He could have gotten married and banged away all he wanted within the rules. Besides BYU's policy is well within the cultural and social norms of the Mormon church.
OT: BYU's Davies reportedly kicked off team for having sexual relations
Maybe, just maybe, just spitballing here, he respects his fucking parents, and follows in their footsteps. Maybe his dad isn't a pimp, nor his mom a cock sucking whore, and he follows what they belive, which happens to agree with the chuch they FUCKING FOLLOW!.. Nothing better than a bunch of 25 year old azzholes with no kids on this blog telling us how to raise kids. None of you are 5 feet from what your parents did, you just don't realize it. 'My parents gave me freedom",,,,,,,,,,,,fuck you they did. You're still just like them, they hope.
If I'm Beilein I'm on the horn with this kid yesterday.
Come to Michigan! You can bang any number of girls and still come to practice the next day.
The first step is getting the time of day from them (not easy).
It works stunningly well and saves a lot of time.
"Excuse me, miss. I was wondering if you would give me the time of day?" In three seconds flat, you know if you've got a chance to get into her pants, and nobody's feelings are hurt.
Lest anyone think it is safe for us Michiganians to hurl stones:
"Any man who shall seduce and debauch any unmarried woman shall be guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment in the state prison not more than 5 years or by fine of not more than 2,500 dollars"
This law is still on the books in Michigan. Just getting kicked out of school is looking pretty good, now, isn't it?
There are a ton of ridiculous laws all over this great land that will never again be enforced, and some that are enforced very often. In conclusion, never get caught making sweet sweet love by any authority figure or you will be in hot water.
There is no question that the rules at BYU are like something from several centuries ago. But geez, everyone who goes there goes knowing their rules are built on religious fundamentalism. There are plenty of other schools to go to if you won't want to deal with that crap.
This kid decided to that was what he wanted, and now he is paying the price. Moral of the story--if you want to act like it is 2011, don't go to a school that acts like it is 1811.
Well, this thread was not worth over 100 replies.
So I'm a BYU student, and I am really proud of my school for a university sticking to what it believes in. I would rather have the basketball team lose every single game than root for a team that doesn't keep the Honor Code. Our honor is more important than winning games.
And for all of you that say that it isn't fair, he knew what he was getting into coming to BYU. He went to Provo High, twenty seconds across the street from campus. I don't care if you think that we're backwards, it is what it is. The Honor Code helps us to live our religion to the best of our abilities, and it really isn't that bad. And I don't really think a critiscism of the LDS religion is really an acceptable topic of discussion on this board.
We all feel terrible for Brandon. I've met him before, and he's an awesome guy. He just made a mistake, and now the entire country knows about it. I respect him that he was a big enough man to admit that he made a mistake, even with all that's riding on him this season. We still love him here in Provo.
I think everyone who debates this topic should read something like this (obviously this is impractical, but I can wish). Brandon Davies has sure acted admirably considering that people have put his face next to his indiscretion all over the media.
Thanks. I really just fealt that people should get a point of view of someone close to the situation. I have a huge amount of respect for Brandon for admitting what he did. I wouldn't want my personal life talked about all over the country.
"And I don't really think a critiscism of the LDS religion is really an acceptable topic of discussion on this board."
I've got to agree with you 100%. Like I said before, I know a lot of people at service academies, and they take their Honor Code the same way you seem to. It's important, and it's something you know coming in. I said farther up that your particular code isn't for me, but that's irrelevent other than to say that I sure respect you for adhering to your own code, regardless of my own.
As to the quote I dragged from your post, I'm sorry you had to see that here tonight. I'll break MGoBoards code here to plead with you to look at the point totals of those who were involved in the bashing, and who came to defend. The "regulars" here definitely agree with that, and I hope you realized that throughout the thread.
Thank you. I really appreciate your comments. It's really killing me to watch my school and religion mocked in the national media all day. I really appreciate you, and everyone else who stood up for us.
The way I look at it, I don't judge anyone else for their lifestyle, so why judge mine? It isn't draconian or restrictive at all. I honestly barely even notice it. It isn't any different than the rules that a faithful member of our church would live by.
And I know that many people here were defending BYU and the LDS church. It was still extremelly frustrating to watch my fellow Michigan fans bash something that means so much to me. But I know that it was a small minority, and I really appreciate your comments. Thank you
I wish I could tell you that I understand a bit of what you feel, but that would involve getting into my personal politics (I've already talked religion and MGoPoints today, and I want to be here tomorrow). I'm with you about seeing things you love get mocked day-to-day.
Live and let live is the best course of action. This hate and divide, especially on a friggin' sports blog, gets us nowhere.
I agree. I really appreciate everything that you have been saying all throughout this thread. I'm not offended by the comments that some posters here have made. Honestly, you really just get used to taking abuse from people. I just really fealt like I needed to get my point of view (and the point of view of most BYU students, alums and fans) out in the open.
Honestly, I was wondering how long it would take to get a BYU alum/student on the board. Good to hear about the thick skin.
Here's to talking about beating MSU, and not posters religious practices.
I certainly respect BYU's right to enforce their own honor code. Are athletes held to a higher standard though? I know almuni who say all kinds of partying and debauchery happens on campus, are the athletes under a bigger microscope? Also does the honor code allow for one to learn from their mistakes or are students just thrown out the first time they break a tenet?
I guess the only way I would see this as unfair is if recruits are told or led to believe by coaches, players, and current students that you can get away with certain things. I heard some scuttlebutt that non LDS members recruited to the football team were lead to believe that the honor code wasn't as strict as it sounds but I'm not sure if that is true.
The Honor Code is the same for everyone; both athletes and regular students are treated equally. While it is true that bad stuff still happens on campus, it is nowhere near is bad as at most schools.
The reason that it may seem like athletes are held to a higher standard is that they are just in the public spotlight. As the name implies, most of the Honor Code stuff is up to you to report. I don't really think athletes are treated differently, you just don' hear about the regular students who are kicked out (I know of a few myself).
The Honor Code definitely has a way for you to learn from your mistakes. For minor offenses you are just put on probation. Even with larger offenses it is very difficult to be kicked out of school forever, with the exception of if you committed a crime. Even if you are suspended or kicked out of school, there is usually a way for you to eventually work your way back.
It is also not true that non-LDS athletes are told that it isn't as strict for them. It is just as strict for everyone, LDS or not. None of the coaches would ever purposely represent it that way either. Everyone knows exactly what is expected of them when they sign with BYU.
I know this was long, but I hope it answers some of your questions. And feel free to ask any more. I don't mind explaining things.
I feel bad for you DC Wolverine. I hope one day you will be able to free your mind from its indoctrinated state. Hopefully while you still have time to enjoy your youth.
Do you have any idea how intolerant you are? Apparently only people like justin and white tiger and Mormons know what it means to be tolerant on this board.
To read more about Mormons and tolerance, google "Mormons and homosexuality"
Good night. Tolerance for all!
that my parents didn't force any beliefs on me, but rather allowed me to develop my own opinions about the world, and what is right and wrong.
I am so thankful that I and my siblings did not grow up in a repressive community like Mr. Davies, being forced to believe that homosexuality and sex before marriage are sins. I am thankful that my brother was able to tell our family that he was gay at the age of 18, and we of course love him for who he is and love that he is able to communicate with us without fear of judgment. Compare that to the last generation when my relative couldn't tell her parents she was gay until she was in her 30s, or the generation before that when my relative lived in a sham marriage for 30 years before coming out.
I'm sorry for getting off topic but reading about people that are repressed and living as if it is still the 19th century within our country really gets me going.
As you called my name out, I think I should reply.
I have never claimed that people with opposing views from my own cannot be tolerant; two sides to an argument can both be easily tolerant or intolerant. What I had a "PC" issue with is calling out someones beliefs as draconian, or that their governing body is akin to stoning someone for enforcing a willingly signed contract.
Whatever you think about Mormonism in general isn't appropriate material here. You'll notice I never defended (or insulted) the Mormon religion other than to say it's an admirable trait to live up to ones code. I also pointed out that other colleges at the Division 1 level have similar restrictions on student-athletes that are not seen as "draconian", and made a similar point about professional athlete's contracts. On the other hand, there were numerous attacks- of which you seemed to always be in the center- on the religion itself.
If you want to join in the ad hominem, calling me "butt-slapping, homoerotic", fine; be my guest. If you want to take your chances getting banned by throwing slanders at someones religion, go for it. Just don't expect people to take you seriously when you put together an actual argument, and don't expect the rest of the board to support you any more than they did tonight.
You got riled up because I called a religion draconian. If you expect me to apologize, you're barking up the wrong tree.
The only real difference between you and I is that I think it's ok to say (on a message board off topic post) that I think that a religion is draconian and indoctrinating, and you don't.
I never made any ad hominem attacks or said anything that I wouldn't print in a newspaper editorial. My "arguments" were my own beliefs and my thoughts on the actual situation, not your attempts to change the discussion re: stoning and your straw men re: the military and "slanders". If you don't get what I'm trying to say, I'm not going to explain it to you any further.
Good luck with your crusade,
My argument was that there was no place for it on MGoBoard. We were talking about what happened (and has happened before), not the religious merits of it.
We aren't debating the Mormons or whatever they believe, because, frankly, I couldn't care less. I'm just saying that in this case they haven't indoctrinated anyone and are perfectly justified in how they acted, without imposing their beliefs on an unwilling party. Apparently you disagree, and I see this as intolerance of a people who want to believe and worship the way that they want.
I respect your opinion, but I do not think that I am indoctrinated. I go to BYU, and I am a member of the LDS church because I want to be. I chose this of my own free will because I believe it and it makes me happy. Before I got to college I was just like every other non-Mormon high school kid. I had time to "enjoy my youth" and honestly I wasn't happy. So am I really indoctrinated if my religion makes me happier than anything else in my entire life?
I know that I am not supposed to talk about religion on this board, but I really fealt like I needed to get my side of the story out. I am truly sorry if I offened anyone.
its option B then, you feel that religion saved your life.
I would say that many people aren't happy in high school, sometimes it takes more time growing up to discover who you are. I don't know you personally, but the people I know that have similar stories of redemption I find usually just didn't realize that they had the strength within themselves the whole time. But hey, if they feel that the religion was what made their lives better, rather than their own free will, thats their decision. At least they are happy I suppose.
I would agree that most people aren't that happy in high school, and that part of it was figuring out who I was. But I used own free will to chose the thing that made me happy, and that was my religion. And I would argue that I had the strength within myself, but that my religion was what showed me that I had that strengh. If anything it gives me more free will, not less.
BYU would be down with Buffalo and EMU, on my list of schools to attend.
What a stupid rule. Like it's any of the school's business what that kid does in his bedroom.
I say this in full understanding of the code of conduct, religious affiliation, etc. that BYU has.
It's just none of their business.
Likewise, it helps a ton with recruits that are very strong Mormons. I'm guessing Fredette wouldn't have considered a place way out in Utah if he didn't think that they had something special to offer.
Everyone's so busy having a religious debate it looks like nobody noticed that they got smoked tonight by new mexico.
New Mexico had beaten BYU three times in a row before this, so while they would have had a better shot at winning with Davies, The Cougars still were in for a tough game. Totally wrong team for them to play at this juncture style-wise.
Mormonism isn't a real religion.
Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb
Eh, I mean, that's BYU. They're serious. It is... I mean, it is what it is. No point into getting into a discussion on the merits of that... umm... that set of thoughts.
Dear potential recruits: they're serious.
here is a campus i could live with. suddenly Northwestern is my second favorite big10 school.
Point 1: BYU's policy is, for the most part, rather ridiculous.
Point 2: Most religions have some beliefs that when looked at from outside the religion, look pretty ridiculous
Point 3: This country was built upon the right for people to believe ridiculous things freely and without persecution.
Point 4: The country was also built upon people's rights to say how ridiculous other people seem for believing what they do.
Point 5: This isn't some random hypocritical application of an ridiculous rule. This ridiculous rule has been widely known about and applied before. So if you know about the ridiculous rule, either don't break it or don't go to BYU
Point 6: Personally, I wouldn't go to any university that applied draconian rules to my personal life. But that is my choice. When this kid signed on with BYU, he gave them permission to be in his bedroom telling him what he can and can't do. That was obviously a mistake. Maybe next time in his life he will make a better choice.
Transfer to Michigan. I would be okay for a player who likes to have sex with women.