OT: Calvin Johnson Officially Retires
Lions waste a great player
Again.
As long as the Ford family is running the Lions, this year's de facto motto will be "58 years of incompetence and counting." I started following the Lions as a young child in 1959, two years after their last NFL Championship. Never in my wildest nightmares did I imagine that they would still, as of 2016, not have won another NFL Championship.
The Ford family has owned the Lions since 1964. They have arguably been the worst franchise in the NFL over the lsat 52 years. Changing coaches, GM's and players isn't going to change the fact that the problem starts at the top.
You didn't add the word "another," which makes your post look stupid... ;-)
6' 5", 237 lbs, 4.38 40 yd dash.
a freak of nature. jerry rice was what, 4.7 speed and tiny compared to calvin, plus played on teams that were so stacked they couldn't camp out on rice like they could on calvin.
Jerry Rice used Stickum, however, Calvin had the newfangled gloves. So maybe that's a wash. Never mind...
Sickum was outlawed in '81 (the "Lester Hayes Rule") so Jerry Rice missed it by a few years. Receivers used gloves in the '80's, but they were nothing like the ones in this era.
has openly admitted to using stickum.
single season recorda few years back, and rice was so lacking in grace and humility. no excuse for that.
That's cheating. He shouldn't have worn stickum.
I highly doubt that someone remembers when an (otherwise) obscure product was banned so you would think the ol' Goolge search would have tipped him off to Rice's admission of said use.
I'm ready for the new look Lions. I'm glad the new GM has this cap space, and the only thing that would be better is if he could trade Stafford for a whole mess of draft picks, but with this years QB draft class that probably won't happen.
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Fans should really get the 'trade Stafford' or 'get rid of Stafford' stuff out of their heads. He's a good QB, not great, but good. That's more than most teams can say. The grass is not always greener, and in this case it's brown, on the other side.
Who are they going to get who's better?
Stafford is young, under contract at a decent # (for a QB), and has a monster arm. All qualities a lot of teams are dying to have.
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Fair enough. But what do you in two years when that 'decent' contract is up and Stafford is 30 years old? Resign him to a new likely larger contract? If Jay Cutler can get 7 years $126M at age 30 why couldn't Stafford?
The best case scenario is that he resigns to another short term deal in the 3 year ~$50M range next off season so we don't have to worry about free agency in 2018. But why would Stafford do that? The prospects of landing a huge deal are much better at age 30 than at age 32. So he'll probably want to wait until 2018 to see what the Lions offer and decide if he wants to test free agency.
But, if you trade him now you could probably get a lot of value for him for all the reasons that you said we should keep him.
But if the new GM invests this new cap space in the defense and the running game we can probably be very successful with a 'good not great' QB like Stafford.
If the Lions trade Stafford, here are the top candidates to be starting QB next year:
-Dan Orlovsky
-Brian Hoyer
-Matt Cassel
-RGIII
-EJ Manuel
-(random list of guys with medically confirmed right arm)
Basically your new run game is facing 8-9 man boxes and that defense you've invested in is wasted unless they can hold opponents under 13 regularly. Stafford is a proven commodity and you can't give that up based on speculation.
Jake Rudock a.k.a. Tom Brady 2.0
The Lions are 39-41(0.488) over the last 5 years with Stafford as their full time starter. I agree that he is better than the John Kitnas and Joey Harringtons, and his stats prove it, but his monster stats aren't translating into wins.
By comparison Jay Cutler was 39-28 (0.582) as the Bears starting QB when he signed his mega-deal at age 30.
To reach the same winning percentage with the lions that Cutler had with the bears Stafford needs to win 81.8% of his starts over the next two seasons, or about 13 games a year. So basically we are looking at a guy who won't even reach Jay Cutler level winning percentage before his current deal is up. IMO we can keep Stafford, but we need to start looking for a replacement, or sign him to a new deal now because I'll be very disappointed if the Lions sign Stafford to a huge deal in two years.
First of all, you can't judge a QB solely on wins and losses. It takes teams to win games. While I do think Stafford is partly responsible for the win percentage I am not letting Jim Shorts off scot free and even Caldwell for hiring that tire fire* of an OC Joe Lombardi.
*Sorry to tire fires for the insult. You prove more useful than Joe Lombardi ever was.
"you can't judge a QB solely on wins and losses"
You most certainly can. In fact that is a primary method of comparing QB careers against each other. Better QBs win more games. It may not be causation but it is a strong correlation. Only QBs who have great stats, but aren't winners, say otherwise.
Is Eli Manning a better QB than Dan Marino because he has two Super Bowls to Marino's zero?
Agree 100%. You can place all the blame you want on Stafford, but how many times have we heard the boys on the NFL Network say that with their offensive line, you could put Aaron Rodgers back there and he'd look average at best. No OL, no Super Bowl. I'm praying for Quinn to understand this and to find someone who can judge OL talent, identify how to get it, and then actually go out and get it. The best teams have continuity along the line.
Love me some Calvin. Didn't want to see him retire, but the leg injuries were making him a part-time receiver for crazy money. Great player, great person from all reports. Probably won't see another receiver like him in Honolulu Blue again. Too bad he never got a Super Bowl ring. He led by example. Would like to see a few players with some fire do our leading.
Looking forward to seeing what the Lions do with all this cap money. Now we see how smart our new GM actually is.
Who is going to give up a mess of draft piucks for Stafford and what QB do you think the Lions realistically get that will be better? I'm not a Stafford fan, but I don;t think he's the reason for the Lions ills.
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Jerry Jones likes Stafford and I think the Cowboys have some decent talent that the Lions could get in a trade.
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We'll see how he does this season without Calvin Johnson. The previous GM did nothing but surround him with weapons and they couldn't even reach a 0.500 record over the last 5 years.
Supider than drafting:
Charles Rogers, Roy Williams and Mike Williams in successive drafts?
or Aaron Gibson then Stockar McDougle in successive drafts?
I think Stafford is about to be exposed as being very bad without Calvin to bail him out. I think this is the perfect opportunity to sell high if you are offered something irresistible. Hershel Walker being traded to the Vikings was the launchpad to the 1990s Cowboys success.
The fact that a guy like Trent Dilfer won a superbowl shows that even a mediocre QB can win with the right supporting case but I don't think that the Lions have the right supporting cast to support Stafford while they rebuilt their O-line and RBs.
"I think Stafford is about to be exposed as being very bad without Calvin to bail him out. I think this is the perfect opportunity to sell high if you are offered something irresistible."
Pretty much sums up my opinion on Stafford. Although I was an advocate of the fresh start approach. New GM, new coach, and new QB. I'd love to be proven wrong and have the lions go to the playoffs for the next 5 years and win some playoff games.
I am going to backpeddle a bit. Stafford is not "very bad" but I don't think the Lions are going anywhere with him at QB. I also don't think he is going to lead anyone else to the Superbowl. As you have astutely pointed out, the Lions surrounded him with weapons and he could was not much above average as a QB over the past 5 years.
Yes, finding a great QB is hard but there are plenty of cheaper options out there.
Stafford is a sunk cost at this point and if you can get value for him, you do it.
I am going to backpeddle a bit. Stafford is not "very bad" but I don't think the Lions are going anywhere with him at QB. I also don't think he is going to lead anyone else to the Superbowl. As you have astutely pointed out, the Lions surrounded him with weapons and he was not much above average as a QB over the past 5 years.
Yes, finding a great QB is hard but there are plenty of cheaper options out there.
Stafford is a sunk cost at this point and if you can get value for him, you do it.
for Matthew Stafford.
If your point is "everyone has his price", fair enough. The initiator rarely gets the screaming deal, however.
$$$ now. Best of luck Calvin
First Barry, now Calvin as Thad so correctly points out. I officially gave up my title as Lions fan in 1978, but you can't turn off the love for the game. Naturally, I watched No. 20 do it better than anyone before or since and enjoyed watching Johnson as well, both however from the comfort of my home and free of charge. If they aren't going to try, and guys, it's been since I was 5, years before the Super Bowl, since they've won a championship, should they retain far support?
I justified if for awhile by saying, ":At least I will watch one pro team today." However, when they were matched against equally inept opposition, that half ass logic didn't even hold up any longer.
I prefer the way Calvin retired, by a mile. I don't fault Barry for retiring early, but I do detest the way he did it. He didn't answer/return phone calls; refused to see the Bobby Ross when Ross flew out to visit with him; didn't communicate with the GM/owner/management group. I have no respect for people that lack so much respect. But I do love the way he played and will always credit him for being a blessing to the game...
That was the Lions fault for ignoring all signs pointing to retirement. They should've planned for the obvious.
Franchise will never go anywhere until it gets over it Statford worship.
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The franchise has been in rough shape for a lot longer than Matt Stafford has been around.
on 12.5 comments before a "Blame it on Stafford" comment was made. And I was right.