I honestly don't think it's that big of a "miss" for Purdue. Darrell Hazell is a much better option, IMO. Jones was another Hazell just a couple years ago in the MAC. Good hire for Purdue.
OT - B1G Nightmarish Day Continues; Butch Jones rejects Purdue
or maybe we'll poach Dantonio.
signed, the Buffs
Boulder, or West Lafayette, IN?
There actually might be some football coaches who do consider quality of life when making life decisions.
is almost devoid of talent, quality of life might not be that great. I live in Colorado and the bigger issue than Embree's coaching is the almost absolute lack of talent on the team. They are one of the slowest teams I've ever watched. I have no idea why anyone from a BCS conference (and I realize that is probably giving the Big East to much credit) would even consider the job.
Bill Snyder would disagree
CU's willingness to accept JUCO athletes. CU academics are a cut above KSU and it will take 4-5 years of recruiting HS kids to fully rebuild.
Snyder fully agrees on this point.
Bill Snyder thinks CU is one of the better jobs in the country?
Why would he not want the job just because the team now sucks? I'm sure they will suck next year, but it's a process that takes years. Plus, going to a team that's as awful as Colorado means they can't get worse. He could have a first year worse than RR here and people wouldn't be calling for his head.
Except that a coach doesn't have time to go skiing . . . and Boulder is pretty far from most recruiting areas.
Maybe he is a pot head.
its easy enough to be a pothead just about anywhere these days
What about their families? Coaches already work too many hours to spend much time at home.
If I was Butch Jones, I'd rather go to UC-Boulder instead of WL, Indiana. Expectations are super low, and boy, just look at the view!
The diehards think the Buffs run of success from the late 80's to early 2000's means they should be competing for conference championships just about every year.
I'd take the Colorado job over Purdue any day.
It's not an insult to the B10. Colorado is a much better job, considering program potential and quality of life. West Lafayette is a dump. Boulder is a paradise.
Maybe Butch likes the green, funny smelling stuff?
It should be noted that Colorado is sinking a ton of money into their football program. Stadium and football facility upgrades are a selling point for Jones
Second- and third-tier programs in other conferences are sinking lots of money into their football programs while B1G teams hire Tim Beckman and stagnate.
if he will stay at Cincy? I mean, let us be honest...neither of those jobs are great.
True. I wouldn't really consider either of them much of an upgrade.
is that any move out of the Big East into one of the big five conference, to any school, is an upgrade right now. No matter what success they might have on the field, it doesn't look like Cincinnati is going to get picked up by a major conference and whenever the musical-chairs game is finally over and the playoff scheme gets fixed they're likely to be left out in the cold.
but but purdue had DREW BREES!!!
Colorado has fallen off a cliff, but it's still a better program than Purdue.
Here's something from Hammer And Rails - according to this, an agreement in principle was reached between Darrell Hazell and Purdue, with details being worked out. It could still potentially fall apart at this stage if it only in principle, of course, but this would be a great get for them, I think.
I know that there are OSU fans who are/were hoping that Hazell would be able to take over for Meyer when the time came.
When he actually might lose a game, get over stressed, and break his contract with his family? Serenity Now!
Maybe Wisconsin will take a look at Butch Jones now. Wouldn't be a bad hire for them and considering the schools courting him you'd have to think Wisconsin could get him if they wanted to.
Colorado was a great program not so long ago, and has a ton going for it, other than that pesky record. I'd take that job in a heartbeat over Purdue.
Purdue was just too cheap to pay him. Do we need a coaching salary floor or what? They should earmark a portion of the BTN money, force cheap teams like Purdue not to just sit on their cash.
The Big Ten is becoming a league full of former MAC rejects. The big money and big talent of late is HC in a major conference or coordintors in a major conference.
Who was the last MAC hire to work out? (I'm honestly asking...)
The argument isn't that great coaches don't come out of the MAC (Nick Saban, Brian Kelly, and Urban Meyer aren't shabby examples either), but that B1G should be a big enough deal they can poach those talents after they move up a step and prove they can they can build even better programs with the resources of a larger school. We got Hoke after he began to show he could transition his MAC success to even greater success at SDSU. While occassionally you pull and MSU and get a Saban right out of the MAC, B1G schools should be able to be more discerning.
How often do any teams get hired away from other major conference teams? Lane Kiffin went for his dream job at USC. There are NFL rejects that land at good schools (Saban, Carroll, Spurrier, Lane Kiffin, and plenty more) but rarely is it the case that big name hires happen anywhere.
Guys like Jim Harbaugh, Nick Saban, Brady Hoke, Urban Meyer, and Brian Kelly have all climbed the HC ladder but whether it is a coach like that or a big name OC/DC like Bob Stoops, Les Miles, Kevin Sumlin, Dana Holgersen, or Barry Alvarez, the ADs are going to have to spend some money to take a chance. You obviously can't just throw money at the problem, but hiring in the B1G has always seemed to be pretty conservative, except maybe Rich Rodriguez and Urban Meyer.
as the DC before he got to State, which I think only helps the point you're making.
Urban Meyer was one of those worthless MAC guys too. I'm guessing Utah was glad they didn't throw a bunch of money at an established BCS coach.
Gary Pinkel, Glen Mason, maybe Hoeppner but he never had a chance to find out...it doesn't seem like that bad a list to me.
Do you really think Utah was capable of pulling an established BCS coach at the time?
They were forced to make the right hire.
The big schools hire big names because their fanbases expect it. Has anyone ever done a decent study showing how the strategies compare? It's not obvious to me that the BCS-experienced guys have worked out better on average. Staying close to home and looking at Michigan and Ohio because I don't have to waste time looking them up, we have:
direct in-house hire of assistant:
- Moeller (had prior BCS experience though)
A lot of good coaches on all three lists, obviously, but the middle set looks pretty damn good to me.
it may be just about the dumbest way to sort these, but it's clean and quick: here are the records of each group in the game:
- BCS-experience 8-17-1
- minor-conference 37-22-2
- asst. promotion 17-21-2
If you move Moeller into the BCS group it's:
- BCS-experience 11-18-2
- minor-conference 37-22-2
- asst. promotion 14-20-1
It doesn't come out to .500 because I started Michigan's clock with Oosterbaan and OSU's clock with Hayes. If you want to start them both in '51 you can take two wins and a tie out of the asst. promotion lines.
There are lot better ways to study this if I had some time, but here's another quick analysis. Here's a list of all the BCS-level coaches of the last half century with more than 200 wins and how they got to their main schools:
- Bobby Bowden, prior BCS experience
- Bear Bryant, prior BCS experience
- Joe Paterno, in-house promotion
- Frank Beamer, FCS
- Tom Osborne, in-house promotion
- Lou Holtz, prior BCS experience (did he ever even have a first job or is it turtles all the way down?)
- Woody Hayes, minor FBS
- Mack Brown, prior BCS experience
- Bo Schembechler, minor FBS
- Hayden Fry, minor FBS
- Jim Tressel, FCS
- Steve Spurrier, prior BCS experience
- Don Nehlen, MAC by way of Mich DC, not sure how to categorize this one.
- Vince Dooley, hired away and promoted
That's 5 with prior BCS experience, 6 with prior head coaching experience at a lower level, and 3 who had never been a head coach before.
I'm assuming this is usually the goal of a hire at a top school--you want someone that will stay at your school forever and win a ton of games (presumably without embarrassing you too badly). And it's clear from history that that guy doesn't have to have had prior BCS-level coaching experience.
Urban Meyer? Bo Schembechler?
Lessee... some guy named Schembechler coached at Miami, then some guy named Meyer coached at Bowling Green, then some other guy named Hoke coached at Ball State, then some guy named Kelly coached at CMU.
Of those 4 only Bo really counts. Kelly won a Big East title at UC, Brady Hoke turned around a SDSU program that was pretty bad, and Urban Meyer won a BCS bowl at Utah and two national titles at Florida. I don't necesarilly think MAC hires = DOOM(although I was not a huge fan of the Hoke hire at first), but it's probably important to see that a coach has some non-MAC success before bringing him into your major program.
Also from Miami, Woody. The metrics do not back up the overstatements about MAC coaches versus other schools. Of course, the powerhouse is now apparently Arksansas State. Coorinators, small school coaches, etc., have fared well and failed at coaching. And first year failure does not mean continued failure (See Bill Snyder, etc.).
Bielema leaves and some guy turns down Purdue and the sky is falling? Yeesh.
and never being out to Boulder,
Boulder >>> West Lafayette
As a purdue alum Boulder >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
At least west lafayette has dough shack.
Not sure but maybe Colorado will pay more.
Ever been to Boulder?
It's a great town with close proximity to Denver. The skiing and summer trails make Colorado a perfect place for someone with an outdoor lifestyle and a love for scenery.
Would you choose West Lafayette, IN over that? I sure wouldn't.
In Colorado, Jones will have the built-in excuse of having terrible personnel on his team, and will only need to cite this year's record to back his argument. If he even wins 6 games in 2014 or 2015, it will be seen as great progress.
Meanwhile, Purdue probably thinks the next coach should win at least nine games next year. It's not that Colorado is such a great job, but that Purdue is a no-win situation, where the next coach is more likely to get the increasingly-popular "three and out" treatment.
...has Greg Schiano turned down Purdue yet?
Colorado is a bad team, yes, but I'm more enamored with the history there than with Purdue. Colorado is in Colorado, while Purdue is in Indiana. Where is the contest there? Turning around a Colorado team means being a national player. Turning around a Purdue team means going to the Outback Bowl on occasion.
If you are a coach that wants a challenge and potential reward, Colorado offers the greater challenge, but also the greater reward.
Their current roster seems to be about 1/3 kids from CA, so it's not hard to get west coast kids to Boulder. Rashaan Salaam, Darian Hagan and Eric Bienemy were all from CA, so it's not like CU hasn't had good success out there in the past. Boulder isn't that far from AZ, northern TX, Kansas, NEB, or MO, so I think it's a matter of getting the right coach. Embree was in a shitty position, but he had never been a head coach at any level before, and was a very ill-advised hire for CU. If the CU administration wasn't going to be patient enough to let him re-build the program, then they should never have hired him in the first place.
CU has really been snakebit in coaching. After McCartney retired, they hired Rick Neuheisel, who left abruptly after four years for Washington. Then CU hires Gary Barnett, who had worked wonders at Northwestern, and Barnett proceeds to get himself fired after a number of ethical lapses. CU then hires Dan Hawkins, who'd been tearing it up at Boise St., and Hawkins flames out after five terrible seasons. By the end of Hawkins' tenure, I'd have to think that recruiting had gone completely in the dumper, and Embree inherited a dumpster fire.
Neuheisel's departure wasn't really a bad break. Their program was falling apart under his watch.
Was hurting for money badly just a couple years ago. They scheduled a one game contract for a trip to Columbus so they could pocket a million dollars. Supposedly, the reason they didn't fire Hawkins earlier was they couldn't afford to buy him out. After Hawkins they were looking to hire someone for cheap. I think Embree was making less than a million dollars as head coach. Now they moved to the Pac-12 and are starting to see more money come in. If Embree had shown any signs of success of getting the program turned around, he'd probably still be here. He went won 4 games in two years and wasn't even competitive in a lot of the games this year. CU canned him and are now willing to pay well over 7 figures to the new coach.
It is a dumpster fire and the new coach better hope the administrators and fans have some patience.
Colorado is a better job than Purdue. There is really no debating that.
I've never been to West Lafayette, but I've been to Indiana. I'm presently sitting on campus at CU. I would take this over anything in Indiana.
You are right, central Illinois beats hell outta central Indiana
He went 10-2, 10-2, 5-6, and 8-4. I'm not sure that qualifies as "falling apart," but the shit that went on at Washington during his tenure would lead me to think that there was inner rot beginning at Boulder under him.