OT: Broncos a contender?
Skip Bayless is probably still crying tears of joy after that 80 yard TD pass in overtime vs the Steelers. Tebow threw 2 td passes and for over 300 yards (80 on one play). Was it the Tim Tebow magic or the Steelers injuries that decided this game? I can't imagine the Broncos keeping up with the Patriots, but the Patriots defense just may be THAT bad to let it happen.
January 8th, 2012 at 9:03 PM ^
man, I really want to dislike Tebow, but I can't. He is so damn clutch. I just wish he wasn't so in your face with his Christian views.
January 8th, 2012 at 9:44 PM ^
I mean I'd be pretty in-you-face with Christian beliefs if God was allowing me to quarterback and NFL football team and actually win games I have no business winning.
January 8th, 2012 at 9:47 PM ^
I cannot believe you got postive votes for this comment. Such a bigoted thing to say and people here up vote you...
January 8th, 2012 at 9:52 PM ^
How is it bigoted to say "I wish he wasn't so in my face about his religion"
That's not a comment on his religion at all, it's a comment on his behavior
January 9th, 2012 at 4:25 AM ^
I wish people would stop acting so gay in public...
according to you this statement is fine, right?
January 9th, 2012 at 5:56 AM ^
"I wish people would stop acting so gay in public..."
Not even the same thing, One is a comment on Tebow's behavior and that weak attempt is a comment one's sexual preference, which is not a behavior. I am going to stop right here because I have a feeling we are going to into a innate trait vs. choice argument.
January 9th, 2012 at 12:10 PM ^
Yes, sexual preference is a behavior. Pretty much anything done by a human being is a behavior. The difference here is that Tebow is obnoxious about his professions. Gay people, as a "people," are not. Certain individuals, perhaps. Not the entire group.
There will always be a level of expression deemed appropriate on a public level.
Discussion closed.
January 9th, 2012 at 12:21 PM ^
Translation... my opinion is the correct opinion, and if you don't agree with my opinion you aren't entitled to have your opinion. Very classy.
Since we are talking behavior, what behaviors make Tebow obnoxious in the way that he makes his professions?
January 12th, 2012 at 12:09 PM ^
Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know what I said would cause you or others to cease thinking.
Mostly the way he uses his position to promote his religion. The especially public promotion of his religion. Nobody is trying to watch Pat Roberts when they turn on the Broncos game. I'm not keen on especially public homosexuality, either. Or especially public heterosexuality. Or especially public sexuality in general, come to think of it.
And it returns to what I was saying before. There will always be a degree of public behavior deemed socially permissible.
January 9th, 2012 at 8:42 PM ^
Well that post goes against every peer reviewed article on human homosexuality. Sexual preference is a settled in the womb, not by choice despite the delusion of ignorant Christians who think they can change homosexuals.
DIscussion closed.
January 10th, 2012 at 12:02 AM ^
that you do not believe you are a bigot.
January 10th, 2012 at 12:37 PM ^
January 11th, 2012 at 10:56 PM ^
Bigot-one who regards or treats the members of a group with hatred or intolerance (Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary)
Bigotry-intolerance towards those who hold different opinions than oneself (google.com)
It is clear by your word choices that you are intolerant of "Evangelical Christians" thereby making you a bigot. You can be amazed that i called you a bigot all you want, I don't know what kind of wonderful activities you have on your resume, nor do I care. You have clearly displayed a dislike for a group of people which screams bigotry. That is all the evidence I need. I didn't even have to take your post out of context to draw that conclusion.
January 14th, 2012 at 11:01 PM ^
I never said I had anything wrong with evangelicals or Christians (my entire family is a mix of Catholic and episcopalian.
And the same message can spouted off at evangelical christians who preach love and preach and then calling anyone not sharing their beliefs a bigot or anyone in the GLBT community a f*ggot. The reason I hold so little respect for evangelical Chrisitians was when a group of pious individuals called one of my friends (transgender) a f*ckign f*ggot who is going to hell.
January 12th, 2012 at 12:04 PM ^
Behavior does not equal choice. You are fundamentally misconceiving what I am saying.
But brains behave and therefore sexual preference is a subset of human behavior. This is not difficult.
January 14th, 2012 at 11:04 PM ^
I agree from a basic information processing point of view. However, there are certain preferences for which decisions we will make which are innate. Sexual preference is innate and cannot be changed.
January 9th, 2012 at 8:48 AM ^
I'm going to stop replying because we've been very close to the politics border in this discussion, but c'mon man. There is nothing fine with your statement. What is "Acting gay?" I never said I had a problem with Tebow "being" Christian. I don't want to me Evangelized, or Missionized. That's all.
January 8th, 2012 at 10:27 PM ^
How is it bigoted? Please tell me? If you know me in person you would know I am perhaps one of the most accepting person when it comes to diversity of religion, gender, race, and sexual preference. But yeah lets throw out a random bigot claim. Wow....just...wow...
I personally believe one's religious beliefs should be private. I don't want to be evangelized when I watch Monday Night Football. If I did then I would watch the 700 Club with Pat Robertson.
I respect the hell out of the medical work the Tebows has done in Africa and it makes him a great person.
January 8th, 2012 at 10:29 PM ^
"I don't want to be evangelized when I watch Monday Night Football."
I'm going to use that line.
January 9th, 2012 at 4:24 AM ^
True colors coming through. Keep it up.
January 8th, 2012 at 10:44 PM ^
Here's the deal: Everyone should have the right to speak their religion, from Christian, Muslim, Jewish, whatever. The free market of religious expression should not be stopped. We should embrace the expression. Why? Because we are born free men to choose.
I don't fear religious expression by anyone, including some pagan voodoo person. I do fear stopping anyone's ability to profess their faith.
January 8th, 2012 at 10:57 PM ^
then the inverse must also be true. if I don't want to hear about your religion, I'll ignore you. everyone can have the right to express themselves, everyone has the right to not listen.
/just saying. let's keep this civil. this is not meant as a personal attack at all.
January 8th, 2012 at 11:04 PM ^
Exactly. Tebow has the right to express his views and I have the right ignore them. We live in a great country.
January 9th, 2012 at 4:22 AM ^
I wish gays would stop being so in your face about it.
I wish blacks would stop being so in your face about it.
I wish muslims would stop being so in your face about it.
I wish hispanics would stop being so in your face about it.
According to you saying these things is perfectly fine as well. It is bigoted whether or not you and your buddies think it is or not.
January 9th, 2012 at 4:50 AM ^
All of those attributes (except being a Muslim, although many would ascribe to being from a Muslim family) are not choices, they're attributes. Nobody 'chooses' to stop being gay or black or Hispanic without some form of absolute denial about their hereditary and genetic identity. Nobody is 'born' a Christian.
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<br>A more effective comparison would be 'I wish Republicans/Democrats, Ohio State fans, Beliebers, and Snooki weren't so in my face about it.'
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January 9th, 2012 at 4:52 AM ^
Annnd my first sentence was a real winner. Of COURSE attributes are attributes!
January 9th, 2012 at 9:22 AM ^
Michael Jackson says otherwise about the choice of white or black.*
With that said I miss that guy, got a little weird at the end of his life but the music speaks for his awesomeness.
*I know he had a skin condition to start with and thats why he did it.
January 9th, 2012 at 5:48 AM ^
You are not that bright are you?
You just took my original post and turned it around it around into a strawman fallacy. Nice try. I didn't mean any of that and you know it. I am not going to reply to you again because frankly people with attitudes like yours are not worth it. Have a great day and go blue.
January 9th, 2012 at 2:17 AM ^
Speaking of in your face...
NYC NYC NYC NYC
January 9th, 2012 at 10:23 AM ^
Agree completely. Tebow has a right, according to the First Amendment, to express what he believes. If people don't agree with what he says, then that's fine, they don't have to.
January 8th, 2012 at 11:21 PM ^
may not have been the right word to use.
but to dislike someone, and no one can deny that there are people that do not like Tebow because of his openess about his faith is like being a bigot.
that is fine of you personally think a person's religion should be kept private, but it really does not matter what your personal opinion is on how a person should handle their faith.
January 8th, 2012 at 10:38 PM ^
Honestly, I thought the comment was pretty tame. And to be fair, it isn't so much Tebow who throws his faith in people's faces (I mean, yeah he does that kneel thing and talks up his faith a bit in interviews, but nothing egregious), but all of the talking heads and hanger-ons who harp about it ad nauseum.
The brilliance of this country is that both Tebow and the OP are allowed to make comments about religion and its existence/prevalance in various mediums without fear of reprisals or condemnation.
January 9th, 2012 at 3:09 AM ^
It sucks that instead of being able to enjoy seeing a guy massively overachieve expectations, the whole Tebow story has devolved into Team Red v. Team Blue political nonsense.
January 9th, 2012 at 11:06 AM ^
I don't see that being the conversation - I see that being a sidenote.
January 10th, 2012 at 12:51 AM ^
I was referring to the national conversation as much as the one on this thread.
January 8th, 2012 at 9:50 PM ^
I'm not Christian, and I found this article very interesting: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7369021/fair-game
A snippet:
Let us be quite clear — Tim Tebow adheres to a particular form of American Protestantism. He belongs to — and proselytizes for — a splinter of a splinter, no more or less than Mitt Romney once did. This particular splinter has a long record in America of fostering anti-Enlightenment thought, retrograde social policies, and, more discreetly, religious bigotry. To call Tim Tebow a "Christian," and to leave it at that — as though there were one definition of what a "Christian" is — is to say nothing and everything at once. Roman Catholics are Christians. So are Lutherans, Episcopalians, Melkites, Maronites, and members of the Greek and Russian Orthodox faiths. You can see how insidious this is when discussion turns to the missionary work that Tebow's family has done in the Philippines. This is from the Five Priorities of the Bob Tebow ministries, regarding its work overseas:
It is the goal of the Bob Tebow Evangelistic Association to preach the gospel to every person who has never had an opportunity to hear the good news of eternal life in Jesus Christ. Most of the world's population has never once had the opportunity to hear the only true message of forgiveness of sins by faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone.
It so happens that 95 percent of the population of the Philippines is Roman Catholic. Catholic doctrine just happens to be in conflict with what Bob Tebow and his son preach in regard to personal salvation.
January 8th, 2012 at 10:46 PM ^
I'm a Christian and I completely agree with the article (If I read it again, I'm sure I could nitpick something), but the general idea is correct. Props to Tebow for being confidenct about his faith, but I personally am not the same "type of Christian." Tebow and his family and very comfortable being public with their faith and probably have no problem talking to a stranger on the street about God. That is not my style. I don't evangelize until I get to know somebody because, well, I feel it's more likely to have an impact on them and we would gain a better understanding of each other. I'm not one for judging (ya know, don't judge lest you be judged and all), but I'm also a man and total depravity of mankind means I'm a POS and can't do anything about it, so I'll go ahead and say this. I think Tebow is doing more harm than good for Christianity. When "Tebowing" became a thing, he should have stopped doing it. His praying suddenly became more about him rather than about God. Not his fault, but that's how it goes. Contrary to some beliefs, you can talk to God without bowing your head and closing your eyes. He is all-powerful, so I think he can still hear you. I don't have a problem with people criticizing him and his faith because people criticize everything about everybody. The Bible says that Christians will be persecuted. And if this is the hardest persecution he ever faces, he doesn't really have any problems.
I will make a statement about the Phil. being 95% Chrisitian. I was in Guatemala this past January, and it is a predominantly Catholic country (like all of Latin America) but many I talked to there were non-practicing religious individuals. If you asked them if they were Christian, they'd say yes, but they didn't ascribe to many of the beliefs of their professed faith and didn't practice. I've never been to the Phillippines, so I can't say what it's like, but just like the article pointed out, there are many types of Christians. Some practicing, some not. So evangelism can still be done in that country, and in a big way I'm sure. Just like every country. But I will also say that my biggest pet-peeve about the church body is that there are too many groups. For example, people seem to be more about being Baptist than they are about being a Christian - holding onto their denomination over everything. There are a few fundamental beliefs that are hard to debate, the rest is just conjecture for the most part.
Everything above is JMO, and I'm sure some Christians and non-Christians will disagree with me. But I was just giving my perspective. Mods, understand if this will be deleted, as lengthy discussions about religion probably aren't preferred board topics.
January 8th, 2012 at 10:50 PM ^
stand on this issue?
January 9th, 2012 at 4:31 AM ^
If he doesn't live out his faith he'll be criticized for hypocrisy. If he does you bash him for being die hard about it. He could not win with you merely because he is a Christian.
January 9th, 2012 at 11:37 AM ^
No. If he wants to "spread the faith" while on a mission trip or something like that, he has every right to because he's there to talk religion. If he's on National TV, he needs to keep it to himself. He's not there because of what he does/does not believe, he's there to play and talk football.
Religion is like a penis. It's fine to have one. It's fine to be proud of it. But don't whip it out in public and try to shove it down my throat.
January 9th, 2012 at 10:27 AM ^
The media is in your face about it. Hard to believe so many people on this board are against Tebowing when in reality Tebow copied it from Denard (okay, maybe not but you get the point; both of them publically display their faith with on-field gestures).
As for the Broncos contending - if Tebow beats Tom Brady I will be distraught. That just cannot happen. Our boy Brady, one of the greatest QB's in NFL history, cannot lose to a shotputter, even a shotputter guided by destiny.
January 8th, 2012 at 9:04 PM ^
Meh... I'm a Tebow fan... but winning this game doesn't make them a contender. They're not in the same class as the Packers or Saints.
January 8th, 2012 at 9:04 PM ^
The Broncos stink. No way they come within 2 score of the Patriots. The Steelers had half of their defense injured in that game.
January 8th, 2012 at 9:06 PM ^
January 8th, 2012 at 9:08 PM ^
I feel like Denver pulled out all the stops on this one and it will be difficult to replicate. However, I have been wrong many, many times before.
The dude wins games. Can't count him out if Jesus is on his side. It's like Angels in the Outfield.
January 8th, 2012 at 9:15 PM ^
....but you apparently cannot deny the man's psychological impact on the team, ability and statistics notwithstanding for a moment.
The Broncos D is not bad, but the Patriots D is better than theirs.
January 8th, 2012 at 9:25 PM ^
The Broncos D is not bad, but the Patriots D is better than theirs
The Pats' defense is awful. Just awful. Hard to believe the Broncos' D is worse.
January 8th, 2012 at 9:31 PM ^
yea I'm wondering if he said that right.... Broncos D is actually decent and Pats D is, well as you said, AWFUL
January 8th, 2012 at 10:18 PM ^
I have a question for the football expert...
If the Broncos D is so much better than the Pat's D.. why did the Broncos D give up ~50 more points over the season?
January 8th, 2012 at 10:40 PM ^
why did New England allow 850 more yards than Denver? EIGHT HUNDRED and FIFTY YARDS.
As far as points, that stat actually does kind of surprise me. But I guess when Denver played GB,DET, and NE they all went crazy on them. NE didn't really play a great offense like GB, DET, or NO
Do you really belive NE has a better D than Denver?