BYU only cares about critics if they're Mormon.
OT: BYU's Davies reportedly kicked off team for having sexual relations
All over ESPN. Every student signs an Honor Code which premarital sex is forbidden. There are many schools he couldve chose but he decided to submit to this code--by signing. So before we break out verses from "Our Bodies and Ourselves" and claim 1969 blasphemy let BYU write their own rules. Nothing to burn your bra over.
Same reason Harvey Unga was kicked off the football team (and out of school) along with his girlfriend (iirc, also a BYU athlete) last summer.
"Joe Prospect, we really want you to play here at BYU. Not only will you be expected not to smoke put, but you can't drink alcohol or even coffee. And if we catch you getting laid, we will kick you out of school. Are you ready to sign the papers?"
Don't forget about Tea! That will get you kicked out as well.
It just better camomile, by golly.
BYU generally pitches education, fan base, and alumni network. There's also the fact that its the Mormon Harvard and recruiting is generally not that tough for them.
I find it odd that premarital sex is forbidden, but polygamy is ok? I truly am ignorant when it comes to this so if I'm completely off base, please explain...
Polygamy was outlawed in the Utah Constitution when Utah became a state. It was a Federal requirement of attaining statehood. Some sects still practice polygamy in isolated areas of the state, which isn't terribly hard to get away with given how rugged the terrain is out there and the state government's habit of turning a blind eye to the issue.
Given the "They're forcing mothers away from their children!" outcry that happens every time the government tries to enforce the law theres a good reason for said blind eye. Personally, I think they should just make everyone from the polygamist colonies ineligible for welfare(the other wives in a polygamist family tend to be single in the eyes of the state and welfare fraud is rampant). That would help curb the practice without the TV images that accompany raids.
So, in other words, we should punish the children of polygamists for being poor.
I've known a few and they certainly aren't poor. The thing you need to understand about these sects that support and ecourage polygamy is they help their own. If, in fact, you are poor the rest of the community comes together and supports you because they believe what you're doing is right. Now, as far as taxes are concerned it's really not hard to get welfare when you have a ton of kids and your wife (or wives) don't work - you get a 15 person writeoff so as far as the feds (or the state for that matter) are concerned you're broke but in all actuality you're doing fine. You're not living like Donald Trump or anything but from all the Mormons I've talked to the rest of the mormon community comes to the aid of those who are young and don't have to money to support the massive number of children they are having and when you aren't paying for clothing or food and you don't lavish your kids with gifts children aren't that monetarily expensive.
Read the argument I was making. Welfare fraud is rampant because household income is misrepresented. The children aren't punished because they're living above what the state says they are. This is just one possible way to address the practice.
Through college without any action then maybe you deserve all the action you can handle when youre married.
Polygamy isn't officially sanctioned by the LDS (anymore, at least), but Mormonism has several fringe offshoots and movements that still support polygamy. Basically, people that aren't happy with the fact that the LDS doesn't still condone polygamy leave and start their own branches of the faith.
Polygamy was outlawed by the lds over a century ago. It still continues in extremely small (and unaffiliated with the church of LDS) sects of "traditional" mormons, although the church of LDS has denounced them and like i said is unaffiliated. I cant quite remember, but i believe the percentage of polygamist mormons works out to less than 1%
As many have posted already, the LDS church outlawed polygamy as a condition of Utah's statehood (Utah joined the Union in 1896). Polygamy is prosecuted and rooted out by the authorities in Utah, so most polygamist communities exist outside of Utah, notably in northern Arizona along the Utah border (Colorado City, Arizona has quite a few). My aunt and uncle live in Utah so I'm a frequent visitor and I have seen a few polygamist families, but mainstream Mormons look down upon polygamy, and I believe that if a member of the LDS church is caugh practicing polygamy they are expelled from the church.
If that's how they run their school and the students sign off on it, I guess it's OK. Still, that would be tough if you were a student there. Best of luck to Mr. Davies.
Vince Biegel, I hope you're reading this...
That was my thought at first, but then I looked it up and he is a Mormon. So as long as he is faithful to his religion, I doubt it will affect his decision all that much.
Knowing many Mormons throughout my life and having several good friends out here of that faith most will admit that they have slipped up a few times in their life. College is as likely as a time as ever to slip up. Also one of my friends out here that went to BYU has said that there's a decent sized sect of the BYU population that is wild and gets away with quite a bit. I wonder if upperclassmen hosts during recruiting trips tell recruits that they can get away with certain things on campus?
i guess you can't go "all the way tonight" when you go to BYU. Yeesh. Blue balls is NOT my sport of choice
Is it safe to assume that big upcoming CFB story won't be about their misuse of recruiting hostesses?
to make a "seed" joke about BYU in the tourney, but I think any that I might make would be in incredibly poor taste.
... aaaand now I'm thinking about how to incorporate "taste" into that joke. Ahg!
Duke has good teams, but most of their players never are "stars" in the NBA, count Grant, Christian and Jason Williams aside...
Coach K has always emphasized team players versus stars when recruiting--his strategy works.
I just don't buy the #3, 2, 1 unless it's been held for months, and even then, when March Madness cones around, said school will lose to lower seeds...we all remember back in the early 90's when The Orangemen were ranked very high and lost to the Richmond Spiders.
I just don't buy the ranking, as to me, it really comes down to Conference and strength of schedule. Generally speaking, the ACC is the hardest Conference in terms of b-ball...
Now, I don't know what BYU's schedule looked like so, I cannot say that they have a harder or easier schedule.
Most importantly I can't wait till tourney time.
Shouldn't have enrolled at BYU when their honor code has been known for how many decades now? Seems to work for everyone else that attends.
to Michigan. BYU loses a big man for allegedly having sex? Beyond a quick byline, this is silly and not newsworthy. Go Blue
OT = Off-Topic. Pro Tip: Don't jump on people until you know more about how the board works.
Damn man, what is it these past few days? Michigan is "top 25 in a good year" and (paraphrasing) "OT threads are OT."
Neg-bombs have been useless for weeks now. We have no defense against trolls and I think they're starting to figure it out. Also we're approaching Selection Sunday and ambient interest in athletics from idiots and non-idiots alike is bound to increase.
ARRRRGH. This is just frustrating.
Remember when Rush Limbaugh was on the board and we negged him into the -500 range before he got banned? I miss those days. We need our godlike powers back, damn it!
That's 17 kinds of awesome.
I don't remember it either, but that is pretty awesome.
We need the decency back, and it seems like it was the negs keeping it that way before.
Bingo. Thank you. End of discussion.
So I presume you also think the Honor Codes at all five service academies are draconian as well? I know of people expelled from the Naval Academy for literally the same thing.
I think it's become abundantly clear that his problem doesn't lie with BYU's honor code, but with the moral code of organized religion.
I think you know that hasn't been lost on me. Just pointing out the similarities without the organized religion stigma attached.
Edit- Damn, didn't catch your subject line.
As a PS to this all, I'm not a religious person; these values aren't mine to say the least. But I want to go to a school that embodies my values, just like I don't want to take that away from someone who has values that are different than mine. He has these values, let him live with them the same way you want to be left to live with your values.
I'm a Christian so I guess I'm predisposed to being sympathetic to BYU in this case for upholding what they believe in, but I don't agree with all of the aspects of their honor code to say the very least. I'm all for letting them practice what they want, as long as it's legal, of course. I don't care how BYU chooses to practice their faith, and I don't think anyone else should care how I practice mine, as long as I'm not infringing on their rights. I don't think BYU infinged on anyone's rights in this case.
It was a very apt comparison btw.
No reply, other than to say I agree completely.
I'm just upset that people are prosthelytizing on why BYU is so horribly draconian, convoluted, and morally reprehensible in this case. It's frustrating.
Stay strong, man.
Especially since it wasn't as much of a debate as it was a flame war. The arguments were pretty ridiculous, but I think you (and every other one of the regular posters) handled it pretty well, considering.
Butt-slaps all around!
You handled it well yourself. I tried not to devolve into name-calling, and truth be told, life's a lot harder when you try to portray yourself in a certain way without falling into behaviors that cause others to look negatively on how you conduct yourself. I know I'm far from perfect and I never live up to the moral standards that I should, but I feel pretty good about how the posters (myself included) have handled this case.
Agreed. I'd say the good guys won tonight.
Yes I agree. I suggest we pass a new board rule:
From now on, no opinions! Even on off topic posts on controversial issues. Cause someone might get, like, upset. And that's no fun.
It is funny you should mention that as you try to tell BYU how to run their school and all Mormons to stop "forcing" their religion on their kids. I am guessing it is their opinion that you are a closed minded idiot.
I thought it was pretty clear that I was being sarcastic. I guess not.
So, here's a last-post-on-the-issue summary:
Unlike all the good people of the world, I think:
a) this kid's situation is terribly unfair and the arcane rules that BYU and the Mormon church impose on young people are not my cup of tea.
b) on a message board off topic post, posters should be allowed to express their opinions.
The end. Gold stars for everybody!
Pretty sure under US law you can't restrict reproductive rights with respect to a government action, at least for adults.
And he was kicked off the basketball team, not out of school, right? What moral code is that? The NCAA should adopt a rule that any school participating in a sanctioned league shall not be allowed to ban a student for otherwise legal sex.
Agreed. Also, they should just stop all schools from disciplining students for doing otherwise legal things. Then, the kids can do whatever the fuck they want as long as they don't get arrested and not think twice about it. The NCAA should definitely have looked into Izzo kicking Allen and Lucious off the team. He should have been forced to keep them on the team unless they did something illegal.