OT: Big XII Expansion: Why is UCF more attractive than USF?
On the Audible yesterday, Mandel and Feldman said the Big XII appears to be moving closer toward expansion as a study commissioned by the league indicated a much improved chance of making the CFP if it went to a 12-team league with eight conference games, plus a championship game. When discussing candidates, both listed Cincinnati as the number one candidate, UCF two, BYU three with other schools like UConn, Houston and Boise State mentioned as more longshot candidates.
Both stated that UCF had improved its facilities and had a good tv market, as well as giving the league an outpost in Florida as its best sellign points.
My question is, isn't this also true of USF, which doesn't have it's own stadium, but does play in an NFL stadium? And, hasn't USF demonstrated, better than UCF, that it can sustain itself as at least a competent program? Basically, USF has had a lower ceiling but also a much higher floor.
UCF went from a BCS game to an 0-12 season in two years under the longest serving coach it ever had. USF has now had at least decent success under two different coaches.
What am I missing?
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They're going to Disney World!
The two schools aren't necessarily a package deal for "political" reasons -- as Oklahoma and Oklahoma State are considered to be -- but I'd expect the BXII to add both or neither.
rainingmaize listed some of the obvious reasons. I live in the heart of USF country (for 15 years now) and I think I can count the true USF fans I have met in that time on one hand. No exaggeration. No one gives two shits about USF.
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Why dont they just change the name of the conference to match the "elite" schools they are now considering from Big 12 to......
Lulz! I think I've been to that Big Lots in Zephyrhills, FL! If you look around back you'll find a couple folks huffing spray paint and 3 racoons fighting over chicken bones.
I'd just consider adding UCF, USF, Cinci, and Houston. There's your 14.
I spent 10 years in the Tampa Bay area. I would rather see USF remain a mid-major. They can't compete with the "big three" in Florida for recruits. Watchign them try to play basketball in the Big East was painful.
No matter how they overachieve from time to time, the sad reality for them is that both their football and basketball teams are built with recruits who didn't have serious offers from UF, FSU or YTM.
From FL, IIRC UCF has the largest undergrad enrollment in the nation and continues to grow. Don't know too much about USF, but I think Orlando is a bigger area population wise than Tampa. Is there any word about Houston going to the Big12?
From an eyeballs standpoint, the Big XII doesn't need Houston. It already has large presence in the Houston TV market with Texas, Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech, and Oklahoma, Houston would add very few incremental eyeballs and would be another hungry mouth to feed.
They also don't need Houston to take more high level recruits out of Texas. Much better to move into Florida and Ohio and add some talent to their footprint rather than dilute it.
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and it seems like their football program is a bit more established / stable. USF doesn't have a home stadium and still seems a bit like a two-bit program
UCF students/alums care more about their school than their USF counterparts, based on personal, anecdotal experience. Kind of like Western Michigan compared to Eastern Michigan.
but in your case, it's the floor thing. Don't let it bother you. I made the same mistake when first starting because I would often overlook the fact it had a basement.
But if your statement carries truth; that is has a low ceiling but a high floor, that suggest they start out unrealistically high but have no room t continue an upward spiral.
Have a much higher floor? They're competiing for exactly the same thing. To be the 4th best team in Florida. I would say they're neck and neck for that slot.
But they have the same number of bowl games all time, and have never had the type of winless season UCF had last year. They had two bad years at the end of Skip Holtz, start of Willie Taggart era, but never went winless. You're right that they are in a simialr boat, I'm just curious as to why one is always seen as some sort of sleeping giant/team ready for a conference upgrade and one isn't mentioned that way.
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Outside of Texas there is not much fertile recruiting ground in the Big 12 footprint, so that is why they are moving towards a team in Florida. It would make sense to grab BYU for a regional team, but that doesn't do much for recruiting.
(1) bigger school overall.
(2) has their own stadium. It's not necessarily a nice stadium, but there's something to having your own stadium vs. renting out an NFL facility.
(3) UCF has a proven level of success. Went to a Fiesta Bowl, beat the Big XII Champ.
(4) Brand name. It's not like it's a dramatic difference, but UCF does currently have more cache. Blake Bortles is a UCF football alum. Who is the most famous South Florida football alum? Who is ANY South Florida alum (I seriously can't think of one of the top of my head)?
(5) UCF does have a pretty decent fanbase. The PSU/UCF game in Dublin in August 2014, I was there. UCF brought 10-15K. That's impressive, given the game was (a) immediately following their Fiesta Bowl, which was an expensive trip for their fans, and (b) literally on another continent.
Honestly, I'm just curious as to why there's such a large perception gap between them. The size and BCS win certainly play a part in that.
Pumping out a large amount of alumni every year as the second largest university
School has grown tremendously in the last 10 years with facilities
Rutgers disproves that statement
1) Boot Rutgers,Penn State from the Big 10.
That's it. That is all I got.
Cincy having any legitimacy hurts michigan as much as it helps, its not like michigan never recruits ohio and having another competitor doesn't seem super helpful.
I think big 12 pulls off the suprise and gets fsu. FSU lawyers have been sniffing around the enforcibality of the grant of rights agreement for a reason.
it fits right in with the seriously unstable texas conference then
Each of those moves was simply upgrading to a better conference situation. And UCF was not running around applying. It's that spce opened up in a conference and they invited UCF.
If anything, the fact that UCF has shown the ability to move up in conferences and still be relatively successful says a lot about the potential of the school.
well they have to do something IMO in the next couple years or oklahoma is bailing and even texas will give it up. In other words, i hope they do nothing, rather see those teams in a real conference
Houston and one other ...perhaps SMU
Its all heading to ( 4) 16 team leagues....the conference champonships are quarterfinals followed by CFP.... who will the Big add?
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Texas blew up the B12 with the Longhorn Network and has been screwing every other team for years. Bringing in Houston would be a giant FU from the other schools.