OT: ASU gets hit mildly hard by NCAA. Good sign or bad sign?
so my late night poking around on espn lead me to finding an article about arkansas st football program and dealing with ineligible players.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6207321
2 points I would like to make here.
1) OSU had ineligible players all year long and they only get 5 game suspensions compared to ASU having all there wins vacated, big fine and a loss of a few scholarships. why so light on OSU?
2) for something that seems big to me, I feel like the ncaa kind of went light on the scholarship part for something like this. i guess I might be me wanting the gauntlet thrown down by the ncaa and kind of hoping it will happen to the OSU.
In return, I now the ncaa really doesn't like anyone who breaks rule 10.1 so I have no worries that something big will happen but my hopes are its not vacated wins and ONE scholarship a year. Im a huge recruiting buff and if they take big action in the scholarship department, I will be one happy dude.
Well thank you for your time men. just found it interesting and i hope you do too. feel free to correct me on any errors I may have.
Your first point is getting two separate instances confused. The Tat-5 got five game suspensions for selling memorabilia. OSU has recommended that Tressel gets two games off the front end of next season for playing ineligible players, the NCAA hasn't ruled on that though.
The other thing is the vacated wins; they're coming as soon as the NCAA rules. I see no possible way OSU keeps the record books from 2010 intact.
You're very correct about 10.1 violations. Whenever the NCAA does rule, I would put money on Tressel losing his job.
well in in the first point I kind of was connecting to the dots to the fact that tressel knew those players would have been ineligible and didn't do anything. kind of was along the same lines in my head. another question and I'm only asking out of the fact I don't know. if there wins get vacated, will that effect our record? I don't think I can say I really want a win for the 2010 game for the fact it wasn't a game I want to remember at this moment.
I see what you did, but we have no way of knowing what the NCAA will rule. The smart money is on a pretty harsh punishment for Tressel, but it's all speculation.
As to your question, no. We won't be 8-5 for last year when (when) they vacate their wins. The only way it makes us look better is that either the record books will either not include 2010 in the records for The Game, or it'll appear with an asterisk. So from the NCAA ruling until November the record will look like:
57-43-6 or
57-44*-6
*OSU has vacated its 2010 win.
After November though, it won't matter because it'll be 58-44*-6.
thank you and I liked what you did there
It's nice to see them squirm. Hopefully Morris and THJ make them feel the same way tomorrow.
As an aside, I can't believe it was Arkansas State, we had a tailback from my high school go there. Probably the only Division 1 signee in...well, a very long time.
I think once the NCAA starts looking into OSU and their program, much much more harsh punishments are coming. The penalties for Tressel and the five players are the penalties that OSU gave them, which of course are a joke. I will burn down the NCAA headquarters if they let OSU off easy on this, they already have some pretty damning evidence against the vest and OSU.
I couldn't even begin to think how pissed off DB would be if they let OSU slide past this, and we get major violations for over stretching and having coaches present when they weren't suppose to. On a scale of 1 to 10, our violations were probably a 3 or 4, maybe not even that high, OSU and their 10.1 violation are probably a solid 9.
DROP THE HAMMER NCAA!
You better make a trip to your local Torch & Pitchfork outlet and stock up. You should never, ever assume that the NCAA is going to make the logical decision.
What if there is a mysterious fire at tOSU's athletic complex and unfortunately there is massive damage to the records storage area? It could happen.
USC suspends it's HC going into a conf tourney game they needed to win as a bubble team DUE TO AN ARGUMENT!!!!
Now I get that USC is trying to clean up it's image, but they suspended their coach for the entire PAC 10 tournament because their coach got into a verbal altercation with a fan. Turns out to be one-and-done, but they didn't know that going in. And they did it at the most critical juncture of their season with a lot on the line. Does that send a message?
OSU suspends Tressel for one more game than Kevin O'Neill and it comes during the easiest part of their schedule ... and for playing kids all year that should not have been playing ... and he lied about ... several times ... representing that school in Ohio ...
When was the last time you could say that USC's ethics clearly outshone OSU's???????
The NCAA is going to hammer Ohio State. It's going to be ugly...
The first NCAA ruling/punishment on the five players was based on the principle that the university didn't know about it, and thus did nothing wrong in playing them all season.
But now it's clear the university did know about it (Tressel is a representative of the university -- if he knew, the university knew), and well before the season began. I'm not sure what should and/or shouldn't have happened given the FBI involvement and all, but something should have happened.
I seriously doubt the fire will spread beyond this case, but that should be enough -- "failure to promote an atmosphere of compliance" is on the table. The real question is what did he do with the information? Did he really do nothing? Or did he talk to the players? Are they lying for him?
The former Okie State WR lost a whole year for lying to the NCAA about his relationship with Prime Time. To me that is the bare minimum for the Vest. Then what does the NCAA do about knowingly playing players who were involved in activities that would make them ineligible. Signing paperwork that he knew was blatantly false verify the program being clean despite direct knowledge otherwise. Supposedly lying to his bosses who then lied in a press conference (if they knew-debatable) that the school had no knowledge.
Its Hammer time!
I don't think OSU fires Tressel unless the NCAA turns up more dirt, or the NCAA effectively orders it. How can Smith fire him after that press conference? You think Gee wants to lose his job too? No, OSU has already declared where they are on that score.
Apologies for forgetting whose argument it is, but one of our intrepid posters has noted multiple times that OSU was in contact with the NCAA during the process. That suggests that OSU got some indication from the NCAA on the level of punishment. That is disturbing, though I can't believe that the NCAA is ok with it. So, I reason that the NCAA's participation was more a description of where to send the documents, what font type should be used for the brief, etc.
I got a little grief earlier from suggesting the Michigan-OSU 2010 game wasn't a U of M loss. I'm not pining for a little better gloss for us. I just want to see how many gold pants get turned back in. And if somehow, OSU's streak against the SEC is back on, hardi-har-har.
March 12th, 2011 at 11:13 AM ^
The NCAA will probably force them to fire Tressel. Every single coach who has been found guilty of lying to the NCAA has received a show-cause penalty, and this is a very unusual case because it's so black and white. They might not rule until after the 2011 season, but I can't see any way Tressel is on the sidelines for 2012.
I wonder if a school has ever been punished specifically for the insulting nature of their self-imposed punishment.
- suspending the coach for the 2 games they don't need him
- extorting their best players into coming back for another year, arguably hurting their NFL draft potential and definitely benefiting the school
This thread has completely laid out the conflicting emotions that I've had over this situation. For all the cheating that OSU has done, I'd like to see swift and just punishment. Hell, I actually don't care if it's swift, even. The wait can sometimes hurt just as bad.
- For OSU (Tressel=representative) to hide this from the NCAA, I would expect the NCAA to HAMMER them for this.
- For a laughable, insulting self-imposed punishment, I would expect the NCAA to HAMMER them for this.
- For the additional 375 self-reported infractions, expect the NCAA to HAMMER them for this.
HOWEVER, this is OSU we're talking about. Something tells me I shouldn't get my hopes up. Argghhhhh...
March 12th, 2011 at 10:11 AM ^
Remember the 1st meeting was on Osu's terms meaning they were self reporting what they just found out, turning it over to the ncaa and recommending punishment...... At that time the ncaa was still trying to preserve the sugarbowl so they gave a harsher 5 game suspension and let the tat5 play in the bcs game.....
Now, after the fact it comes out, we all know Tressel lied, covered it up, signed the documents stating no violations, lied again to osu and then ncaa about time frame and where the tip came from.....
Punishment....
2010 wins imo have to be vacated, and if now proven these players commited these actions at all during the 2009 season even those wins should be vacated.....and bcs bowl money as well......
Tressel.. 2 games...not near enough... remember bruce pearl lost 8 sec bball games almost half the confrence schedule for lying to the ncaa... Bryant lost his season for lying and not even haven broken a rule...... Tressel imo this looks like an antonio bryant suspension is coming.....
Probation.... given, likely 3 to 5yrs for this one...
Scholarships ..... unknown... usc lost 30 over 3yrs ie 10 a yr for 3yrs.... for an assistant coach that covered up reggie bush taking extra benefits.... what happens here?
March 12th, 2011 at 11:16 AM ^
...and the party never ends.
The longer this "party" lasts, the more disruptive it will be for recruiting and all things TSIO. I agree with those who feel TSIO will Scarlet Wall their way through this process as USC did. They will profess innocence and ignorance, and will accept absolutely no responsibility for anything they did.
When they get punished by the NCAA, they will complain, as USC did, that the punishment is too harsh. At TSIO, as at USC, mea culpas are for the "little people." They continue to believe that they are beyond the law, or at least bigger than the NCAA.
My cyncism toward the NCAA leads me to believe that the disruption will be worth more than the "punishment" that is eventually handed down. IMO, the best we can hope for is fifteen months or so of seeing or hearing the words "currently under NCAA investigation" every time the MSM mentions "the Ohio State University."
As in, "the Ohio State University, currently under NCAA investigation, blah blah blah blah..."
Remember: you can't spell "NCAA investigation" without the "vest."
March 12th, 2011 at 11:36 AM ^
Learn that there are multiple words that sound the same but are not spelled the same and MEAN DIFFERENT THINGS.
Thank You.