OT: Brian Kelly Just Playing With ND?
I have a hunch that Brian Kelly is just playing with the Irish about their open HC position. A few reasons:
1. Note the wording of his tweet:
"Just informed our team that Notre Dame has contacted me and I will listen to what they have to say."
Gives him room to say later that he wasn't really interested, and that his heart is really with the Bearcats. Great motivation for his team's Sugar Bowl practices.
2. With Clausen and Tate leaving, ND is looking at 2-3 years of rebuilding. Again.
3. Kelly can see what the ND HC position has been recently: a ticket to eventual obscurity. Their non-aligned status doesn't fit in the BCS era.
4. He knows he has a good QB following Tony Pike. Cinci figures to challenge for the Big East title again next year and another possible BCS berth.
5. He has a chance to beat the Chosen One (Tebow) and the Arrogant Asshole (Meyer) in the Sugar Bowl. Why would you want to leave when you have the chance to do that? Even if he comes up short, it's a great chance to be on the big stage and try to pick off the reigning national champion.
6. Kelly will likely have a choice for a better position next year.
Bottom line, I think he wants to be first in line for the interview, and I bet before the week is out he will tell them "no thanks." It could happen as soon as tomorrow.
That will be great for two reasons:
1. Michigan won't have to face a Brian Kelly coached team each year.
2. It will absolutely crush the Irish faithful. Kelly says no, Stoops and Harbaugh are out, and Gruden has a great gig for now. They will scramble, and have to go for a Butch Davis or a real Hail Mary, such as Randy Edsall.
Notre Dame searching for a Head Coach is great to watch: they are a desperate buyer and they don't know it.
December 8th, 2009 at 8:15 AM ^
Urban Meyer redux.
December 8th, 2009 at 8:19 AM ^
I think Brian Kelly will take the ND job.
2) Notre Dame doesn't necessarily have 2-3 years of rebuilding to do. Dayne Crist is a very good quarterback, provided that he recovers from his knee injury in a fair amount of time. He'll also have Michael Floyd, Kyle Rudolph, Armando Allen, and some other top-flight recruits that Weis pulled in over the past couple years.
3) Notre Dame fits fine with its non-aligned status. They play some decent teams regularly. Sure, they have some patsies on their schedule, but everybody does. We played a couple MAC schools and DSU this year.
6) What "better choice" will Kelly have next year? Do you have some inside information that Urban Meyer, Pete Carroll, Mack Brown, or Bob Stoops is retiring after 2010? There aren't many "better" jobs than Notre Dame.
Kelly went 13-0 this year with Cincinnati and couldn't get to the MNC game. That has to be frustrating. If you go undefeated at Notre Dame, you're most likely in the MNC game just because of the name "Notre Dame."
Besides that, Kelly has a better track record than the other coaches who have followed Lou Holtz. He's taken a couple mediocre teams and put them on the track to success and, in Cincinnati's case, in BCS bowls.
December 8th, 2009 at 8:30 AM ^
any coach have to worry about major attrition happening, especially when its going to a completely different offense thats going to be brought in??? the talent is there now, but that could change in a hurry if kids don't want to play in the spread...
December 8th, 2009 at 8:30 AM ^
but it could easily be that Kelly is looking to get a new contract at Cincy, by openly stating mutual interest in ND. If he really wanted the ND job, he wouldn't bring attention to it in this way (it's absolutely not classy).
I guess we'll see how serious Cincinnati is for building a football program.
It's probably not too different from Schiano turning down Michigan to stay where he likes the job and where he will never be fired.
December 8th, 2009 at 8:50 AM ^
Cincy increased his pay a million dollars, increased their stadium 30,000 seats and finished the indoor practice facility they are building he still would leave.
December 8th, 2009 at 11:03 AM ^
They are in the Big East...and remember, VT and Miami (YTM) went to the MNC as members of the Big East. If WV hadn't lost to Pitt a few years back, they would have been in the MNC. Let's look at the Big East:
Cincinatti - Could become a national power with Kelly as coach.
Connecticut - Not awful
Louisville - Has seen success in the recent past, could see it again.
Pittsburgh - Team that seems to be going in the right direction.
Rutgers - Team that has found success with Schiano
South Florida - Team that has found success (and quickly) with Leavitt
Syracuse - Recent basement dweller with a big upside.
West Virginia - Recent national contender. (Perhaps on the slide.)
Ok, so there is no current dominant power in this conference, but that doesn't mean that Pitt, Rutgers, USF or someone else won't step up. Plus there are teams like Rutgers, WVU, and USF with the potential to be involved in a Big East championship discussion at the beginning of the season. (Think like Iowa, Wisc, Purdue as Big 10 analogs.) Also, it gives Cincy the chance to DOMINATE the Big East, which wouldn't be that bad (think USC and the Pac10). It DOES mean that he should try to schedule a national power with some regularity (OSU seems to be a natural fit) to provide added credibility to a season. Beat Florida in the Sugar Bowl (especially in a blowout) and all of a sudden there is instant respect for the Bearcats. (And guess how many of us "crackpots" will come out of the woodwork saying that we called for this to happen and it just goes to show again how broken the BCS really is...Incidentally, I'll call it now, Cincy over Florida by 10--contingent on Kelly staying with the team.)
December 8th, 2009 at 1:11 PM ^
I agree whole-heartedly with everything above. One supplement:
It DOES mean that he should try to schedule a national power with some regularity (OSU seems to be a natural fit)UC is scheduled to play OSU in 2013. As you could imagine, the major roadblock to playing an annual home-and-home as been them, not UC as they have been pushing for this for quite some time. Same reasons that Pitt and PSU don't play each year ... one team doesn't want to give up a home game or play another tough in-state non-con.
December 8th, 2009 at 8:21 AM ^
He is basically Charlie Weis, minus a butt...An offensive minded coach who's teams don't play defense. I'm not saying that BK isn't a good coach, because he is, I just don't understand why people think he's the coach to end all coaches.
December 8th, 2009 at 9:14 AM ^
He is not swooning over Kelly. Figures the whole Roman Catholic thing is not being emphasized enough. Says Kelly is like Weis, but without the NFL resume,,,,,meaning no defense.
December 8th, 2009 at 10:38 AM ^
Says Kelly is like Weis, but without the NFL resume,,,,,meaning no defense.
Except that Kelly has a resume as a collegiate head coach, which Weis didn't have when he was hired. And Kelly is a WINNING college head coach, unlike the great white fail.
Not wanting Kelly for any number of reasons is fine I guess, but analogizing him to Weis is absurd. Kelly has already established himself as a successful head coach. Weis hadn't done that before he got to Notre Dame, and he certainly didn't do it while he was there.
December 8th, 2009 at 9:24 AM ^
I think that if you look at recruiting rankings, Cincinnati was at least as talent-deficient relative to the Big East when Kelly took over as WVU was when Rodriguez took over there, and Kelly has arguably had even more success - I don't think WVU ever went undefeated.
Admittedly, we know that transitions can be rough no matter how good a track record the coach has. I think that the difference between Weis's system and Kelly's is a whoooole lot less than the difference between Carr's and Rodriguez's, though.
December 8th, 2009 at 9:21 AM ^
ummm...isn't that what people said about RichRod? Don't get me wrong I like RR and I think he will build a great program here, but he is an offensive coach who's teams don't play defense (see this season). I think that you can't just make broad generalizations that b/c a head coach leans one way or the other they can't be succesful in all facets of the game. If Brian Kelley goes to ND and hires a good defensive coordinator, I think it would be a very scary prospect.
December 8th, 2009 at 9:27 AM ^
it was way too much youth and attrition, not to mention the fact that we've had 3 DCs in 3 years. I don't think Kelly has had to deal with anything of that magnitude. Although you bring up some valid points, i'm just not sold on the fact that Kelly will bring ND back to the top.
December 8th, 2009 at 6:30 PM ^
I agree with your reasons, just wanted to bring up the fact that the same statement can and has been made about RR. And i think that ND can attract some better DCs than Cincy can...
I agree that BK may not bring ND back,but I think that he is very similar to RR in many ways and that many of our dreams about what RR can bring to Michigan Kelly could bring to ND. DOn't misunderstand me, I prefer RR to BK for sure and I am definitely a RR supporter, but BK certainly seems to have some promise to bring ND back to national relevance.
This would actually benefit us and our schedule strength, especially because I believe that RR has the more explosive offense and if GERG stays around I think we can develop a great defense...and still beat ND every year.
December 8th, 2009 at 1:39 PM ^
RichRod's last 4 West Virginia ranks in total defense. (We'll throw out the Michigan years so far for a number or reasons)
2007-7!
2006-62
2005-15
2004-36
I agree with your overall sentiment about not making broad generalizations but clearly those West Virginia teams could play some defense. Now for comparison's sake here's Kelly's last four years:
2009-48
2008-31
2007-50
2006-67 (This is CMU so take it FWIW)
And just for poops and giggles here are Weis's last 4 years.
2009-87
2008-39
2007-39
2006-65
I think people forget that some of those West Virginia squads played pretty good defense. Obviously part of that is probably due to the abysmal performance of the past two Michigan defenses.
December 8th, 2009 at 9:32 AM ^
I wouldn't say his teams don't play defense. I could be wrong, but I thought Cinci lost 10 of 11 starters on defense from last year so that why they have struggled at times. But Kelly is a better defensive coach than he gets credit for. His second national championship at Grand Valley was with a freshman qb and they won it because of their defense.
December 8th, 2009 at 9:33 AM ^
I wouldn't say his teams don't play defense. I could be wrong, but I thought Cinci lost 10 of 11 starters on defense from last year so that's why they have struggled at times. But Kelly is a better defensive coach than he gets credit for. His second national championship at Grand Valley was with a freshman qb and they won it because of their defense.
December 8th, 2009 at 9:41 AM ^
I posted this on another thread. Man, internet memes is tenacious!
FYI, Cincinnati was 25th in scoring defense last year. Then they lost a starting DE, DT, 3 CBs, and an OLB to the NFL and plummeted. To 24th. You're just thinking of the UConn, Pitt, and to a lesser extent, Illinois games. BOOM, NCAA.ORG'DI will take the opposite position--I'm not saying BK is a great coach, but nothing about his recent resume suggests that he isn't.
December 8th, 2009 at 8:23 AM ^
Interesting post, and I'd love to see it, but I disagree. I believe you are parsing his words too closely.
I think the frustration of going undefeated at Cincinnati and not even getting to sniff the national title game will motivate him to take the ND job. You mention better opportunities next year, and I agree that ND is not as good of a job as their fans make it out to be, but what better job is coming open next year? (Don't say it...)
Also, even with Clausen and Kelly leaving, the offensive cupboard is still fully stocked at ND. Their QB, Crist, was a huge recruit and I think will be able to step up nicely. They still have Michael Floyd who is an absolute beast, and they can fill the other WR spot with Shaq Evans. Kelly wants to be in the big-time. The Big East is not on par with the other BCS conferences and is becoming a stepping stone to bigger jobs like the MAC or the Mountain West.
Edit: Sorry, by the time I got my thoughts down Magnus had already beaten me to the punch on most of them.
December 8th, 2009 at 8:36 AM ^
keep convincing yourself that Kelly won't be the coach.
December 8th, 2009 at 8:40 AM ^
What can Cincinnati offer Kelly that Notre Dame can't match and beat?
December 8th, 2009 at 8:42 AM ^
The ability to recruit players he wouldn't be able to at ND.
December 8th, 2009 at 9:05 AM ^
The reverse is also true.
December 8th, 2009 at 9:11 AM ^
take the job, he might get job security. but if it takes him a couple of years to get it going there, the alums and fans are going to be trying to run him out of town. at least at cincy he'll never have to worry about that as long as he keeps winning and from the looks of it he has the foundation set to keep having good seasons.
December 8th, 2009 at 10:23 AM ^
Wasn't talking about job security. Frankly, it's totally irrelevant. Any coach that Notre Dame interviews will have more job security in his current job than at Notre Dame. If we think any coach will turn down Notre Dame because of job security fears, the Irish will never, ever hire a coach.
No, I meant the recruiting issue. Sure, you can recruit certain people to Cincy that you can't recruit to ND. It goes in reverse too, though. There's any number of players that wouldn't give Cincy a sniff but would listen when Notre Dame comes calling.
December 8th, 2009 at 10:50 AM ^
and I would think the implications of the former kind of player (a guy that ND probably wouldn't look at for academic reasons or for some baggage or whatever) is probably one of the better things ND has going for it. I don't like ND, but I respect what they do. Their kids seem like good kids for the most part, they graduate at a tidy rate, and the school is still able to compete against top programs for highly regarded recruits. Ultimately I think any coach would prefer this scenario, although some may not want the pressure a job like ND brings.
December 8th, 2009 at 8:43 AM ^
Rutgers over Michigan, but Schiano turned us down.
If Cincy offers similar money, they represent better job security for Kelly.
December 8th, 2009 at 9:21 AM ^
Skyline chili, Montgomery Inn ribs, and Graeter's ice cream.
Hell, now that I think of it, Weis will probably interview for the Cincy job if Kelly leaves.
December 8th, 2009 at 8:41 AM ^
When Rodriguez was hired a lot of Michigan fans said that one good thing was he wasn't a danger to jump to the NFL. I think Kelly wants to end up in the NFL, so even if Notre Dame gets him, they'll only have him until the NFL comes calling.
December 8th, 2009 at 8:59 AM ^
I think for any college head coach to jump to the NFL, he has to win big, very big, probably even take home a national championship. (See Spurrier, Saban, Erickson, Davis, Switzer, etc.)
This thought was brought up on the blog back when Rodriguez was hired. (Yes, there were those concerned with him jumping to the NFL at the time.) The argument was, if Rodriguez even hoped to be offered an NFL job, he would have to completely dominate, ala Spurrier, and probably win a MNC in the process. Is this a risk worth taking? The conclusion here was yes. For ND? Probably.
December 8th, 2009 at 10:54 AM ^
I don't understand where this has come from. Can you provide a link or something because I think that Kelly going to the NFL is all specualtion.
December 8th, 2009 at 8:44 AM ^
That Notre Dame hires Kelly, and as much as it galls me, I hope he's successful there (not wildly so, but still.)
With Michigan tied in to Notre Dame for 25 years, a quality opponent in South Bend is necessary for us to make a claim for national elite status.
December 8th, 2009 at 8:45 AM ^
You could not be more wrong.
As to how successful Kelly might be at ND, we can only guess. You're right that his teams have been characterized more by offensive prowess than defensive awesomeness, but in terms of proven coaching ability as a HC, there's no comparison between Kelly and Weis.
Charlie Weis had never been a head coach at any level before getting the ND job. The football coaching profession at all levels is littered with the corpses of guys who were successful coordinators and mediocre-to-terrible head coaches. Add Weis to the list.
Brian Kelly has been very successful as HC at three different schools. His overall record is 171-57-2, and 53-22 so far in D1A. His only losing season was his first year at CMU where he had to clean up the mess left by Mike Debord.
If you want to discount his record at GVSU because it's not D1A, then you also have to completely discount RR's record at Glenville as being applicable to his own coaching record.
December 8th, 2009 at 9:14 AM ^
Because Kelly obviously is. I am just pointing out the similarity of the style of play both respective coaches bring to the table. It didn't work with Charlie, so why should/would it with BK?
December 8th, 2009 at 9:31 AM ^
I'd guess I'd say because Kelly is a much better head coach than Weis is. I agree that there's no 100% guarantee, but I think coaching ability can make a tremendous difference.
Did you hear the interview BK had with Dan Patrick yesterday? Man, Kelly is one glib SOB. He came off to me as smart as hell, very confident, and quick on his feet. I would think that the ND people would find that appealing, but some people can be put off by that glibness.
One thing is for sure: Mikey Rosenberg would absolutely eat it up. If ND hires Kelly, at some point I expect a Rosenberg article about Kelly that will be embarrassingly rapturous in praise, with a heavy undercurrent of "this is the guy Michigan should have hired."
December 8th, 2009 at 12:50 PM ^
BK would be a great coach for ND.
December 8th, 2009 at 8:50 AM ^
I think it is going to take the right package (read: Stoops/Urban type money and contract length) to cause Brian Kelly to coach Notre Dame. I'm not sure if Notre Dame is ready to make such a commitment to Kelly. I could be wrong though.
December 8th, 2009 at 11:14 AM ^
and everything will be ok. I remember people freaking out about Weis, imagine that.
December 8th, 2009 at 8:57 AM ^
Cincinnati went undefeated in a sorta-BCS conference and they are not playing for the national championship. This would not happen at Notre Dame.
December 8th, 2009 at 10:49 AM ^
This would not happen at Notre Dame.
Is that true? If Notre Dame had gone undefeated this year, would they have leapfrogged Texas? I suppose it would have depended upon their body of work and how good they looked in their wins, but I certainly don't believe that would have been guaranteed. Especially since none of their wins would have been especially impressive (given the subsequent performances of both Michigan and USC). And also given the fact that ND started behind Texas in the polls.
Don't get me wrong - Notre Dame assuredly has a better shot of playing for a MNC year in and year out (assuming that it goes undefeated) than does Cincy, but I'm not convinced that Notre Dame ABSOLUTELY gets a spot in a title game over an undefeated conference champ from the SEC, Big 10, or Big 12.
December 8th, 2009 at 8:58 AM ^
Everyone talks about the job security issue that is at Cincy for him but not at ND but from what I have observed over the years I have followed football is that, behind closed doors, most coaches have huge egos. I really don't think a coach is worried about job security. They want that next challenge around the corner. He has accomplished about all he will at Cincy so why not move on and try for a greater feat. I bet he will probably use his current negotiations with Cincy to increase his offer at ND. He is doing a lot more than just "listening to what they have to say".
December 8th, 2009 at 9:07 AM ^
It will be Kelly to ND. Notice that he doesn't even pretend to deny interest in the ND job (as almost ALL coaches do, even if they clearly ARE interested). He wants the job. Period. The only question remaining is whether or not ND wants him.
December 8th, 2009 at 9:09 AM ^
Cincinnati has been spelt right every time. WOOT!
December 8th, 2009 at 9:09 AM ^
I cannot wait for the ND fanbase to mimic some of the UM fanbase with this quote..
"Yeah, but that was coaching in the Big lEast. You cannot do that here."
December 8th, 2009 at 9:40 AM ^
that ND turned down a bowl game this year. Has that ever happened before? Can ND just give us their bowl game, since they don't want it? We could really use an extra 21 practices and an extra game. Turning down a bowl game means you have so many millions of dollars that a few more don't really matter. If a few million don't matter then ND will pay whatever it takes to get who they want. Maybe they can just call the Vatican and ask them to sell a painting for a couple billion? Maybe they just print their own money...
December 8th, 2009 at 10:04 AM ^
It has happened before. ND skipped the bowl game in 1996. I think they also did it once during Davie or Willingham's tenure, but I might be wrong.
December 8th, 2009 at 12:42 PM ^
There seems to be a misconception that all bowls are financially lucrative for participants. This is not the case. Only the BCS bowls and the best of the non-BCS ones (like Capital One and Cotton) pay enough for the schools to profit. The rest barely cover expenses, if that.
If ND would have actually made out financially from going to a bowl at 6-6, it's a certainty that they would have gone.
December 8th, 2009 at 10:16 AM ^
I have seen a bunch of comments on here that regardless of who the coach is, ND will likely have 1-2 rebuilding years (although not sure what they are rebuilding from, as this year sort of sucked for them). This is a rational comment. Why is it, though, that our fanbase can be so rational when analyzing the situation that Kelly or whoever is hired by ND may face - in a program filled with 4-5 star recruits - but that it can not give RR the same rational benefit of the doubt when he is forced to start walk-ons?
December 8th, 2009 at 10:29 AM ^
I think Kelly stays at Cincy because ND can't afford him. Charlie's buyout is reported at 18M. Let's say Kelly gets 5 yrs at 2M. That means if we spread Charlie's payout over those same 5 years ND is paying out 4M/yr. That's Saban cash. They didn't pony up for Saban last time and I don't think they'll do it this time.
I'm betting on Edsel.
December 8th, 2009 at 1:38 PM ^
“Steve in PA;” I disagree with the money argument; granted I have no substantial evidence to back up my disagreement other than living near the South Bend area and getting a day to day pulse in and around SB, but for all accounts their coffers seem to be deep to an almost endless amount.
I do however like the Edsall call, more so b/c I think he presents the “image” that ND would like to continue portraying more so than some of the baggage that comes with Kelly. In some ways I feel when backed up against the wall Kelly will present the same arrogant and smug personality Weis did. Edsall throughout the turmoil’s @ UConn this past year showed everyone the type of character he has.