OT: Big Unit, Pedro, Biggio and Smoltz into Baseball HOF
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/12128504/pedro-martinez-randy-johnson…
Nice to see these guys get in. First time 4 guys got in at the same time in 60 years.
Piazza and Bagwell are next on deck.
I think Big Unit might be the last 300 game winner we'll see for a very long time if pitching keeps changing the way it has over the years.
January 6th, 2015 at 5:09 PM ^
Good class. The four most deserving players got in. Hopefully Bagwell, Piazza, and Schilling get in the future.
Mussina is a bit of a snub...maybe Raines as well. But other than those two, seems like a soild job by the voters. Steroid guys should be evaluated seperately. Might take a little while to figure out a proper way to handle that. Im fine with waiting with those7 guys.
January 6th, 2015 at 5:16 PM ^
January 6th, 2015 at 6:17 PM ^
January 6th, 2015 at 5:18 PM ^
January 6th, 2015 at 7:18 PM ^
Trammell was on the ballot and got passed up. Again. Whitaker didn't even hit the threshold to stay on the ballot when he was first eligible.
Really, the fact that they won't vote Tram in is an absolute travesty.
January 6th, 2015 at 10:41 PM ^
I think Trammell and Jack Morris will both get in, but it will be the Veterans Committee that will have to do the deed.
For Whitaker, if Ryne Sandberg can be in, so should Sweet Lou. Their offensive numbers are comparable, which is remarkable since Whitaker spent the majority of his career batting leadoff. And he won three Gold Gloves. I don't know a hell of a lot about advanced metrics, but I hear people throw out WAR. Roberto Alomar's was 67 and Whitaker's was 75. All three of those guys should be in.
January 7th, 2015 at 1:19 AM ^
Yeah, I think it will come eventually through the vets, but I think it's more a function of what the press voters think about a franchise like the Tigers vs. everyone else. These guys won a freaking series. AND had the numbers other HOFers have. And they have to fight tooth and nail to get considered.
January 7th, 2015 at 8:20 AM ^
The voting process for the HoF is really just a big popularity contest. It's a joke.
The fact that Ozzie Smith was a first ballot HoF inductee and Alan Trammell can't even get consideration when he batted 20 points higher, had 300 more RBIs, 160 more HRs, and had a fielding percentage that was essentially equal proves that the Baseball Writers Association just buy into the hype around players.
All quantitative measures indicate the Alan Trammell was every bit as good of a shortstop, if not better, as Ozzie Smith, but Ozzie did backflps on the field and got the fans to elect him to a lot of All-Star teams. It really is a joke.
January 6th, 2015 at 5:26 PM ^
Great class, all super deserving (my dad and I have been debating Biggio since last year, but I think he's a no question HOFer). I'm appalled that the best offensive catcher in history STILL isn't in the HOF despite having zero confirmed links to PEDs, but Piazza's time will come I'm sure.
January 6th, 2015 at 5:30 PM ^
As a Braves fan, thank you very much, Tigers, for John Smoltz. I hope you enjoyed Doyle Alexander.
January 6th, 2015 at 5:35 PM ^
January 6th, 2015 at 5:42 PM ^
I was a teenager when the magical run started in '91 with Sid Bream's magical run to home plate against the Pirates. I loved the "Young Guns" - Glavine, Smoltz, and Steve Avery (who was amazing before an injury tanked his career), then they went and got Greg Maddux a couple years later (THANKS, CUBBIES!). Man, that was a nigh-unstoppable pitching staff.
January 6th, 2015 at 8:03 PM ^
we did enjoy him. Doyle went 9-0 with a 1.53 for the Tigers. Without him, the Tigers don't make the playoffs.
This is how trades are supposed to work--win/win--we get a good guy for this year; you get a good one for down the road. The fact that Smoltz ended up so good was just a bonus for the Braves.
January 6th, 2015 at 5:30 PM ^
NSFW. Big Unit could refer to male genetalia.
Please respect your fellow posters trying to not work at work. You are making their bosses and coworkers and children and girlfriends uncomfortable....
January 6th, 2015 at 5:31 PM ^
It never fails to amaze that some baseball writers refuse to give first ballot votes to 100% no doubt guys like The Big Unit and Pedro. How can you argue against either of those guys being HoFers?
January 6th, 2015 at 6:03 PM ^
Considering the fact that 23 sportswriters left Willie Mays entirely off their ballots when he was elected to the HOF in 1979, it's safe to conclude that there's a more than negligible percentage of the voting writers who are complete fucking morons.
January 6th, 2015 at 5:33 PM ^
Only 25% for Trammell? 6 All Star appearances. 4 Gold Gloves. 3 Silver Sluggers. Career batting average .285. I don't get that at all.
January 6th, 2015 at 6:30 PM ^
and allowing me to vent. IMHO, it's complete nonsense that Tram (and Lou Whitaker, too) will never be voted into the Baseball HOF by the baseball writers. Barely over 25% in this year's vote? F'n ridiculous! This man, without a doubt, was the most complete shortstop of the 80's, did it completely w/o PEDs, should have been the 1987 MVP (an honor that instead wrongly was given to George Bell), and yet, gets ignored by 75% of the writers?
Yeah, I am well aware that this year's ballot was crowded with many well-deserving candidates, including the 4 who got voted in, but clearly Tram, by all statistical measurements out there, ranks higher than the majority of SS's who are already in the HOF. A much better hitter than (and statistically, nearly as good defensively as) Ozzie Smith (who is already in) ; a much better fielder than Derek Jeter (who will undoubtably be a first-ballot HOFer as soon as eligible in 5 years), it should be a no-brainer that he is voted in.
Here's an interesting article from yesterday's Sporting News:
http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/story/2015-01-05/worst-baseball-hall-of-famers-all-time-fame
which singles out 9 less-than-deserving members of The Hall and the 9 players who should replace them, and 2 of those 9 they propose should be in the HOF happen to be Tram and Lou. They were the keystone combo that not only was the heart of that great World Championship Detrot Tigers team, but that also holds the record for the most games played together of any 2B/SS duo in MLB history, a record they attained largely because of the productivity and skills they consistantly displayed, offensively and defensively, from the late 70's thru the early 90's.
ESPN's Outside The Lines was on at 5 pm tonight talking about the HOF vote and what needs to be done to improve the process, It seemed to be the consensus among the 4 who were on OTL discussing needed ballot improvements that Tram is deserving of the HOF.
With just one more year on the ballot, its pretty damn certain Tram won't be voted in, a horrible injustice to a player surely deserving better. I'm hoping that the Veterans Committee quickly corrects the writers and gets it right for both Tram and Sweet Lou.
January 6th, 2015 at 5:37 PM ^
I think it's a bit silly took Biggio 3 times to get in. I think as 3000 hitter / 250 homer guy who was an all-star game staple like every year in the mid-90s, and as much of a class act as he was, he should've been a no-brainer selection the first year he was eligible.
Next year I'd like to see Bagwell make it in. He was one of my favorites growing up, and weird as the looks I got were, I modeled my stance when batting righty from his.
January 6th, 2015 at 5:40 PM ^
Here's the complete ballot and voting courtesy of Baseball Reference - LINK
A few names that will not be on the ballot again...
- Troy Percival
- Carlos Delgado
- Darrin Erstad
- Tony Clark
- Cliff Floyd
- Brian Giles
January 6th, 2015 at 5:41 PM ^
Bummed about Trammel. My all favorite all-time baseball player. Great player, and pure class.
January 6th, 2015 at 5:43 PM ^
And would be in the Hall already had he played for NY or Boston.
January 6th, 2015 at 6:13 PM ^
January 6th, 2015 at 5:42 PM ^
I played ball against Smoltz back in the day, hoops in particular. Of course, I grew up and went onto adult things and he kept playing those silly games.
January 6th, 2015 at 5:55 PM ^
There's too many great players out there who aren't in the HOF. I don't care if they used or not, Bonds and Clemens should be in.
January 6th, 2015 at 6:22 PM ^
I have no problem admitting that there is no denying the immense talent of Bonds and Clemens. Even in the early years when it was apparent there was no enhancing going on, it was obvious those two were great ball players on to great things. But they lied and they embarrased the league and the sport they played. I'm absolutely fine with them never sniffing Cooperstown, but think they actually have a solid chance to get in through the committee system once they're off of the ballot.
Now, on the hypocritical side, I really would've liked to see McGwire make it in. He never flat out lied about it (just refused to answer) and eventually admitted it. But above all that, his home run record year, in my opinion, saved baseball. The sport was dying, and he helped to make it cool again. That on it's own is worth a spot in the Hall.
January 6th, 2015 at 6:27 PM ^
If the steroid era players get in, then Pete Rose should get in. It boggles my mind that people won't put steroid era players into the hall of fame (even with asterisks), but will put in KNOWN bigots and ACTIVE segregationists like Cap Anson... Something is very wrong with that imo.
January 6th, 2015 at 8:02 PM ^
Anson (and dare I say, Cobb) might not get in today. But they likely would because that has nothing to do with their baseball careers--unlike roid users and baseball gamblers. [in the latter regard, see also Shoeless Joe]
January 6th, 2015 at 9:18 PM ^
The argument will always be made about pre-integration ball players not being fit for the hall due them never having to play against black player, or as you said (in reference to a guy who was playing while the civil war was not too far in the past), their staunch racist idealogies. However, as lame as it is to say, we have to accept it was a different time, and not only was it in a way endorsed by the league at the time, it wasn't done maliciously to gain an unfair advantage on the diamond against other current players.
Being black myself, I am completely OK with those guys being in there...though my opinions of them as human beings is much less forgiving.
January 6th, 2015 at 6:12 PM ^
January 6th, 2015 at 6:16 PM ^
All 4 deservd it, and it was fun to see them all in their primes.
Bagwell and Piazza should already be in, and Raines will hopefully get in because being the second-best leadoff hitter during Henderson's era isn't bad at all. I'm ambivalent about Schilling (and I'm a Tigers fan, so no Yankee bad blood), and I guess Trammel will only get in with the writers at this point.
January 6th, 2015 at 6:30 PM ^
Welcome Pedro and Randy into the all time best/worst hair team in the HOF.
Winfield (early career), Ricky, Tony Perez (late), Ozzie, Eddie Murray, Eck, Bruce Sutter, Jim Rice, Rollie Fingers, Robin Yount, Catfish Hunter, Sam Thonpson (ol timer), Pud Galvine (another old timer).
Any other nominees?
January 6th, 2015 at 9:09 PM ^
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