?"
Well, my question in all of this is how do you get paid? Are you dumb enough to have bank records and abnormal spending habits from a booster? or does the booster pay an "uncle"? or do they set up off shore accounts?
it just seems that if someone thinks you got paid, it'd be easy to find out because of the paper trail.
That is why you don't leave a paper trail. Make sure you get cash from the boaster. Do not take the cash to a bank, but instead leave it in a coffee can and take a little out each day or maybe leave it all in there for a few years. Don't buy a new car. Don't buy a house. Don't tell people. This stuff isn't hard...unless you happen to be stupid.
Or, alternatively, you could launder the cash through a 501(c)(3), like, for example a church.
I'm not saying it happened I'm just saying it's a possibility. And it happens more than many people think.
A 501(c)(3) has to account for every dollar accepted as a donation. Where it came from, who it came from and what not. If the story about Cam's father basically taking a church from bankruptcy and rebuilding the actual church is true, there will be clues in the paperwork. There will be inconsistencies in the amount of donations, hell there may even be a tax receipt for a big donor. I can't imagine a booster chucking 200k at a 501(c)(3) and not getting a receipt for it. However, I would imagine that has been covered up, and more likely the FBI will be able to audit the tax records and find wild inconsistencies.
Mr. Newton runs 5 of these churches. If these allegations are true he seems like the type of character that would filter the donations through the 5 entities and then use some invoicing tricks or entity to entity donations to get the work done on the church that was in need of repairs.
A 501(c)(3) non-profit organization does have to account for every dollar. A church enjoys a special exclusion in the tax code that does not require them to file a tax return. They are required to provide receipts to donors, but there is no reporting to the government on the church's part. The donor needs to provide the receipt to substantiate the deduction. I doubt if a booster gave money to the "church" they would deduct the "donation" since saving taxes was not the motivation for the "donation".
Do you always use your envelope? I don't. I throw cash in the basket. I'm sure it wouldn't take forever to hide $200k between 5 churches.
an increase of tithes within a 4 month period of 40k/church ...?
Well, I guess this is my point. Isn't it close to impossible to not leave a paper trail.
Bottom line is that you are getting paid to play college football and there will always be abnormalities in the people receiving the improper benefits lifestyle, bank account, expenditures, etc.
If you receive $200,000 something always changes. Whether its your business receiving upgrades (Newtons Church for example), a new car, you're spending habits change (i.e. spending more or saving more because of the extra cash flow), or someone who is close to you having these changes (family member, family friends keeping or spending the money for you).
I highly doubt people have the willpower to keep a large chunk of money hidden in their basement for years without spending it or giving hints of suspicion.
I hope the FBI investigates this and dishes out some prison sentences. If that precedent is set there will be a much smaller number of these little cam newton bastards every year. If you're THAT good you can wait 3 to 5 years to get drafted before you bank on the talents you were given by God(!).
YEAH! SCREW CAPITALISM!
Isn't prison sentences...I don't...kinda harsh?
Naw, NCAA prison has the comfiest beds
NCAA '12, now with a new "Prisons" mode......
I think the only program in that level right now would be Sparty, with occacsional cameo's from individuals (Newton, Austin, perhaps Blount if going back a year)
That is just classic MSU.
[insert MSU joke here]
[insert MSU joke here]
I unlocked 'The Longest Yard' achievement in NCAA '12!
Don't be an asshole.
Yeah, how dare this guy whose talents are worth millions of dollars now (and could vanish in an instant) try to get compensated beyond the relative pittance he's getting?
Oh please. While I don't agree with TJ at all, you're wrong on the opposite extreme.
This notion that these poor student athletes are just victims in all this is absurd.
Do they work hard? Yes.
They're also getting a free education (Graduating college debt free is huge), fame, renown, status, etc. out of the deal. His living expenses while in college are provided for. He has a place to stay, gets to eat like a king at training table, and probably gets laid left and right.
Yeah, I feel really bad for poor, poor Cam Newton.
Not to mention the training and physical development the athletes get that prepares them for competition at the NFL level, again, for free.
The talents-vanish-in-an-instant argument I don't like either. At some level this is an information asymmetry problem - players whose value to a franchise is highly dependent on them being healthy and who are likely to get injured have an incentive to get out of college ball as early as possible and sign contracts. Their own, presumably better, knowledge of their health gives them an advantage over the teams they are negotiating with. Requiring people to play college ball before going on the payroll gives the teams a much bigger data pool to consider, and improves the efficiency of the market by helping to keep out people who are prone to injury.
HA! Pleeeease, let's talk about inefficiencies. How about the black market for talent that's developed, the one Newton's cashed in on?
"Graduating" "college" "free education"
We know about graduation rates.
We know that, on average, college football players spend 40+ hours/week on football related activities.
We know they are often warehoused in easy programs that don't teach them much. And that often, the same happened in high school and the kids come into a university (at relaxed admissions standards) fundamentally unprepared. I mean, we just had a story two days ago in which a University of Florida graduate (or at least multiple-year attendee) said that he "didn't know who the fuck Anne Frank" is. The same guy, a few years ago, played a game in London and was surprised to learn that people there spoke English. Thankfully, for Channing Crowder's sake, his skills as a linebacker got him further than his top AAU-level university or his high school education could have.
Not all student athletes, specifically Cam Newton. He's recouping his scholarship money thousands of times over for Auburn and yet you think it's fair that he should have to struggle to watch his family struggle to make ends meet? It is totally unfair.
Is it fair?
No. But life's not fair. And he has it better than many, many people out there.
When things happen like Katrina to New Orleans, earthquakes to Haiti, and tsunamis to Southeast Asia, I find it hard to feel sorry for a kid that gets treated like a rockstar (and laid like one too), eats like a king, and is getting a free education which will set him up for life (whether he makes the NFL or not. I guarantee you Cam Newton will never struggle to find work. Well, maybe he will now.).... all for throwing a ball around.
Beyond that is still a massive surplus of profit that he can't touch while he lets his family struggle. It would kill me to know that.
Yeah I agree but that describes a lot of people in rank-and-file blue collar jobs as well, who slave away for minimum wage for a (multi-)national corporation that is wildly profitable.
At least Newton has things like what I mentioned above, plus free health care, and a bright future where he will be ridiculously wealthy ahead of him.
Is Cam Newton's life perfect? No. But no one's is and he has a much, much better situation than most. So I find it really difficult to feel sorry for him.
Blue collar workers work in a free market and Cam Newton doesn't. The federally sanctioned monopoly in his field bars him from employment.
I'm talking about the market for his talent which is a monopoly which bars him from employment. The market for football talent is not a free market at all.
No. The CFL isn't even in this country and the NFL has no competitor, this fact was recognized by the federal gov't when it granted the NFL an exception to anti trust law.
Legally speaking, there's a huge difference between excluding people based on relevant professional standards and excluding a class of potential employees strictly by age. More practically, Newton is already generating millions of dollars in cash. This has nothing to do with whether or not he's qualified to get people to pay a huge amount of money to see him pay football. That question has already been answered.
Auburn is making more money off merchandise, an improved bowl and marginally from TV ratings. The SEC is riding Newton (and other amateur athletes) to massive paydays from ESPN, who in turn is charging (higher) fees for advertisers, who themselves must be getting something out of it to keep paying.
If Newton's benefits came anywhere near what he was worth he wouldn't be able to cash in with this black market money.
James Meredith and many other African Americans—many of whom came from backgrounds no more wealthy than Cam Newton's—valued education so highly that they literally put their lives on the line in order to legally gain access to southern institutions of higher education.
Fast forward fifty years, and some African American "students" are so contemptuous of the potential value of a free education that they are willing to jeopardize it for short term payments.
Martin Luther King and all the other heroes of the Civil Rights movement are scratching their heads trying to figure out what in hell went wrong.
This is now about the "heroes of the Civil Rights movement" being disappointed in black people? James Meredith wanted to go to college because he wanted an education. Cam Newton had to go to college in order to make a living playing football. If he valued education too highly (one way: to not play football in college) he'd be making a bad investment in his own future.
"If he valued education too highly he'd be making a bad investment in his own future."
This illustrates exactly the point in my original comment: the fact that there are people all over our country, of every race and ethnicity, who honestly believe that valuing education is a "bad investment" in one's own future is a sad commentary on how self-destructive our national culture has become.
If nothing else, simply the statistical reality of the tiny chances of making it in the NFL, and the short length of NFL careers, would indicate that in fact getting an education is the most prudent thing possible to do for one's future.
There is nothing that prevents Cam Newton from attending Auburn as an honest student, playing football for three or four years, and then going pro, without taking money to do so. Are his family members literally going to perish if he didn't take any money?
Having said that, I think that there should be an avenue for those who truly aren't interested in getting an education to pursue their talents in a sport. I wish there was some way to force the NFL to help fund the formation of a minor league so guys like Newton could play ball and financially help their families. I would bet that 95% of all the recruiting violations and academic fraud violations that are committed by schools involve kids who are neither qualified or interested in getting a college education; if those kids could play a minor league sport in the same way that hockey and baseball players could do, a good deal of the crap would disappear.
the fact that there are people all over our country, of every race and ethnicity, who honestly believe that valuing education is a "bad investment" in one's own future is a sad commentary on how self-destructive our national culture has become.
Greed, including in college athletics has no race barrier. Athletes of all races playing major college football are benefactors of "gifts". Remember the former Oklahoma QB, Rhett Bomar? Not an African American. It goes on and on.
People of all races and backgrounds fought for various freedoms and would be disappointed in our current day, dumbed down values.
MLK was about Civil Rights for all people. That's why you see him speaking out against the war in Vietnam and other social, non-racial, issues later in his life. So he would be appalled by this, not because of any particular race, but because of the meat market mentality going on in college athletics today.
I think race matters. Not for the precisely the reasons that Don brings it up, but it would be willfully ignorant to deny that racial perceptions and realities play no role in the way this conversation happens. It wouldn't be doing right by the conversation at hand to deny that there are racial issues involved in this discussion. Though, if they are to be discussed, they have to be discussed very, very delicately so as to avoid flame wars and violating the rules of this forum. So far, I think it's been done well.
(Also, on another note, to say that the Vietnam War or MLK's anti-poverty campaign were "non-racial" requires vast historical blind spots)
Are you saying race played a role what happened? Or are you saying that people are trying to interject race into this discussion? I'm confused, but trying to understand.
No one talks about race when it's Rhett Bomar or the whole SMU scandal. So I don't understand why race has to be used here.
And with the MLK thing, all I'm trying to point out is that he was interested in civil rights for everyone, and not just one set of people. So he wouldn't be thrilled about a whole lot of stuff going on these days.
Race is a part of the big picture. It's part of why Auburn, a school in Alabama, a state that 1/4 black, has a black student enrollment of less than 10%. It's part of why, of that 10%, over 10% of those are athletes. It's part of why people evoke Dr. King in a discussion of NCAA infractions. It's part of why some people are really upset about athlete graduation rates. It's part of why some people are angry that proceeds from revenue generating sports go toward scholarships, facilities, and coaching for non-revenue generating sports. It's part of the images we imagine when we hear that Cecil Newton is a pastor. It's part of why nobody really talks about Rhett Bomar. It's part of why some people were resent the NBA age limit and applaud guys who go to Europe instead of pretending to be a college student for a semester. It's part of why some people might rush to defend Cam Newton. It's part of why some people might rush to condemn him. It's not all of the story, of course. But it's a part of it. It's relevant.
Strongly agree with the below that this is condescending and over-generalizing that immediately jumped to the issue of race without any indication that race played a significant role in this issue. Players of many races have taken money while in CFB, and former ASU QB Sam Keller (not African-American) led the charge in suing the NCAA over player likenesses in NCAAFB video games. You can make this argument without racializing it. You're better than this, Don.
Arguing that Newton should be content with what he had because "it was enough for the civil rights leaders" seems ridiculous. Having an equal opportunity as everyone else to attend a university is distinct from the question of benefits extracted by universities from athletes who generate hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue for the schools, and whether such students deserve compensation.
Also, athletic scholarships DO NOT cover the full cost of attendance (http://www.cbsatlanta.com/sports/25512291/detail.html)
Seriously? He might have broken NCAA regulations, not federal law. And if he broke these regulations, he will never play college football again, which seems to be just punishment to me anyway.
Unless of coarse you're reporting the $$ you get... which then, so much for no paper trail....
Not saying he SHOULD do jail, just that if people like the FBI get involved, it wouldn't be that absurd...
Newton may have broken federal law or at least his family. If his dad took money, there is a decent chance he broke a federal law such as structuring, money laundering, or some type of tax reporting law. I'm not saying it happened, but if it did, it is hard to avoid a paper trail for $200,000 without breaking a federal law.
It's obvious the risk of bringing shame to one's self as well as an entire program isn't enough to deter these kids from taking money. I'm not necessarily saying Cam should be the one going to prison, nor do I have any knowledge of what laws he, Auburn, or his family broke by doing what they did (whatever that may be). What I am saying is that the ncaa and the FBI should inflict the harshest punishments possible on anyone and everyone involved. I don't care if Cam Newton gets sent to Gitmo to be waterboarded for a couple of years, I don't want this crap happening to Michigan.
Poor form, dude.
I take back the waterboarding part.
Why do't we see some proof before we start talking about sending him to Gitmo? Tell you what, even if there is proof, let's don't talk about Gitmo. kthx
Are feeling a bit ripped off if the numbers are true.
Of course, you've got to account for inflation. Of course, Craig James thinks this means blowing up balloons.
Craig James is feeling more "trapped in a utility shed." Except not really.
With all the controversy starting, I'm sure Dee Hart is glad he stuck with us. I wonder if we a chance with other Auburn recruits.
The only recruit that has a Michigan offer is Kiehl Frazier. I think there was some early interest, not really sure what happened with his recruitment.
They also have a commit by the name of Chris Landrum, who is apparently on our team already????
LOL epic. Love the rooftop baptistry. No doubt has jets in it.
+1 for the effort in paint
I wonder how much BJ Daniels got.
Whatever it was, it was too much.
He has been a pretty big disappointment thus far in nearly two years as a starter for USF. I'm glad we have Denard Forcier instead of Daniels, personally.
Daniels passing numbers this season: 59%, 155 ypg, 8 TD, 11 INT
Daniels rushing numbers this season: 240 yards total, 30.0 ypg, 2.9 ypc, 4 TD
should be surprised. The SEC and Auburn/Bama are as dirty as they come.
Until a ruling comes out please don't prosecute the kid. We of all people should know about the media allegedly uncovering things that aren't necessarily true.
Normally, I would agree with you but this appears to be coming from multiple sources and is being spearheaded by the national media, not a local media outlet with an axe to grind.
I do agree that judgement should be reserved until more has been revealed but based on what has come out at this early juncture...it is not looking good for Newton/Auburn.
FBI and the IRS getting involved... where have a i seen this one before???
You know who benefits the most from this... TCU. I bet a dollar that Auburn slowly starts to slip in the polls, and this whole thing will become a distraction for Auburn and cause them to lose to Bama or in the SEC title game.
I can easily see that this article predates the ESPN one (which was posted early this morning), and I'm too lazy to chase the details, *and* I'm not generally a big fan of Doyel, but here you go:
New allegations aside, I think it's safe to say that a few people jumped the gun on this. Freep-ish, really.
So, I guess this is a comment on the events up to yesterday evening.
The ESPN article linked by the OP is based on the same source as everything else, John Bond. But Bond would not agree to talk to ESPN without anonymity, so ESPN does not directly name him. But they do so indirectly (read the whole article). If you don't think their first source is Bond, I've got a nice bridge I'd like to sell you in Brooklyn.
With regard to Bond's credibility, he was/is involved in a project to build luxury condos next to the university stadium --- Rich Rodriguez's investments in similar projects at Virginia Tech and Alabama failed ugly, and so it's possible Bond is having serious money problems of his own, like Lamar Greene (problematic Clemson booster), the guy who basically swindled Rodriguez et al. in those deals.
Then ESPN has a second source, the person who Newton called (a nice thing to do, and something money-grubbing scumbags generally don't make their kids do) after he chose Auburn -- the source of the "it was too much money" quote. Dunno who that might be, but it's probably safe to say that it could be smoke but no fire, a misunderstanding in an awkward conversation between an adult and a 17-year-old. There's no question Auburn, a private university, and Mississippi State, a public university in a state that has always been dead last in education spending in the United States, are worlds apart when it comes to money to spend on facilities and the like.
If I were Auburn, I'd consider hiring you to represent us at the hearing.
This is bad. Way worse than USC potentially.
The question we all need to ask ourselves is how do they go from getting lit in recruiting by one of the nation's top teams and coaches (in their own state no less), coming off a down season under a quality coach in Tubberville, then hire a guy that got run out of Iowa State he was so blah, and still get to this in a little over a year?
Joe Schad is a solid reporter. Auburn is staring down the barrel of a loaded gun. They may as well do what they are doing: hissing and fighting it in the media. Then just hope everything turns out alright. If it was done, the damage is set and they'll get nailed anyways.
Totally and utterly disagree about Joe Schad being an ethically solid reporter...but that's for another day...
Auburn is public
Unless ESPN is purposefully misdescribing Bond (something that I don't believe any competent editor would allow, much easier to say "someone close to the situation"), the two sources in the latest ESPN piece can't possibly be him. The ESPN report specifically refers to "two sources who recruit for Mississippi State." This basically has to be coaches, boosters aren't allowed to recruit.
And as was pointed out above, Auburn is public and actually is substantially similar to Miss. St. Both are the "little brothers" within their respective states, both from an academic and athletic standpoint. Yes, Auburn has had more success and probably is a little more flush in the cash department, but they're not all that different. In fact, if Auburn was private, they would actually most likely have less money to spend on facilities/recruits. ND and USC are pretty much the only private schools that can compete with the big state school giants when it comes to college athletics spending, and even that is a stretch.
about Auburn being private. Wow, my idea of what that place is all about would seem to be completely wrong.
But I will dispute your assumptions about  ESPN caring about having "competent" editors (I'll argue their editors are interested in one thing -- page views and television-audience numbers), and  the meaning of "two sources who recruit for Mississippi State" -- it's a huge leap to assume that ESPN would only use that to mean coaches. Sure, the second source might well be a coach -- I don't see Cam calling anyone else to explain his decision. But the first source, who claims to have been privy to something more than just an after-the-fact conversation in which a child said something odd, is almost certainly not a coach. Moreover, he's saying the same exact thing as Bond. It's Bond. Probably the second source is a Mississippi State coach who knows Bond, i.e., Bond referred ESPN to him. These guys have been sitting around bitching about Newton's recruitment, and Bond took it to the next level. If Bond is full of shit, then the whole thing falls apart.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. In my mind a recruiter can only be a coach, the reason for the obtuse phrasing is to protect MSU coaches who as per SEC policy aren't allowed to comment on compliance matters concerning other SEC schools.
I understand you wanting to pin this all on an MSU booster, but to me, that just seems unlikely. I get not liking ESPN editors and thinking they're all about page views, but there are several tenets of journalism that would prevent citing Bond in such a way. First, Bond doesn't really have any need for anonymity at this point. His name is already connected to the story. Second, it's plain unethical to use a anonymous source and claim that he has a position he clearly does not have. I don't believe even poor editors only concerned with page views would allow what you allege. Finally, Joe Schad wasn't even one of the reporters on the original story. He hasn't had any connection to Bond, that we know of, it makes more sense that he developed his own sources for the story.
Also note that I don't have an opinion with regard to whether or not Cecil Newton's church got big money from Auburn boosters after his son committed to play at Auburn. I just don't think there is any convincing evidence at this point that he was shopping Cam's decision to boosters, which is what the allegation is, or rather was, if indeed the NCAA has had this information since January.
If he did, Auburn is in line for the same kinds of penalties USC got after the Bush investigation, which also involved parents taking advantage of the situation. But, like USC, I personally doubt the coaches themselves would know about it in any specific way -- they might choose to ignore warning signs, but they wouldn't actually be involved.
The only source for the Reggie Bush allegations ended up being Lake and Michaels, the two guys who gave Bush the money and felt they got ripped off when he refused to sign with them or pay them back. That pair had a very extensive criminal history.
It might be fair to give Auburn the benefit of the doubt right now, but if recent NCAA precedent means anything then Cam Newton is likely in very deep doo-doo at the moment.
Doyel's argument that Meyer and UF are behind the leaks of the UF part of the growing feeding frenzy, but my casual first impression is that he is using the same methods to discredit Meyer that he accuses others of using to discredit Newton, ie, uninformed speculation. His claim of a UF connection puts me in the mind of Rosenberg and his UM degree; I can't help thinking that there is something disfunctional in his relationship to his UF roots.
I'm no Meyer fan. I'm just not totally sold on Doyel's writing in this story.
All of this should be of no surprise. Barkley admitted in Sept to taking money while he was at Auburn. This school obviously needs to look deep into its boosters to see what is going on before they get hit hard. Yes, I know a long, long time has passed since Sir Charles was a Tiger, but it still shows that this has happened before at this school and that it could easily happen again.
Wow you are right , I forgot about that, this makes it look even worse.
I can see it....come to Auburn, we've been paying players since 1965.
+20,000,000 for that!
At least admit that you got this pic from the epic shaggybevo co-op statue thread. You make it sound like you did this, and unless your username is RollTideTA...
By the way, that thread is TRULY epic. Several of the guys from tigerdroppings (LSUFreek, Rattlehead, and Notorious GOP) made their way over there and did some incredible (as usual) stuff.
and I sourced on a thread yesterday that is gone.
Sorry for any misunderstanding. I have no photoshop skills nor the time to develop them............just the time to follow the musings of 17 year old football players.
Thanks for the clarification. Tough to tell on the interwebs, you know? I obviously missed your other post. =)
is up to 30 pages last I looked.
Does Auburn deserve the death penalty if these charges bear out? The Mayor, Kyle King, at Dawg Sports certainly thought they deserved the death penalty. IN 2006! The history of charges against Auburn is insane...
"Probation" is not an unfamiliar word on the Plains. Auburn's N.C.A.A. infractions history includes seven major infractions cases in the last 50 years, not including the present unpleasantness in the so-called Loveliest Village.
Auburn's history of major violations includes getting slapped with three years' probation in 1957, three years' probation in 1958, and a two-year ban on postseason and television appearances in 1979.
Auburn was held responsible for unethical conduct in November 1991 and sanctioned for unethical conduct and a lack of institutional control in August 1993.
In the latter instance, the N.C.A.A. imposed punishments upon the Auburn athletic department just as Terry Bowden was about to begin his first season as the Tigers' head coach. Following his subsequent resignation under fire, Coach Bowden said on tape that A.U. boosters were funneling large amounts of cash to recruits.
The most recent instance of wrongdoing on the Plains occurred when Auburn was placed on two years' probation on April 27, 2004. The N.C.A.A. news release announcing the latest penalties against the Plainsmen stated that, during the probationary period from April 2004 to April 2006, "the university shall continue to develop and implement a comprehensive educational program on NCAA legislation and submit periodic reports to the NCAA," including "a preliminary report that sets forth a schedule for establishing this compliance and educational program."
And of course, the "present unpleasantness" at the time was surrounding alleged academic fraud in 2005/2006, while the 2004 incident surrounded the secret recruitment of Bobby Petrino while Tuberville was still the head coach. They were eventually cleared, but that is a litany of charges. If these latest charges prove to have merit, SHOULD Auburn be given the death penalty?
Poor Auburn. This only adds to all the good Karma we had with last week. Now we just need a recruit or two to commit, plus a win at Purdue. We are on a roll.
If Mississippi State had just paid the money up front to get him. And I thought they were in the SEC. It's no wonder they haven't had a winning record in the conference in ten years.
So is there any hope at all that Auburn has dirt on the rest of the SEC programs and can use that info to avoid the death penalty? I'd love to see the entire SEC dirty house of cards come crashing down.
A guy can dream can't he?
Highly doubt it.
Apparently people at the NCAA expressed regret about the SMU death penatly as it basically killed their athletic department for 20+ years. They're only now just starting to bounce back.
Plus, SMU had widespread problems involving most of their players. With Auburn we're talking about just 1. In other words, if these charges pan out, I'm guessing the penalties look more like USC's current ones than the SMU death sentence.
Couldn't find anything officially documented but the NCAA pretty much said the death penalty does not exist anymore after what it did to SMU's program.
It hasn't happened at the D1 football level, but Moorehouse Soccer and MacMurry Tennis have both received the death penalty within the last 10 years.
Also, not quite the death penalty, but Baylor basketball was limited to regular season conference games after their recent scandal.
I wonder if the damages SMU faced would be replicated at a place like Auburn. They would undoubtedly suffer, but if say they were forced to sit out one season, would they be set back for 20 years? I find it hard to believe with the TV money and BCS money they would receive that they couldn't recover withing 5-10 years. If it can be proven that Auburn's coaches knew about the alleged payout, I think the death penalty is an appropriate penalty.
If Auburn paid Cam Newton, they deserve the death penalty.
kick in the groin for Auburn fans. This could end up as the third undefeated season in the last 17 years for Auburn without a National Championship.
They went undefeated in 1993 but were on probation and not eligible to be voted National Champs by the Coaches. The AP voted them 4th, behind three one loss teams.
They then went undefeated in 2004, only to see the BCS formula pick USC and Oklahoma, who were both also undefeated.
Fast forward to 2010 where, if they can hold serve these next few weeks, they most certainly will play in the NC game. If they were to win, it may be a foregone conclusion that the title will eventually be taken away.
You'd think that Auburn would have learned from the Albert Means scandal and, if Alabama having been on the brink of receiving the death penalty hadn't sent enough of a message, the Reggie Bush scandal. I guess it only further demonstrates that "SEC speed" doesn't refer to learning ability.
his dad is a Preacher. Straight Cash Homie.
could put some type of insurance policy in place for players that have a future NFL career ending injury. Then they have their education and some cash to get them started on a different career path ??
I posted yesterday a call for restraint in this matter. I have now changed my mind and I'm on the way to the hardware store now.
How much do pitchforks cost anyways?
I hate to say "that's the SEC", but this really does not come as any surprise to me. It is a tough spot these families find themselves in, and while it certainly does not excuse actively and knowingly breaking the NCAA rules, I don't completely blame them either for trying to make good on promise that is one ACL injury away from disappearing forever.
I agree on the families - can't fault them totally for doing what is in their best interests - blaming them is too easy for the schools or anyone else.
but I knew this guy reminded me of Pryor for some reason!
Anyone notice this? What's his angle here? Why doesn't he hunt down Newton with the same doggedness he does for Rich Rodriguez? Freep FTW.
I just read this and was thinking, WTF? Unreal.
No kidding... he even goes with the everybody cheats like this line of reasoning.
I was just coming to ask the same thing. Buying players no big deal. Extra stretching is an abomination.
Michael Rosenberg, better known to the world as the man who would connect Somali food supply instability to Rich Rodriguez's improper and excessive use of athletic tape on Michigan's shoulder pads, takes the ice to the tune of Nickelbacks "Hurrg Gurngle Fartbuckle Urngh" 'and executes a perfect triple Salchow of stupidity.
"What I find remarkable is that, if all of this is true, the under-the-table payments are what would upset people the most. I mean, yes, it is against NCAA rules. But in any other segment of society, if a college kid found a way to use his talents to bring in money to support his father's church, he would be a hero. There would be glowing newspaper profiles and probably a few humanitarian awards. If a kid does it in college football, he's a villain."
Christopher Hitchens just ripped out his IV of chemo and Johnnie Walker Black reading that, but he probably does that three or four times a day (to change it out) (because he requires more whiskey, not more chemo.)
Hate to see it happen to anyone, but hopefully this is dealt with swiftly and effectively. Can't have this sort of rule breaking running rampant in the NCAA.
from yesterday. The suspense is killing me!
Kenny Rogers, on ESPN Dallas radio, telling the interviewer that Cecil Newton told him, in front of two Miss St coaches, that it would take "between $100,000 and $180,000" to sign Cam.
You reap what you sow. The pro-Newton faction tried to make it out like Rogers was an independent actor trying to make $ off of Rogers, giving Rogers an incentive to come public and clear his name.
I know a lot of you are trying to say "Freep innocent until proven guilty etc etc" but this case is different. Notice how the Newtons don't actually deny anything -- they just shoot the messenger or say "I'm not talking about that." They are guilty.
What is horrifying about this whole story is how a father is willing to put his son's future at risk so he can make some extra cash. I'm surprised more people haven't called him out for that.
Yeah it's pretty much human trafficking (what his dad did). That is, if the allegations are true, and it's starting to look like they are.
FBI now involved for possible extortion. Funny, when Robert Smithsaid he would still have Cam on his Heisman ballot, Desmond Howard was laughing and said- " Robert Smith has a Heisman ballot??? haha Since when did Robert Smith have a heisman ballot. ??" He was calling him out.
Also, Auburn is "no comment" on whether Cam will play.
News agency is reporting a source having said Cecil Newton has now admitted solicitating money from Mississippi State.
Says Cam knew nothing about it nor did Auburn but that's not going to matter to the NCAA.
Tucked away about 1/2 way down the page...
"Now Auburn has hired consultant Gene Marsh, a former chairman of the NCAA infractions committee, to help present its case. The retired University of Alabama law professor has worked on such cases as the recent Michigan football investigation. Marsh also had no comment on the situation Sunday."
This is the first I've heard it insinuated that Auburn may actually have to defend itself. So far, most of the talk has been about MSU knowing. Auburn has maintained they had no clue. If true, why this? We'll see.
Cecil Newton reportedly admitting to soliciting money but claims son, wife knew nothing
coming up next on ESPN radio, likely refers to the story that came out Saturday but interesting all the same.