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OT: Cabrera to win Triple Crown Tonight?

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October 3rd, 2012 at 2:08 PM | Once in a Generation? (Score:3 Normal)
saveferris
saveferris's picture
Joined: 07/02/2009
MGoPoints: 3221

I think the book is still out on Trout.  No doubt he has elite speed and is an outstanding fielder, but there are already indications that pitchers have begun to catch up to him at the plate as his hitting has tailed off a bit the past two months.  Elite hitters still get on base despite pitchers knowing how to pitch to them.  Trout has yet to prove that he can do that.  In a year or two, if he's still hitting .340 and scoring 120 runs, then I will grant you that he's the next great player, and if he's still doing that, he'll get his MVP award and the Angels will be making the playoffs.

 

"...what do you say, is it the new Bluesmobile or what?"

"Fix the cigarette lighter."

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October 3rd, 2012 at 6:05 PM | Can I get a little (Score:2)
MichiganExile
Joined: 01/12/2009
MGoPoints: 1121

Can I get a little clarification from you on something? Are you advocating that Trout is undeserving of the MVP because he hasn't been succesful for very long? I'm genuinely not trying to start a fight I just haven't heard the argument that Trout hasn't proven he can get on base consistently. Trout's September hasn't been as productive as the rest of his season was but he was still one of the best players in baseball during that time. He has basically a full season under his belt at this point and it has been one hell of a season. He may never produce a season like this again because some of the best players in baseball simply can't always reproduce that type of season. Just because Trout hasn't had success for multiple consecutive seasons like Cabrera doesn't mean you can simply discount what he's done THIS season.

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October 3rd, 2012 at 9:35 PM | Trout is having the greatest (Score:1)
Maize_Nation
Joined: 07/29/2012
MGoPoints: 219

Trout is having the greatest season in MLB history for a 20 year old.

He's as good of a bet to be a generational talent as there has ever been.

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October 3rd, 2012 at 1:58 PM | Not saying you're wrong, however... (Score:4 Normal)
TheLastHoke
TheLastHoke's picture
Joined: 08/06/2008
MGoPoints: 3166

Discounting RBIs as being primarily a result of circumstances beyond the hitter's control while pumping up stolent bases, which are just as circumstantial as RBIs (the pitcher's delivery speed, the catcher's arm, accuracy, and delivery speed, the type and placement of the pitch, whether the opposing team is even concerned if you steal in that situation or not, etc...) is a tad disingenuous.

HOKEAMANIA RUNNIN' WILD

Formerly, TheLastProphet

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October 3rd, 2012 at 6:28 PM | It's (Score:1 Normal)
aquaman2342
aquaman2342's picture
Joined: 01/26/2010
MGoPoints: 6176

It's not a coincidence that Austin Jackson has had a career year getting on base (I was dead wrong on him) and Cabrera's sudden boost in RBI. 

Recruit Files: Robert Foster

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October 3rd, 2012 at 4:19 PM | As a Tigers fan, i certainly (Score:2)
TyrannousLex
Joined: 11/05/2011
MGoPoints: 276

As a Tigers fan, i certainly want Cabrera to win the MVP, but i can make a compelling arguement for either player. And i certainly wouldn't feel like it's a travesty if Trout wins.

However, i'd end up voting for Miggy based on a few things. One, the higher average over more games; not playing as many games isn't Trout's fault, but it's still a fact. Two, Trout's production has fallen off in August and September. Three, late season and late inning production stats really favor Cabrera. Four, the intagibles of switching positions to a more difficult to field position and performing above expectations (certainly not being a liability). This one you could balance out with Trout being a rookie, which counts for something; on the other hand, Trout has only proven that he's really fast and had an incredible couple of months in the middle of the season.

In the end and assuming Cabrera wins the Triple Crown, that will matter a hell of a lot more than winning the MVP. Cabrera will be on a short list with some of the games greatest hitters and will be the last Triple Crown winner for what could be a few decades based on history. In five years Trout winning the MVP will be forgotten by most except when it pops up as a question about rookie MVP winners in bar trivia or becomes the exclamation point on the first season of an incredible career.

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October 3rd, 2012 at 4:42 PM | Hamilton, 2 ABs no HR (Score:3 Informative)
Maize and Blue in OH
Maize and Blue in OH's picture
Joined: 10/01/2008
MGoPoints: 832

Hamilton, 2 ABs, no HR through 3.  He is up 2nd in the 4th.

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October 3rd, 2012 at 4:47 PM | Hamilton Ks (Score:2 Normal)
Maize and Blue in OH
Maize and Blue in OH's picture
Joined: 10/01/2008
MGoPoints: 832

Hamilton strikes out in the 4th.

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October 3rd, 2012 at 5:29 PM | Holy crap the A's are playing (Score:2)
WMUgoblue
WMUgoblue's picture
Joined: 12/06/2009
MGoPoints: 3181

Holy crap the A's are playing some inspired baseball, that was a crazy 4th inning!

Blank.....Blank......You're not looking at the big picture here.

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October 3rd, 2012 at 6:27 PM | I fully agree and I hate to (Score:2)
MichiganExile
Joined: 01/12/2009
MGoPoints: 1121

I fully agree and I hate to say this but you're probably never gonna convince many people that WAR is a useful stat. It isn't a HUGELY subjective stat, but there is a degree of uncertainty to it because of the nature of evaluating defensive ability and baserunning. People tend to either trust the stats and math that go into producing WAR or they cling to the old-guard stats. The people in the middle (like most on this board) that are willing to consider WAR but are still a little skeptical are few and far between. 

More importantly you're also not gonna convince a bunch of Tigers fans of its immense value and that is simply because right now WAR says there has been a guy with a significantly better season than Cabrera did. That's not necessarily a bad thing. WAR is easy to discount because it hasn't been widely accepted yet and because quantifying baserunning and defense is difficult to do and even more difficult to understand. The argument against WAR being the end-all-be-all makes sense because trying to condense all the things a guy does onto the field into one useful stat does seem rather impossible. 

Full disclosure, I like WAR. I think it is an extremely useful stat to guide further evaluation of a player's production. The argument about Trout vs. Cabrera will just come down to what each voter values in their baseball players though. If all a voter cares about is what a guy does at the plate the choice seems pretty obvious. If Trout wins the MVP it probably will signal a major changing of the guard in voter thinking about the MVP award (kind of like King Felix's Cy Young did). 

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October 3rd, 2012 at 9:37 PM | For the most part I agree, (Score:1)
Maize_Nation
Joined: 07/29/2012
MGoPoints: 219

For the most part I agree, but one point of contention, RBI isn't the worst stat, saves is.

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